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Mitchell Perry said:
At night before bed, I say "Go" to our dogs. They go outside for a week, then run back in, straight upstairs and onto their bed which is next to ours. They are already sat waiting for a treat by the time I get there. I give them a Gravy Bone each then they go to sleep. One of them snores every night too.
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LOL....they are cute when they sleep but snoring...o_O:D It is funny how they come up with certain kind of routines. One of our previous dogs, she was early bird with her sleeping habits and would stand at the bottom of the stairs waiting for us to ask if she wants to go for nighty nights..'go on then' and she would run and go to bed for her sleep. Hubby was next one in line with sleeping needs so when he would eventually follow, dog would come back down to escape his snoring :D As I was night owl and would settle to sleep as and when I felt like it and where ever the sleep need landed me down...she would nuzzle next to me and we would keep each other warm. Oh loved that dog to bits..
Now my older one is showing similar traits being my personal hot water bottle. Little one is usually somewhere nearby but she is 'hot blooded' with thicker coat so she don't really stay long close by.
Since the pup's arrival I've slept downstairs doing the night time duties. But we are about to let the little one to venture upstairs soon as she is now 'dry' and we shall see what sort of sleeping arrangements we have to come up with. She can run upstairs very quickly indeed but we haven't allowed her to tackle the coming down bit...so lots to learn yet.
 
Unfortunately, social media highlights the more militant and less intelligent vegans. You know the joke 'How do you know someone's a vegan?'... 'Because they tell you'? It's the ones who tell you that you are aware of, but there are plenty more in the background who don't feel the need to tell you about their eating habits.

I have a lot of respect for vegans who believe that eating meat amounts pretty much to murder - animals are sentient beings who can suffer as much as humans, so why should their relative lack if intelligence make it OK to kill them? But there is always a bigger picture, there is always a 'Yes, but...', in pretty much any ethical discussion so we should always retain our humility and recognise that it's often not possible to reach a firm conclusion we can all agree with in the way that we can all (well most of us, anyway) agree that 1 + 1 = 2.
 
@JudyN.. where do you draw the line to whats acceptable though. This is where I struggle with ethical vegans.
 
Rinkydinkydo said:
@JudyN.. where do you draw the line to whats acceptable though. This is where I struggle with ethical vegans.
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That's the thing - wherever you draw the line will be to some extent arbitrary. To some people, killing a gorilla would be wrong (and they may choose to call it murder), to others it would be a dog, or a pig, or a cow... some vegetarians will happily kill slugs in their garden, others won't dig for fear of mortally wounding a worm. Who can say where the line should be drawn? What about headlice and bedbugs?? So I've nothing against ethical vegans at all, as long as they accept that they don't have a monopoly on 'being right', and though I choose not to eat meat, and think that it is 'probably definitely wrong' to eat unethically reared meat (e.g. pigs in conditions we would call cruel if they were dogs), my view is just one of a whole range of possible postions and it would be arrogant to think that it's 'more right' than anyone else's.

Having said that, I probably do believe that the most ethical option is to be vegan, as long as you avoid replacing meat/dairy with almonds, palm oil, avocados, etc. imported from the other side of the world grown intensively on what was a rich ecological habitat, and processed ready meals/meat substitutes packaged in plastic. But then it would also be more ethical to downsize to a small grotty house and give away almost all of my money to people who need it more, and I'm not planning on doing that either.
 
What I cant understand is 'normal' food places have vegetarian dishes to cater for their clients, so why do vegetarian places not have a meat option to cater for those that want it.
 
Biker John said:
What I cant understand is 'normal' food places have vegetarian dishes to cater for their clients, so why do vegetarian places not have a meat option to cater for those that want it.
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Because if they had a meat option, they wouldn't be a vegetarian place in the first place;)

But more to the point, the people who run the veggie place have an ethical objection to eating meat, whereas people who run a 'normal' food place presumably don't have an ethical objection to eating meat-free meals, so it's not a symmetrical situation. Omnivores have the option of eating vegetarian dishes, whereas vegetarians don't have the option of eating meals with meat in.
 
You’ll probably find in more cosmopolitan cities there may be paleo-type eating establishments catering for meat eaters though I imagine they eat some paleo-Tyler veggies (which I presume are probably raw).
 
What's paleo-Tyler, @DixieD ? I know what a paleo diet is - approximately - but not what the Tyler bit is...

My one gripe about the increase in food options for vegans is that some restaurants & supermarkets think they can cater for both vegans and veggies by changing several of their veggie options to vegan - so instead of getting ready-made 'dirty fries' with no bacon bits but lots of yummy cheese, I get 'dirty fries' with an icky bechamel sauce instead. Or meals made with vegan cheese, when (to my knowledge) there's no such thing as a decent vegan cheese. I also like to buy the occasional vegetarian recipe/food magazine, but our local M&S now just has 'omnivore' magazines and vegan ones, the latter having no cheese or cream, but plenty of tofu, soya protein, fermented kimchi or whatever it is, and other stuff I really don't fancy...

I shouldn't complain though - we all have a ridiculous choice of food now compared to when we grew up, when it was mostly meat & two veg, peppers were exotic, and no one had even heard of avocados.
 
Biker John said:
What I cant understand is 'normal' food places have vegetarian dishes to cater for their clients, so why do vegetarian places not have a meat option to cater for those that want it.
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That made me smile @Biker John . I'm actually going to one tonight but we just call it 'a restaurant'!

:D
 
Just to say I am a rather 'liberal'( I think that would be the right word?)vegan, was incredibly strict in the first 11 years and have relaxed as I got a bit older(realized life's to short to walk around with a righteous broom up my butt as I probably did in my early teens!!), I am partial to a very occasional mars bar:eek:, very wrong I know and also can't resist a bit of lemon drizzle cake.. but my diet as a whole is vegan and my humble opinion on meat eaters is that they all should suffer and die like the animals they consume... nah only joking:D:D, I am a firm believer in live and let live and that we are each responsible for our own decisions in life. To me, like I said life is too short to be mithering about what other people do or don't do, unless it directly impacts on my life in a negative way then I would have something to say I'm sure!!:rolleyes: Just a foot note, I tried the vegan steak bakes the other day and wasn't massively impressed, now the vegan sausage rolls, yum! After all these years I love that I can go into a regular bakery and get a hot 'sausage' roll on a cold day just like other people;)
 
I feel extraordinarily guilty now.. last time i was in a vegan restaurant was many years ago, and the food I thought was awful.
But I have plenty of vegetarian friends. Those friends join us for lunches and dinners at regular restaurants, ordering whatever non-meat dishes there are... salads and such things, never complaining.

Now, reading all this, I came to realize that my vegetarian friends are just very "non-militaristic" and non-confrontational, but have endured many situations where they had to sacrifice their enjoyment of food for the sake of enjoying the company.

This is not fair, is it? Next time I think we'll have to pick a vegetarian place, and meat eaters like myself will have to be content with vegetarian menu, or fake meat or fish.... hopefully taste of this stuff has improved since my experiment at that vegan place years ago.
 
@JudyN Paleo-Tyler’s predictive text, I think! I meant to put paleo type, I would think, and had to rush out door, so just posted it without realising. Hope you didn’t waste time googling it. ;)
 
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Biker John said:
What I cant understand is 'normal' food places have vegetarian dishes to cater for their clients, so why do vegetarian places not have a meat option to cater for those that want it.
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If we’re being logical, why don’t Italian restaurants have Mexican options forMexicans who don’t like Italian food?
 
OH was telling me about his walk this morning.... 'He was on lead, so I had to go where he wanted to go...'

He's not quite grasped the purpose of a lead, has he?:D
 
JudyN said:
OH was telling me about his walk this morning.... 'He was on lead, so I had to go where he wanted to go...'

He's not quite grasped the purpose of a lead, has he?:D
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Well..actually...the lead works fine if it keeps 'creature' on the each end on place. Who makes the decision/leads where to go is another matter ;):D
 
Yes, this is very true, @Finsky - and to be fair, they were in the middle of the heath and Jasper was only on lead as OH had just spotted a dead squirrel and didn't want it becoming Jasper's brunch, so any direction apart from squirrelwards was fine.
 
JudyN said:
Yes, this is very true, @Finsky - and to be fair, they were in the middle of the heath and Jasper was only on lead as OH had just spotted a dead squirrel and didn't want it becoming Jasper's brunch, so any direction apart from squirrelwards was fine.
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Oh that is no fun at all! Nice little snack and FREE too and he wasn't allowed for it. ;)
How far or how long (time wise) is Jasper's typical walkies when he is taken to that sort of places?

We took our little ones to Sherwood forest for a nice walk. It is not that far from were we live but for some reason we never really explored it as we have some other areas that we normally go to. But Sherwood has now become our new favourite and each time we go further in and there is so many different paths and areas to check out. Today we covered about 4 miles but we did go into more wilder areas so it wasn't easiest ramble. Girls are now VERY quiet and dreaming about their next venture:D Which I'm just mapping out ready once the worst of the weather to come has passed over :rolleyes:
 
Finsky said:
How far or how long (time wise) is Jasper's typical walkies when he is taken to that sort of places?
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Probably about an hour upwards, though we're often out longer - up to 2 hours - if we head out on foot as we have to walk about a mile to get to the good places. Or we might head to the local park, which is just 10 mins walk and still has some 'off piste' areas. We do both seem to be drawn to the wilder areas - I often come home looking like I've walked through a hedge backwards. Sometimes, I have been... :D

He has two walks a day (very occasionally he'll choose to play in the garden instead), total time about 2 hours but it can be 3 hours. Now, if I could remember who it was who told me that lurchers only need a couple of 20-min walks a day :mad:
 
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