Fake assistance dogs?

I don't think either of my boys would enter Wetherspoons. They have their standards too! But isn't it strange how some of the grisliest establishments ban dogs when some quite posh ones welcome them?

arealhuman said:

I've never heard that before @Nanny71

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Nor had I, but since they bought the pushchair the poor dog doesn't get to walk anywhere

Dudley is coming to an Elvis tribute tonight in our local, very dog friendly, pub. Dont know what he will make of The King but lots of his doggy friends will also be there

Will they play Ain't Nothin' But a Hound Dog for him?

merlina said:

Will they play Ain't Nothin' But a Hound Dog for him?

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We didn't stay until the end. He was very good I enjoyed it. Dudley was very well behaved despite the pub being really full. I wasn't sure how he would be with it being so crowded' When we go in the mornings for coffee there are only a few people (and dogs) there.
We don't intentionally avoid crowded places but I am aware that he is only small and being surrounded by legs may be a bit overwhelming

Nanny71 said:

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We don't intentionally avoid crowded places, but I'm aware that he's only small, & being surrounded by legs may be a bit overwhelming.

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Suggestion:
park him under yer chair or bench-seat, or behind, between, or in front of yer own legs, as a protective barrier.
then he can't be trodden on, accidentally kicked as someone gets up / changes position / sits down, etc - or at least, it can't happen as easily.

- terry

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I have been able to get into a lot of non-dog friendly places with Olive due to her having her harness. but i disagree with fakes

Most of the small shops I have come across in my area , newsagents, co, op etc have signs on the front doors that tell people that dogs aren't allowed. It doesn't stop some people ignoring the signs and walking in with their pets anyway. When I collect my pup, the best I will be able to do to socialise her in our world, is to stand outside shops waiting for my partner to get whatever it is we need. I will do that because it's the law, I can't believe how some people can be so selfish.

We must have more places that allow dogs though

Dami said:

Most of the small shops I have come across in my area , newsagents, co, op etc have signs on the front doors that tell people that dogs aren't allowed. It doesn't stop some people ignoring the signs and walking in with their pets anyway. When I collect my pup, the best I will be able to do to socialise her in our world, is to stand outside shops waiting for my partner to get whatever it is we need. I will do that because it's the law, I can't believe how some people can be so selfish.

We must have more places that allow dogs though

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That's unlucky - the only shop in the village where I live that doesn't allow dogs is the Co-op convenience store. None of the others have a problem.

I always stick my head round the door and ask if dogs are OK. Small independents that seemingly don't allow dogs will often make an exception for a pup in arms. Harri has got into many - looking like a teddy bear works to his advantage and few can resist him! He now has a pass into quite a few shops where they don't officially allow dogs

Nanny71 said:

We didn't stay until the end. He was very good I enjoyed it. Dudley was very well behaved despite the pub being really full. I wasn't sure how he would be with it being so crowded' When we go in the mornings for coffee there are only a few people (and dogs) there.
We don't intentionally avoid crowded places but I am aware that he is only small and being surrounded by legs may be a bit overwhelming

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Harri had his first experience of a crowd at an event of Caerphilly Castle - he handled it really well. He did jump when a small child came up behind him and enveloped him in a bear hug though. Why do parents let their children do that? Harri is a sweetheart and just rolled with it but the child and the parents (who were watching fondly) didn't know that.

I get this a lot when i have Olive with me, 'Can i stroke your dog?' This is very annoying and I'm training Olive at the minute as an ESA, with help of a trainer. When she obviously has a harness on with 'Dog In Training do not touch on!. I really also dislike when companies ask why i have her, what my disability is ect. very annoying.

Violet Turner said:

I get this a lot when i have Olive with me, 'Can i stroke your dog?'

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Be thankful they ask first!

"Most of the small shops I have come across in my area , newsagents, co, op etc have signs on the front doors that tell people that dogs aren't allowed. It doesn't stop some people ignoring the signs and walking in with their pets anyway. When I collect my pup, the best I will be able to do to socialise her in our world, is to stand outside shops waiting for my partner to get whatever it is we need. I will do that because it's the law, I can't believe how some people can be so selfish."

I know this is what many people believe. But it isn't the law! that's the problem- so you are at liberty to say to the business owner that if they don't want your custom, that's up to them. You'll spend your money elsewhere. If enough dog owners pointed this out things would be a lot easier.

arealhuman said:

Be thankful they ask first!

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But not the kids they just run up and get Olives attention at the minute Olive is really good as she watches me the whole time and ignores the children, even a man came over today in the shop and just didnt stop stroking her and i obiosly explained and he eventualy stopped.

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If i'm not mistaken, independent shop-owners in the UK do have the option to ban dogs? - but if they don't post that as a notice, they can't ban a random dog who hasn't caused any grief, & no-one can legally prevent an Assistance Dog from entering with their disabled handler.
HOWEVER - if said Assistance Dog causes trouble for the owner of the shop [damages goods for sale, lifts his leg on furnishings, poops on the floor...] or causes problems for other customers [threatens ppl, jumps up on them, barks at them...], the shop-owner is within their rights to tell the disabled person to remove the dog, & they can come back in without their dog to finish their business.

If the shop is part of a chain, their policy re pet dogs on leash should be set by the chain's HQ, & if the HQ policy is to allow well-behaved dogs, the sole exceptions would be those shops owned by someone who's literally allergic to dogs - their dander, saliva, etc.

Sadly, in the USA, practically all commercial places refuse to admit dogs as a blanket policy; the exceptions are dog-based businesses, such as pet supplies, grooming salons, etc, or places such as Feed N Seed or hardware stores, where there's little that a dog might conceivably damage.
This blanket ban makes it hard to get dogs well-socialized & well-trained, particularly around food in public - *some* cafes with fenced sidewalk or patio areas are dog-friendly, & some bars that have outdoor serving space, but indoors is mostly closed to dogs other than SDs [service dogs with their disabled handlers, or SDiTs - SDs in training, with their trainers].
That makes training around "food in public" almost-exclusively a summertime activity, as it's too damn cold to sit outside from Nov - May in much of the U-S.

The laws regarding SDiTs vary across the states - some permit dogs-in-training with their trainers, so long as they are well-behaved; other states don't permit them until they're fully-trained & actually working with a disabled handler, which kinda begs the Q of how to get the trainee "fully trained".
Restaurants & anywhere that serves, sells, or prepares food are legally required to disallow ALL dogs except working SDs accompanying a disabled handler. // U can sometimes get permission from the Mgmt to bring in an SDiT, by phoning ahead & begging shamelessly - i've done that.
In which case, yer trainee had better be good while on the premises! - or U'll scotch it for yer own future trainees, plus everyone else whose dog is still learning.

I was especially frustrated by Amtrak's blanket ban on all dogs other than "fully-trained & working SDs with their disabled handlers" on all passenger-trains. // I asked the Amtrak rep over the phone how we're supposed to train dogs to get onto & off trains, navigate crowded platforms, get under the seat so as not to block the aisle, settle & ignore the noise of wheels, track, whistles, crossing signals, etc, & she replied that was our problem, as trainers - not Amtrak's. Gee, thanks for clarifying.
I'll just run out & build a dummy train, life-size, with clickety-clack tracks, full sound effects, & 60-mph movement, plus passengers stepping over the dog, playing kissy-face, eating, arguing, kids running in the aisle, etc, for realism.

- terry

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In the Uk there is not a law saying no dogs in shops, it is up to the shop owners or the 'store' makes the policy. The Isle of Wight is a nice place to visit with a dog, a lot of their shops, cafes etc don't mind our canine friends.

Today I got denied in ASDA, the security guard said Olive wasn't allowed in and the harness and lead wasn't real, I get very annoyed with people who are not educated about SD's and ESA's because it does make me more anxious being asked to leave when I step in the door. But I understand so I put olive outside lead, I made a knot that no one could get her off so she was safe. Does anyone on the Dog Forum have a SD or ESA or Guide Dog?

Violet Turner said:

I made a knot that no one could get her off so she was safe.

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Out of curiosity, if no one could undo the knot to steal her, how did you undo it when you'd finished shopping?

How do you get a dog accepted as a service dog? Is there a scheme whereby you can have it documented to show to any staff who challenge you?

I often have the opposite problem - I'll peer round the doorway of a shop full of nice shiny pretty things, or go in leaving OH outside with Jasper and the shop assistant will tell me that Jasper can come in. I look at the height of the displays and all the breakable items and tell them that no, that would be a really bad idea. One friendly wag of that tail and it would be a very expensive shopping trip

JudyN said:

How do you get a dog accepted as a service dog? Is there a scheme whereby you can have it documented to show to any staff who challenge you?

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As I understand it, there isn't a good scheme in the UK. I believe you can have your dog added to a register (for a fee of course) but it isn't formally recognised and you could probably get Monty on it! And because of that it is obviously open to abuse and as a consequence treated with suspicion by organisations that even know about it. Which sort of brings us back to how this thread started.

JoanneF said:

As I understand it, there isn't a good scheme in the UK. I believe you can have your dog added to a register (for a fee of course) but it isn't formally recognised and you could probably get Monty on it! And because of that it is obviously open to abuse and as a consequence treated with suspicion by organisations that even know about it. Which sort of brings us back to how this thread started.

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^^^this was exactly what my point was. There are websites selling service dog vests and harnesses to anyone who cares to pay for them and because in many countries there is no clear regulation regarding service dogs it is a system open to abuse .. Just when disabled people were starting to gain ground and become accepted selifish people come along and ruin it.