Unsocialised, fearful young dog

Oh, the poor lad - good luck in your search for a soulmate for him.

I don't know if this has been suggested, but have you considered speaking to your vet about medication? Just as some people need medication to help with depression, anxiety, or trauma-related mental health problems, dogs can too. This isn't a matter of sedating them - the right medication can simply help with the anxiety and allow them to enjoy life more. While he's so scared most of the time, it's difficult for him to learn that he is actually safe - with the support of medication, he can begin to realise he no longer needs to be scared and he may eventually no longer need it.

Ref. "Destructive" - repetitive rhythmic action releases endorphins (think of the child that rocks or headbangs - and some dogs do that too). Set him up with lots of safe things to destroy - newspaper, cardboard boxes etc. And we have a pinned thread that leads on from this that gives examples of activities that soothe and gently tire him out.

Whereabouts in the country are you...

Hemlock said:

And we have a pinned thread that leads on from this that gives examples of activities that soothe and gently tire him out.

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Here Mental enrichment for dogs

JudyN said:

Oh, the poor lad - good luck in your search for a soulmate for him.

I don't know if this has been suggested, but have you considered speaking to your vet about medication? Just as some people need medication to help with depression, anxiety, or trauma-related mental health problems, dogs can too. This isn't a matter of sedating them - the right medication can simply help with the anxiety and allow them to enjoy life more. While he's so scared most of the time, it's difficult for him to learn that he is actually safe - with the support of medication, he can begin to realise he no longer needs to be scared and he may eventually no longer need it.

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Thanks Judy for your reply. We have had a long chat with our vet regarding something to calm him down. The advice from the vet was that she didn’t think meds would help but to keep him intact as he would benefit from the testosterone.

Tinytom said:

Whereabouts in the country are you...

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We are in the far north east of the Scottish Highland

JudyN said:

Here Mental enrichment for dogs

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Thank you, I’ll have a good look at all of this tomorrow

Michael M said:

We are in the far north east of the Scottish Highland

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I dont know any rescue centres your way but it maybe an idea to contact them and explain about your boy and they may have a match for you ...I think you are right in getting another dog ...most dogs with his background need to have another dog ....
Good luck and let us know how you get on

Hi all, quick update on Harry.
Sadly, we still haven’t found a friend for Harry yet. There have been a few offers but the money being asked for 4-5 year old females that could possibly be good for him is absolutely outrageous! I’m in touch with a number of rescue kennels but it would seem they are currently inundated with poorly trained 2-3 year olds, which seem to be a product of the recent pandemic lockdowns, or they have dogs that are also very fearful.
Harry continues to be more or less frightened of most things. One day it seems as though we’ve progressed but the next day, the same thing will just set him off on one of his screaming sessions. Once he’s ‘gone off on one’ it takes a lot of reassuring and quiet isolation to get him to calm down. We have had a behaviourist visit (recommended by our vet) but she basically suggested he would not improve much as his intense fear of things is just too deeply rooted. She thinks another dog should help, providing it is the right one, otherwise we have to come to terms with what we have and hope he calms down as he gets older. I have to say that for what she charged, I wasn’t impressed. I actually got the impression that because of how frightened of life he is, she would consider having him euthanised. That is not an option!
So for now, we are basically house / garden bound with him. If we take him out for walks etc. (walks that he was starting to enjoy when we had his temporary friend here) he just drops flat on the floor, shakes with fear and refuses to move. We then have to put him back in the car and bring him home.
We’ll carry on looking for a new buddy for him which hopefully will help him to overcome a lot of his fear again.

Seeing him so sad and scared must be heart breaking for you, I am keeping everything crossed that the right companion will be just around the corner for him.
It is so awful too that the centres are full of troubled 'lock down' dogs, it was outrageously inevitable and such a worry for them. I always fear that they become like boomerang dogs, going to a new home, then their new people struggle and back they go, all the while adding to their troubles
People like you and the other lady on here at the moment, sus, are amazing for accepting that the dogs you have adopted have incredibly complex needs but you are totally committed to them, it is heart warming...
With regards to dog behaviourists, I have heard a few unimpressed experiences recently and it seems they are not cheap also! I think we do need to remember that it is a 'profession' that is self regulated (as is dog training) so anyone in theory can set them selves up as one, sadly... though I am absolutely sure there are gems out there with experience and great knowledge, finding them is another matter.

Have you thought about adopting a male dog if a suitable one was found...personally I find the males easier ...we have 4 males 2 pups which are un neutered and they get along fabulously

Flobo said:

Seeing him so sad and scared must be heart breaking for you, I am keeping everything crossed that the right companion will be just around the corner for him.
It is so awful too that the centres are full of troubled 'lock down' dogs, it was outrageously inevitable and such a worry for them. I always fear that they become like boomerang dogs, going to a new home, then their new people struggle and back they go, all the while adding to their troubles
People like you and the other lady on here at the moment, sus, are amazing for accepting that the dogs you have adopted have incredibly complex needs but you are totally committed to them, it is heart warming...
With regards to dog behaviourists, I have heard a few unimpressed experiences recently and it seems they are not cheap also! I think we do need to remember that it is a 'profession' that is self regulated (as is dog training) so anyone in theory can set them selves up as one, sadly... though I am absolutely sure there are gems out there with experience and great knowledge, finding them is another matter.

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Thank you Flobo. I’m sure we’ll find something eventually.

Tinytom said:

Have you thought about adopting a male dog if a suitable one was found...personally I find the males easier ...we have 4 males 2 pups which are un neutered and they get along fabulously

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Thanks Tinytom. At the beginning, we tried to introduce Harry to other dogs. He only met 3 males and after a few minutes tried to be aggressively dominant, not so with female dogs. So, based on this behaviour, we decided it should be a female. On the advice of our vet, he is still ‘intact’ as she thought the testosterone might help him. It could be this that makes him the way he is with other males.

Michael M said:

Thanks Tinytom. At the beginning, we tried to introduce Harry to other dogs. He only met 3 males and after a few minutes tried to be aggressively dominant, not so with female dogs. So, based on this behaviour, we decided it should be a female. On the advice of our vet, he is still ‘intact’ as she thought the testosterone might help him. It could be this that makes him the way he is with other males.

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Has your vet recommended chemical castration...it will imitate if he had been castrated but is reversible as it's an injection that wears off .....eg if he is calmer then you know getting him castrated is a good idea ...

Hi everyone,
Another update on Harry’s resettlement. 3 weeks ago, we welcomed Piksi to our home (and Harry). Piksi is a 4 year old female ex-show American Cocker Spaniel, she is quite used to having young and old dogs around her and after much corresponding with her breeder, we decided she could be the one to help Harry on his journey. So, after a 1,100 mile round trip over 2 days, Piksi and Harry were introduced to each other. Being honest, it didn’t go well at the beginning and we saw a side to Harry we hadn’t seen before, aggressive Harry. However, Piksi soon put a very growly and unfriendly Harry in his place and after just a few hours, they seemed to settle down. Harry slowly started to settle down and accept Piksi as one of his family. He does his best to persuade her to be manic and generally be a hooligan but she won’t have any of it, much too reserved, which is great because it stops Harry being naughty too. We still have a long way to go but every day we are seeing a slight improvement in Harry. he still sees ghosts and has a scream or two but even these are less in number and duration. We’re not sure about the new aggressive behaviour but he is going to the vet next Wednesday to be neutered. The vet now thinks he has enough testosterone and could do with a bit less, so hopefully that will help. He’s also going to be tested for Hypothyroidism as he shows symptoms of that in other areas, rapid weight gain (poor lad is on a permanent diet), constant excessive hair loss etc. I’m sure many of you will know about this condition but I was surprised to learn it can also make a dog fearful and aggressive and that American and English Cockers are prone to this ailment. For now, things are looking much better than they did a month ago. Harry has a new best friend who he really likes (photo below) and although we think Piksi sometimes has a ‘treat ‘em mean, keep ‘em keen’ mindset, it seems to work for both of them. The photo reveals her tenderness though, allowing Harry to use her as a pillow. I will give another update in a few weeks, with hopefully, more positive news.

That's fantastic news ...well done to you and your family for sticking by Harry and finding him a companion...good luck with the neutering and the thyroid test ....

Oh, that is lovely Are you still seeing signs of his aggression? I tend to think that any dog is entitled to show his displeasure, concern, call it what you like, at a new 'dog on the block' particularly when things haven't been easy for him in the past. My concern is that you don't want to disrupt whatever stability he feels by putting him through the stress of an op and the loss of hormones if what he needs is time to get used to this new presence in his life - particularly if treatment for hypothyroidism might also help him.

Also bear in mind that aggression is also often caused by a lack of confidence, not too much - confident dogs don't need to prove themselves by picking on others.

Of course, I'm not an expert, and you have a much better insight into what he is like.

I absolutely agree with JudyN. As far as he is concerned, Piksi is a rival for resources and affection. A bit like you'd feel if your Significant Other came home with a new partner and assured you that it was such fun having you that here was someone you could be friends with, share your clothes with, etc. etc.

You can have him castrated at any time, but you can't stick 'em back on. You do as you see fit, but as you are here asking for input, I'd say hold off for a bit longer.

Once again, thank you for your comments and suggestions. My last post was in fact just an update on Harry, as I have been politely asked in the past to do so, and on this occasion wasn’t really asking for approval of how we were dealing with his numerous problems. Clearly I have struck a nerve with regards to him being neutered and I definitely wasn’t expecting comparisons of my “significant other” bringing home another person. We really are trying to do our best for Harry. All earlier comments and advice on this forum have been gratefully received, considered, tried and positively enforced where they have been successful and we feel he has come quite a way since I first asked for help. We have also been taking advice from our local vet, who has been monitoring Harry since he came to live with us plus very recently, advice from a new and more positive behaviourist who specialises in rescue dogs. Both agree that the original idea of giving Harry the chance to make as much testosterone as he can is now becoming counter-productive. Harry is starting to show aggression to other dogs and just lately, sheep, which is totally unacceptable. He sees them from our garden every day, so we’re not at all sure why he has decided he doesn’t like them. Also, Piksi has come to us an un-spayed bitch. Submitting her to surgery so soon after being re-homed according to our vet and behaviourist would be quite traumatic for her too, probably more so than having Harry neutered. We did ask if chemical castration was an option but our vet isn’t totally convinced that the new sub-dermal chips are 100% effective. So, after a lot of thought we feel that surgery is the best option.
Thank you to everyone for your support and advice over the last few months, it has been so reassuring knowing that we were not alone in our efforts to give Harry a happy life.

I'm sorry you felt the comments were unwarranted, Michael They are made with absolutely the best intentions, giving a perspective that you may or may not have considered. I wasn't criticising your decision to neuter at all, and you have clearly given it a lot of thought. Ultimately, I would rather ask questions and be told that my comments were unnecessary on the off-chance that they might help someone on some occasion. A bit like my husband asking me if I locked the back door when we go out (yes, it annoys me, but sometimes I haven't!).

I'm delighted that Harry is doing well, has found a friend, and has such a dedicated team looking after him. And again, apologies if I sounded critical.