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Biting...aggression or just wilful at 11months

Bonnies mum

Bonnies mum

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Hi my dog Bonnie is almost 1, she is a shitzu Yorkshire cross and a very friendly, sociable and playful dog but she is still mouthing occasionally and will launch at our hands to play. If we try to stop her she gets carried away and bites/mouths. Also if I try and stop her from doing something she wants she do or get her to do something she doesn’t want to do she can get a bit bitey i.e getting her off the sofa to go to bed. I know I need to take her to more training as I fear she is ruling the roost but is this aggression naughtiness or is she just wilful? Oh one more thing...why does she not like having a coat or a harness on. If I manage to get them on she gets cross when I try and take them off!!!!
 
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She sounds similar to my dog when he was young. It's like a child having a temper tantrum when they can't get their own way or they don't want to have their shoes put on!

For the biting/mouthing - when she does this, stop playing, turn and walk away. Don't say anything, just keep really calm. The message is that when she mouthes, the fun stops and you become boring. I found it useful to have a stairgate so I could leave the room and stop my dog following me and carrying on mouthing. If you do this you only have to wait, say, 10 seconds before going back in again but if she goes back to mouthing, do it again... and again... and again... You have to be really consistent but it will work eventually (beware the extinction burst - she might be annoyed at you leaving and get worse before she gets better).

For things like getting off the sofa, don't physically remove her, but train a really good 'off' command. Start this like a game - teach her to jump on to the sofa by luring with a treat, then the same to get off - but the treat for getting off could be higher value than that for getting on. Make her think that getting off the sofa when asked is a really great thing to do nad not something to be resisted. For those times when she may be reluctant, like at bedtime, and before this is fully trained, don't be afraid to be sneaky - go to the kitchen, open and shut the fridge door, then call her in your happy voice and give her a reward when she comes. Or teach her hide and seek with a toy and when you want her off the sofa, hide the toy and say 'Find it!' By changing things round in this way so she wants to do what you want her to do, she'll be happier, more relaxed, and more compliant. I think asking our dogs to do things they don't want to do can result almost in oppositional defiant disorder where whatever you ask them they'll think 'Do I really want to?' rather than 'Woo hoo!'

I wonder if the harness is uncomfortable for her at all? Or she could just not like being handled that much. You could do a little 'harness practice' where you just do one bit of it, e.g. put it over her head, praise her and give her a treat, and then take it off and again, praise and treat. Build up gradually to having the whole thing on and off. If she doesn't like putting her head through, or there are a few clips, you might want to look at different harnessess - with my dog we changed from a 'head in' harness to a 'step in' one. It also helped to effectively let him take it off - as he didn't like it being pulled off over his head, we'd hold the harness, ask him to go 'back' (taught separately) and he would back out it it, which he was happier with.

Finally, have a look at a video called 'It's Yer Choice' on Youtube, which helps dogs deal with frustrations and control themselves when asked.

Hope that helps - ask away if you want to know more about teaching things like hide & seek or 'back'.
 
JudyN said:
She sounds similar to my dog when he was young. It's like a child having a temper tantrum when they can't get their own way or they don't want to have their shoes put on!

For the biting/mouthing - when she does this, stop playing, turn and walk away. Don't say anything, just keep really calm. The message is that when she mouthes, the fun stops and you become boring. I found it useful to have a stairgate so I could leave the room and stop my dog following me and carrying on mouthing. If you do this you only have to wait, say, 10 seconds before going back in again but if she goes back to mouthing, do it again... and again... and again... You have to be really consistent but it will work eventually (beware the extinction burst - she might be annoyed at you leaving and get worse before she gets better).

For things like getting off the sofa, don't physically remove her, but train a really good 'off' command. Start this like a game - teach her to jump on to the sofa by luring with a treat, then the same to get off - but the treat for getting off could be higher value than that for getting on. Make her think that getting off the sofa when asked is a really great thing to do nad not something to be resisted. For those times when she may be reluctant, like at bedtime, and before this is fully trained, don't be afraid to be sneaky - go to the kitchen, open and shut the fridge door, then call her in your happy voice and give her a reward when she comes. Or teach her hide and seek with a toy and when you want her off the sofa, hide the toy and say 'Find it!' By changing things round in this way so she wants to do what you want her to do, she'll be happier, more relaxed, and more compliant. I think asking our dogs to do things they don't want to do can result almost in oppositional defiant disorder where whatever you ask them they'll think 'Do I really want to?' rather than 'Woo hoo!'

I wonder if the harness is uncomfortable for her at all? Or she could just not like being handled that much. You could do a little 'harness practice' where you just do one bit of it, e.g. put it over her head, praise her and give her a treat, and then take it off and again, praise and treat. Build up gradually to having the whole thing on and off. If she doesn't like putting her head through, or there are a few clips, you might want to look at different harnessess - with my dog we changed from a 'head in' harness to a 'step in' one. It also helped to effectively let him take it off - as he didn't like it being pulled off over his head, we'd hold the harness, ask him to go 'back' (taught separately) and he would back out it it, which he was happier with.

Finally, have a look at a video called 'It's Yer Choice' on Youtube, which helps dogs deal with frustrations and control themselves when asked.

Hope that helps - ask away if you want to know more about teaching things like hide & seek or 'back'.
Click to expand...

Thanks Judy this is great stuff. i watched the video, she has already learnt the leave it but reckon she could do with stepping it up a little and adopting more control. Don't suppose you could help me with another problem? Bonnie is very demanding when she wants attention and or wants to play and will do the 'I want attention bark'. At the moment, I either walk away and ignore her or if I am watching the tele I will shout at her to be quiet. She really does pick her moments ha ha. I know this isn't right but her bark is piercing and it's so frustrating when I am getting into a programme so look for a quick fix. However, I worry that ignoring her pleas for attention or telling her off hinders me trying to get her to let me know she wants to go outside to do her business. House training has been slow as I trained her through the summer with the back door open. I have been obsessive with taking her out since young pup and she'll wee on demand so she knows where to do her business but she is subtle when asking and she'll just stand at the back door. Occassionaly we miss this and find a wee in the living room
 
Attention barking and requests to go outside aren't things I've had much experience of, but...

Certainly shouting at her to be quiet won't help - she's getting attention, which is the result she wanted even if it's not quite the sort of attention she was hoping for. There's advice on teaching your dog to relax here, which might help: Teach Your Dog to Relax on Cue This one looks good too: Teaching your dog to settle down And of course, it's important that she gets enough physical exercise and mental stimulation at other times so she's not buzzing with excess energy (of course, some dogs seem to be buzzing almost all the time!). It's all about teaching her that there are times when you are not available to give her attention, and getting her to accept that.

If she stands at the back door when she wants to go out, that's a good start. Does she just stand there silently? Or when she barks, does she ever need to go out? The more you can recognise the pattern, the better.

My dog would stand silently by the back door as a pup. When I saw him there, I'd put my hand on the door handle but not do anything. He'd look at me, wondering why I wasn't opening the door, and then he'd whine quietly. I'd praise him, and open the door. Once he realised that making a sound opened the door, I was able to wait for a louder sound each time until one day he decided to turn the whine into a bark, so we were then able to hear him when we were in a different room. This worked brilliantly for us, but of course every dog is different. It might help if you first teach Bonnie to bark on command, then when she's standing silently by the door you could ask for a bark and then open the door. With luck she'll start using the bark without being asked.

Having trained a bark, it then becomes possible to train a dog to stop barking on command, which may be useful. I've never tried it myself though.

Some people teach their dogs to ring a bell by the back door to ask to go out - to me, using a bark seems simpler, but you might want to try - there will be lots of advice online for how to teach this.
 
@Bonnies mum - I feel your pain right now and ours is 7 months and built like a bull already. I read on another dog site (and will give it ago at the time of his next episode... hoping there isn't one!!) that when you note the switch-up i.e the glint in his eye where you look tastier than the play toy, make sure he already has a loose collar on and gently escort him to the nearest room i.e a downstairs toilet. Keep the light off and place him in there for 30-40 seconds - but walk away so he cannot smell you. Keep the dog shut. Come back, let him back out (again no noise) nice and calmly and go back to where you left off i.e start engaging / playing with him again. You have to catch these negative behaviors right at the start as punishment after i.e 10 minutes after he has done a poo in your living - the dog just won't get it.

Last night we had a similar switch-up to you (usually its towards my boyfriend) and we took a different approach: he was happily playing tug with my boyfriend and he just fixated on me mid-play and wanted to hump, jump, bite and nibble me - eventually barking as he wasn't getting an engagement from me... I walked away ignoring him but with that he lept up and bit my bum... we have a metal choke-chain large (maybe you should get the smallest from Pets @ Home as I note he looks like a small terrier) and my boyfriend got that, banged it on the kitchen counter, attached it to his collar and pulled quite fiercely a few times and said no I am the Boss here (maybe a bit more of a subtle approach considering yours is not the size of a horse like mine)... I too told him off - make sure it just isn't one-sided if you and others are in the room. They need to see they EVERYONE does not approve of the behavior...and I would like to say he really knew he was Boss at that moment in time and the switch-up immediately calmed and almost instantly we had puppy eyes - especially at me, and a sulking slouch on the sofa.

Everything's worth a try when they are this age.
 
JessandJackson said:
we have a metal choke-chain large (maybe you should get the smallest from Pets @ Home as I note he looks like a small terrier) and my boyfriend got that, banged it on the kitchen counter, attached it to his collar and pulled quite fiercely a few times and said no I am the Boss
Click to expand...

Personally I think that sort of approach could go very badly with some dogs - if you take such a confrontational approach, then a dog who has already shown signs of tantrums could well respond in similar vein. You could also make them scared of the choke chain and resist that too. The idea that you have to reinforce that you are boss is outdated and based on poor science.

Just my opinion though, having a dog who could well have ended up being euthanased if I'd used that sort of approach.
 
JudyN said:
Personally I think that sort of approach could go very badly with some dogs - if you take such a confrontational approach, then a dog who has already shown signs of tantrums could well respond in similar vein. You could also make them scared of the choke chain and resist that too. The idea that you have to reinforce that you are boss is outdated and based on poor science.

Just my opinion though, having a dog who could well have ended up being euthanased if I'd used that sort of approach.
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Sure - I get that. So she should/could try the first option of the bathroom.

We aren't confrontational with that we are calm, stern and assertive.
 
Only positive reinforced training here ...dogs dont do things on purpose or knowingly soil the house ...
And to yank a dog with a choke chain is a no no IMO ...dominant /boss training is outdated and can make a young dog fearful ...i have 2 fearful rescues and they are not easy but it is not their fault it is what happened to them before they were rescued ....
 
Kara 1 said:
it is not their fault it is what happened to them before they were rescued ....
Click to expand...

And of couse, even if the dog has had the best of backgrounds, it's not his fault if he still reacts badly to certain situations - it's simply written in his genes, and dogs don't have a moral compass.
 
Beating or scaring a dog into submission is not training. What you end up with is a dog who never learns desired behaviour or obedience they simply learn to comply to avoid pain. Ive rescued several of these dogs after macho 'Im the boss' types have got bored with them and everytime Ive had to start again from scratch. Watching a dog cower when it sees a cleaning bucket because it has been drowned or walk behind furniture to avoid punishment or wet itself in fright at a raised voice is not empowering its pitiful and heartbreaking,
. Before trying any training on a dog imagine seeing someone do it to your 2 yr old child..
Not suitable for a child? NOT suitable for your dog. That includes throwing things, choking, smacking, kicking or using threats.
 
JessandJackson said:
@Bonnies mum - I feel your pain right now and ours is 7 months and built like a bull already. I read on another dog site (and will give it ago at the time of his next episode... hoping there isn't one!!) that when you note the switch-up i.e the glint in his eye where you look tastier than the play toy, make sure he already has a loose collar on and gently escort him to the nearest room i.e a downstairs toilet. Keep the light off and place him in there for 30-40 seconds - but walk away so he cannot smell you. Keep the dog shut. Come back, let him back out (again no noise) nice and calmly and go back to where you left off i.e start engaging / playing with him again. You have to catch these negative behaviors right at the start as punishment after i.e 10 minutes after he has done a poo in your living - the dog just won't get it.

Last night we had a similar switch-up to you (usually its towards my boyfriend) and we took a different approach: he was happily playing tug with my boyfriend and he just fixated on me mid-play and wanted to hump, jump, bite and nibble me - eventually barking as he wasn't getting an engagement from me... I walked away ignoring him but with that he lept up and bit my bum... we have a metal choke-chain large (maybe you should get the smallest from Pets @ Home as I note he looks like a small terrier) and my boyfriend got that, banged it on the kitchen counter, attached it to his collar and pulled quite fiercely a few times and said no I am the Boss here (maybe a bit more of a subtle approach considering yours is not the size of a horse like mine)... I too told him off - make sure it just isn't one-sided if you and others are in the room. They need to see they EVERYONE does not approve of the behavior...and I would like to say he really knew he was Boss at that moment in time and the switch-up immediately calmed and almost instantly we had puppy eyes - especially at me, and a sulking slouch on the sofa.

Everything's worth a try when they are this age.
Click to expand...
I'm astounded that you think that is acceptable behavior, scaring a dog and physically hurting him with a choke chain. I'm lost for words........
 
Bonnies mum said:
Thanks Judy this is great stuff. i watched the video, she has already learnt the leave it but reckon she could do with stepping it up a little and adopting more control. Don't suppose you could help me with another problem? Bonnie is very demanding when she wants attention and or wants to play and will do the 'I want attention bark'. At the moment, I either walk away and ignore her or if I am watching the tele I will shout at her to be quiet. She really does pick her moments ha ha. I know this isn't right but her bark is piercing and it's so frustrating when I am getting into a programme so look for a quick fix. However, I worry that ignoring her pleas for attention or telling her off hinders me trying to get her to let me know she wants to go outside to do her business. House training has been slow as I trained her through the summer with the back door open. I have been obsessive with taking her out since young pup and she'll wee on demand so she knows where to do her business but she is subtle when asking and she'll just stand at the back door. Occassionaly we miss this and find a wee in the living room
Click to expand...
Betty does the barking for attention and if I speak to her she barks more I am just trying the ignoring her and it works .I am doing the same when she barks at food ours not hers. I have spoilt her a bit and its been a hard to stick to it when you get the big sad eye look but she s getting it she s the same age as yours
 
Its probably and simply the Yorkshire terrier in her,I've met quite a few of the little sods who are like this. It's seems the normal character for some of them.
As for the choke chain,don't go down that route. Learn your dog and then learn some more,learn it that well that you know what it's going to do before it does it. While you are interacting with your dog during training you are building trust up. But trust works both ways,if you get your dog to truly trust you,you get a unbreakable bond for life. You won't get no trust from yanking your dog on a choke chain I'm afraid. I use really old methods of training handed down from grandfather to father then to me. None of it is based on punishment,it's all about enjoyment and trust. Get them right and your dog will want to learn and please you.
 
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