Strange off lead dog encounter

[LolaNH123]

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I'm quite confused about what happened here. It started with me walking my dog offlead in some woods. A black Labrador runs into the path and lies down when he sees my dog and stares at her.

My dog approached the lab and at first everything seemed fine - they were both sniffing each others rear ends and circling round.

But then they stop sniffing and the lab goes very tense and so does my dog. I call my dog (not sure if that was the right thing to do) and she starts coming over to me fairly slowly. When she is halfway, the lab runs at her then gets on top of her and growls.

He did get off her and at that point I grabbed my dog and tried to shoo the lab away (still no owner in sight!). He started staring at my dog and barking quite aggressively. Then I put my dog behind me so he can't get to her and he growls at me and jumps to bite me but I swung away so he couldn't.

He barks and growls at my dog again but here's the weird part... he sniffs her rear end and all of a sudden goes all loose with his tail wagging. Then he starts nibbling and licking my dogs bum WTF?! I pull her away and he starts chasing her/ barking and at that point the owner finally arrives and the dog runs back to her. She then drags him away by his collar with two feet off the ground (horrible).

This encounter was so weird and quite scary, does anyone know what this dog was doing?

 

[JudyN]

The lab sounds like he had a lot of insecurity, and the way the owner handled him won't be helping. Sometimes a dog that is lacking in confidence will try to make out that they're big and brave and fierce. Did you have a feel for how old he was? Think of teenage lads in a gang meeting another teenogre who might easily turn out to be friend or foe...

The fact that he started off by lying down and staring at your dog suggests that he was worried from the start. Now, it's possible that your dog gave off a vibe he didn't like. Some dogs find black dogs with dark eyes unnerving as they can't see their eyes properly, or she may simply have objected to his attentions. Dog body language can be so subtle and fleeting that things can escalate in a blink of an eye, and without a slow-mo replay from the ideal angles, we mere humans just can't see what happened or 'who started it'.

 

[LolaNH123]

The lab sounds like he had a lot of insecurity, and the way the owner handled him won't be helping. Sometimes a dog that is lacking in confidence will try to make out that they're big and brave and fierce. Did you have a feel for how old he was? Think of teenage lads in a gang meeting another teenogre who might easily turn out to be friend or foe...

The fact that he started off by lying down and staring at your dog suggests that he was worried from the start. Now, it's possible that your dog gave off a vibe he didn't like. Some dogs find black dogs with dark eyes unnerving as they can't see their eyes properly, or she may simply have objected to his attentions. Dog body language can be so subtle and fleeting that things can escalate in a blink of an eye, and without a slow-mo replay from the ideal angles, we mere humans just can't see what happened or 'who started it'.

Thanks for your reply! Yeah he did seem like a young dog, maybe still a teenager. How do you think I could have handled the situation differently?

 

[JoanneF]

The only thing I'd have done differently is I don't let my dog approach strange dogs. You sometimes can't predict how they will behave, so I personally prefer to just avoid where possible.

 

[Hemlock]

I agree. If I saw an approaching dog that wasn't being controlled by its owner - which is most of them - I would put my dog/s to heel on the furthest side of me and give the unknown dog a wide berth, using my body to block the approaching dog's line of sight. The owner is obviously a (insert words of choice) or they wouldn't be letting their dog approach without an "okay" from the other owner (in this case, me). Dogs should absolutely NOT ever be allowed to hassle other dogs, and all dogs are dodgy until we know they aren't.

Bumptious male labradors are high on my list of dogs I avoid. If they aren't trying to hassle other dogs, they are trying to blat into humans. I'm too frail these days to want to handle five stone of dog trying to knock me over.

 

[JudyN]

I agree with Joanne and Hemlock. As you've seen, things can go wrong very quickly.

 

[Hanne]

This seems like an extreme situation with the dog threatening you as well! What others do we can't control ...But its surprising that so many dog owner walk with a smartphone in one hand and an "empty" leash in the other, dog running 100 meters behind or in front of them.
I never knew that black labradors might seem scary to other dogs. They are immensely popular here. (Rotterdam, Netherlands)

 

[JoanneF]

I think it's not specifically labradors (they are very popular here too) but any black dogs. The lack of contrast in the colouring makes their faces harder to read.

 

[CoCo2014]

Are you sure the other dog was being aggressive, growling is not aggression it's a sign of the dog being uncomfortable & possibly fearful. If the dog was young, he could have been being a typical uncouth juvenile Labrador.
Juvenile Labradors can be very "uncouth"& OTT with other dogs & people. They need continuous training in "manners"until safely through puberty

 

[Hemlock]

I agree - it's a bit like teenage boys mouthing off.

The lying down is uncertainty - specifically keeping the guts safe - then a rush of brashness causes the stand up and charge.

 

[Feverfew]

It's a very interesting description and I agree that the unfamiliar dog who you encountered sounds insecure but not aggressive (true aggression is extremely rare).
I can see that this was a scary encounter for you, but it does sound as if your own dog is pretty skilful and able to defuse the situation, which in 99.9% of cases, all any dog wants to do, rather than risking a confrontation.

What I would have done differently is not to call my dog away, because this meant she turned her back on the unfamiliar dog, who then took his chance to bundle her from behind. Attacking from behind is quite common in insecure dogs, so I would say try to avoid putting your dog in a situation when she is obliged to take her eyes away from a threat.

Unfortunately, the situation escalated from there, by the sound of it. Although it is very hard to do, and it takes a lot of practice, minimal human intervention really does help - by which I don't mean just leaving it up to the dogs to sort it out. What you did do well was to get between your dog and the other dog, but you need to do this in an assertive but non confrontational way, and to do it without commanding or touching your own dog. This act of quietly 'splitting' by stepping 'in between' is something dogs do skilfully all the time, and the skill is all in doing it using your body, not your voice. Keep doing it until the unfamiliar dog gets the message. Keep your eye on the dog, but not through direct eye contact.

You can also, in general, turn side on to any dog that appears directly in your path or, better still, choose another path or walk in a curve around the approaching unfamiliar dog. Again, this is something that all dogs do naturally, until humans come and mess it up by walking dogs directly towards each other, or expecting dogs to be friends with every dog they meet, as this owner may have done. Of course, in this case, the owner should have had the dog you met on a lead, because he's a danger to himself and others if he hasn't yet reached the stage of being able to negotiate such encounters sensibly.

Many, many years of observation tell me that dogs do not want to get close up to dogs they do not know. This is simply their survival instinct. If they do encounter an unfamiliar dog, the most skilful dogs will acknowledge their presence politely (eg, blink, lip lick, dip head, turn away) and move on. Not always easy when there are so many dogs around, but certainly something to be encouraged by owners by in general respecting other dogs' space, and not being too quick to step in if things get a bit tense, but letting things play out a little bit, and quietly helping if necessary.

 

[LolaNH123]

Update: IT HAPPENED AGAIN! I don't know if I'm looking for advice I just need to vent. So I thought I would never see this lab again because I had never seen it before until the other day.

But today I was walking along the path with my dog on a lead and I see the lab (off lead) and it's owner come through the gate - about 50 metres away. I immediately turn away with my dog and walk in the other direction.

They start to walk in my direction and then I hear the woman shouting 'LOTTIE'. So turns out it is a female dog, not sure why I assumed she was a boy.

Then I glance back and the lab is hurtling towards me and my dog. She reaches us and starts sniffing my dog and just like last time- it all seems fine at first, they are both circling round and sniffing each other.

Then the lab stops and starts barking with a wide stance, circling round us. I yell at the woman to get her dog, who by the way is just walking slowly over to us and shouting the dogs name. The lab stares at me and once again snaps up to bite my hand, but my dog got her away by lunging at her.

The owner eventually comes to get her dog and just acts like nothing happens and puts it on a lead. She apologized but I was livid, I told her to keep her dog on a lead and that she had tried to bite me twice aswell. She said nothing and walked off.

My guess is that the lab gets frustrated and becomes reactive (towards me and my dog) when the other dog is restrained. As the first time I grabbed my dogs collar and the second time she was on a lead.

I am pretty annoyed about this woman, she seems so irresponsible. The first time she was nowhere to be seen and the second time she didn't even try to get her dog. Anyway why is she letting a dog with no recall (especially a reactive one) off lead?!

 

[JudyN]

That's definitely unacceptable behaviour.

Sometimes, there is something about a dog that smells 'different' to other dogs so they respond in ways they wouldn't normally, so it's just possible that the lab isn't like this with other dogs. There was one male schnauzer that Jasper would follow around like a lovelorn teenager and occasionally try to hump, and his owner said that a lot of other dogs seemed to be attracted to him. And on one occasion, when he was younger and 'selectively reactive', he went for an old doddery lab on lead, which completely shocked me - I got a mouthful of abuse from the owner and can't say I blame them one bit.

Not that there's any excuse for the owner's attitude, of course.

 

[Hemlock]

To explain the 'doddery old lab' incident - dogs are not politically correct, and it is normal with social species to target and drive off or even kill another that is "weak" because such animals attract predators. Old animals are often ill and smell of their illness, and if on medication, smell peculiar from that as well. This attacking behaviour from the healthy towards the ill is not bad or wrong - it is a deeply rooted primitive instinct, and people do it too unless/until they are taught better ways. This is why it is not uncommon for certain people to be targeted by certain other people, beaten up, robbed and sometimes even killed. And the school playground is a bear pit unless properly supervised.

 

[JoanneF]

I think it would be a good idea to report this to your local dog warden. They may not do anything - in fact, they probably won't; but if there is a pattern they will be able to start building a picture to recognise that. It's possible, or even probable, that your dog isn't the only victim.

 

[Feverfew]

Update: IT HAPPENED AGAIN! I don't know if I'm looking for advice I just need to vent. So I thought I would never see this lab again because I had never seen it before until the other day.

But today I was walking along the path with my dog on a lead and I see the lab (off lead) and it's owner come through the gate - about 50 metres away. I immediately turn away with my dog and walk in the other direction.

They start to walk in my direction and then I hear the woman shouting 'LOTTIE'. So turns out it is a female dog, not sure why I assumed she was a boy.

Then I glance back and the lab is hurtling towards me and my dog. She reaches us and starts sniffing my dog and just like last time- it all seems fine at first, they are both circling round and sniffing each other.

Then the lab stops and starts barking with a wide stance, circling round us. I yell at the woman to get her dog, who by the way is just walking slowly over to us and shouting the dogs name. The lab stares at me and once again snaps up to bite my hand, but my dog got her away by lunging at her.

The owner eventually comes to get her dog and just acts like nothing happens and puts it on a lead. She apologized but I was livid, I told her to keep her dog on a lead and that she had tried to bite me twice aswell. She said nothing and walked off.

My guess is that the lab gets frustrated and becomes reactive (towards me and my dog) when the other dog is restrained. As the first time I grabbed my dogs collar and the second time she was on a lead.

I am pretty annoyed about this woman, she seems so irresponsible. The first time she was nowhere to be seen and the second time she didn't even try to get her dog. Anyway why is she letting a dog with no recall (especially a reactive one) off lead?!

Dear me! That is very unfortunate, I'm so sorry to hear that happened to you. I wonder if you might consider reporting these incidents to the local dog warden or PCSO? Incidents with dogs are taken seriously these days.

I agree that the Labrador seems to be triggered by your dog being restrained, but it might be more a question of quick movements, shouting and strong emotions. It is very, very difficult for anyone to contain their response when they are faced with a situation like this, so I completely sympathise, but if you can stay calm and not make quick movements if you do encounter her again, it may help to prevent the situation escalating, though these two dogs have a history now, which makes it more difficult for them to move on.

I would also say, if you can avoid turning your own dog's back towards the other dog, it can help, as I think from what you say, the Labrador came from behind again. It sounds very much as if she can initiate a greeting (bum sniffing, circling) but can't end it, which is pretty common in unskilled dogs. Like not being able to end a conversation with your neighbour when they are telling you their life story! So don't prolong the initial greeting if you can avoid it - step quietly in between, then extend the distance between you and the dog if you can, and step behind a barrier such as a tree or bench.

All very difficult, I know, because dogs are so much faster at reading situations than we are, but I hope some of this is helpful. I hope even more that you don't encounter this owner again!

 

[JudyN]

To explain the 'doddery old lab' incident - dogs are not politically correct, and it is normal with social species to target and drive off or even kill another that is "weak" because such animals attract predators. Old animals are often ill and smell of their illness, and if on medication, smell peculiar from that as well. This attacking behaviour from the healthy towards the ill is not bad or wrong - it is a deeply rooted primitive instinct, and people do it too unless/until they are taught better ways. This is why it is not uncommon for certain people to be targeted by certain other people, beaten up, robbed and sometimes even killed. And the school playground is a bear pit unless properly supervised.

I can see that makes sense - though I'd seen Jasper interact with a whole range of dogs, doddery and otherwise, and for him, this was uncharacteristic. so I'm putting it down to something to do with the body chemistry of the other dog.