Dog Attack

What is it about country dogs/owners!?! :angry: On Saturday we were having our usual walk and this guy comes the other way with an Alsatian. He calls out ‘don’t worry she is friendly. Our Lilly ran up to them, and the Alsatian started chasing her around his legs. We were some way off. It was a narrow path and so she couldn’t get away. It must have bitten her because she screamed, but it kept after her. Then it caught her again and pinned her to the floor from behind and started biting her back.

The owner made no attempt to intervene. At this I sprinted up the path and faced with a large dog on our puppy I took the biggest running kick I could at its head. To say I put everything into that kick is an understatement. The dog was not as dumb as it looked, because it ducked, and I nearly fell over backwards! Lilly broke away and ran off and I went after her. Even then the Alsatian started after her again, until I turned to it and screamed at it.

Lilly was terrified and I found that she had a nasty bite hole in the skin over her back the size of my fingernail. It could have been worse. To my amazement this guy caught up his dog and started having a go at me, saying I would have killed his dog if I had connected.

What is particularly upsetting is we know this guy – we often pass his stable and he has been very friendly to us. The whole thing was very upsetting, and I felt remorseful all day about what might have happened if I had managed to kick it. But then I think if I had not done so it might have bitten Lilly even worse.

We went to see the guy the next morning and agreed there was ‘no damage done’. Although he denied it at the time, he did acknowledge that Lilly had been bitten, but instead of apologizing he kept referring to the damage I might have done! I don’t know what I should do if something like this was to happen again. On reflection I do not think this was so much a vicious attack as a highly dominant display.

i am sorry but i would ahve done exatly the same the only difernce is i would have shouted to the owner get to your dog before me or i will kick ten colours of S*** out of it. I love all dogs but I love mine more than anyone elas and if i can see them in realy danger or a possition they carnt get out of i am going to help. If it had been difrent and my dogs were pestring another and didnt come back when called and a dog bit them well they should know better but if they carnt come away and are getting bit and the owners doing nothing then I bloody will.

if he says again what could have happend if you had maid contact just say well if you had got your dog off before i got there i woudl nbot have needed to and if i hadnt scraed your dog off mine could allso have been seariosly injured or killed so looks like he could have stoped all the maybes if he had got his dog in the fisrt place at the fisrt sign of trouble.

hope your all over the shock

I would have done the same as you. Also I would have told the owner that if he couldn't control his dog then it should not be off lead.

Bradley was bitten by a GSD in the local park before Christmas. The owner let it off and it made a bee line for Bradley who was coming back to me (I don't let mine off with strange dogs) and it bit his back leg. The owner caught his dog whscked it several times with a chain lead and dragged it out the park. Not a word to me at all. What did that teach the dog - don't come back or you get whacked- springs to mind.

Brad was fine not even lame.

Thanks for the support. My advice is, get a brindle dog - the scars don't show!

I am hoping the incident does not change Lillys character. She seemed pretty much OK afterwards, and we didnt make a big fuss, but we took her out the next day, and most uncharacteristically she started barking at strangers. I hope it doesnt make her nervous or aggressive.

I think the thing that upset me is the realisation that at that moment I was prepared to kill that dog to get it off Lilly. I think perhaps I should have been more measured.

Holliepup said:

but we took her out the next day, and most uncharacteristically she started barking at strangers. I hope it doesnt make her nervous or aggressive.

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Get her to a training class local to you, she will meet friendly dogs and people. Give them a ring and explain the situation first but I am sure that they will be able to help.

Holliepup said:

Thanks for the support. My advice is, get a brindle dog - the scars don't show!
I am hoping the incident does not change Lillys character. She seemed pretty much OK afterwards, and we didnt make a big fuss, but we took her out the next day, and most uncharacteristically she started barking at strangers. I hope it doesnt make her nervous or aggressive.

I think the thing that upset me is the realisation that at that moment I was prepared to kill that dog to get it off Lilly. I think perhaps I should have been more measured.

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I think your reaction was totally natural and understandable in that situation, and you shouldn't beat yourself up for it. When Grace was small I kicked a Jack Russell (which should have been on a lead because we were in the public park which has an 'on lead' regulation) which made three aggressive dashes at Grace. The third time I kicked out - no harm done - and it didn't come back. It's owner was standing by doing absolutely nothing at all to control it!

Your reaction was perfectly normal, if the GSD's owner wasn't about to do something, you had to.

My Elderly Collie was attacked a fortnight ago, he got back on his feet to come to me then collapsed, he had a heart attack from which he never recovered and was put to sleep a few days later.

That was a colliex that attacked him, it makes me very nervous now and Blue does not approach strange dogs now either.

If a dog is off the lead and un muzzled in a public place we assume that it must be ok, especially as in your position the owner told you she was fine...don't beat yourself up about it, even if you had have connected with your kick its unlikely that you'd have done the animal any damage at all.

Hope Lilly is recovering in body and in mind

I am extremely sorry that this has happened to your little girl

But, please believe me, you are just as likely to find "bad" dog owners in towns, and I think it is rather rude to infer that people who live in the country have something "wrong" with them!!

I have 2 GSDs and well as my whippets and lurcher and I live in the most rural situation you could imagine in the depth of Devon, although I was born and raised in London so I have lived in both situations. Where you live doesn't matter, it's how you manage your dog/s which is important.

I do agree with Jane it's not were you you live it's how you bring your dog up one of my poodles was badly mauled in the middle of Manchester some years ago

that happened to my harley about 4weeks ago now he was attacked by two staffies and a english bull terrier and the owners did nothing so i kicked one of the staffies in the head! people with visous dogs should have them on leads and be mussaled. ur defently in the right

My whippets have been attacked several times and they have never started it in fact they have been on the lead, if I see any dogs and mine are off I put them straight on the lead, you would think people would see this as a sign that you don't want dogs near yours but no they let their dogs run up to mine so i have to shout to tell them that because my dogs have been attacked they now feel threatened and stressed if anything runs up to them. My one dog had the end of his tail bitten off and my hubby had to kick the other dog off and mine bless him didn't even fight back bless him.

First of all teach your pup to have a good recall, so that you can stop it running up to strangers - dogs and people alike. Until you can do this, it would be a good idea to keep it on a lead in public places, that way it is under control. In the event of a strange dog running up to you, then your dog is within an arms length - making it easier to land a well aimed boot or blow with a walking stick if your pup is attacked. In an ideal world (don't know about you, but that is definitely not where I live), all dogs would be friendly and all owners would take responsibilty and have their dogs well, trained, socialised and under control, but as I say, in the ideal world............

Be pro-active - take responsibilty for your own dog in public places, it is all you can do - you cannot, with all the good will in the world, control the actions of other people who have troublesome dogs and fail to acknowledge it or take responsible action to correct it.

I was chatting to a bloke with a lovely labrador at the weekend - he came over to us because he loves whippets. He showed us some awful scars on him and his dog from when they were attacked by a pitbull/ staffie type last year. 21 stitches between him and the dog. His dog nearly had its ear torn off and if it wasn't for the fact that it happened on a playing field where there were loads of blokes playing football, God knows what could have happened. The footballers pulled the dog off and the woman owner just took the dog away without a word. This was a big bloke (works in security) with a big dog - shudder to think if it had been a kid. He was warning us to avoid the area it happened which was only about half a mile from where we were. He says he'll never forget the woman's face. This nice bloke doesn't even want the dog put down, just wants to find it to report it so it has to be muzzled.

Another flipside is that we start judging all dogs of this type, which is unfair because we met a right softie one at the weekend as well. I still would never have one around kids. All dogs can do unpredictable things but pitbulls are more likely to do it, and be more lethal when they do. I've said before, they are used by some people as a status symbol, a visual representation of what else weaponwise they might be carrying. And as a result the pounds are full of the poor things. It's a shame when as dog lovers we have to advocate putting the boot in to another dog but I reckon I would if it was ''them or us.''

I don't think it really matters where you live but I do think that some rural dwelling folk are more likely to have a handle on their dogs behaviour because of livestock. However as living rurally is becoming more a luxury ameniable to the wealthy, I do tend to think there's more folk taking to the countryside who whilst blessed with a great deal of intelligence seem to be poorly lacking in common sense when it comes to their animals. The other group are those that think if they own a barn conversion they own half the countryside too and think they can do as they please. :wacko:

Regardless of the approaching owners dog, I do think you should put your own dog on a lead when another is approaching.

With regards to your own dog, they might have learnt an important lesson, that being that not every dog is friendly and when you call them, they should return.

Don't get me wrong, he's also out of order for not leashing his dog but I don't expect every breed of dog to be tolerant of a bouncy young dog running around them and darting about at 30+ mph, it is annonying to them and it's why I leash my own dogs.

If your own are on the lead you have your own dogs under control, giving you the legal higher ground. If you put yourself in front of your dogs and the approaching dog, your telling them you'll control the situation and your telling the approaching dog they've got to deal with you first. I've had this situation loads of times and it does work. It also got me out of a pretty scary situation when 2 escaped guard dogs came gunning for us and I stood there shouting and snarling and growling at them like some kind of nutcase. :b The other advantage of this is if it continues to attack, the dog is now threatening you which puts it under the dangerous dogs act.

If your own are on the lead you have your own dogs under control, giving you the legal higher ground. If you put yourself in front of your dogs and the approaching dog, your telling them you'll control the situation and your telling the approaching dog they've got to deal with you first. I've had this situation loads of times and it does work. It also got me out of a pretty scary situation when 2 escaped guard dogs came gunning for us and I stood there shouting and snarling and growling at them like some kind of nutcase. :b The other advantage of this is if it continues to attack, the dog is now threatening you which puts it under the dangerous dogs act.

now that is a sound bit of information and does make sense

diffitly gives you the legal higher ground

jinnyfizz said:

I am extremely sorry that this has happened to your little girl
But, please believe me, you are just as likely to find "bad" dog owners in towns, and I think it is rather rude to infer that people who live in the country have something "wrong" with them!!

I have 2 GSDs and well as my whippets and lurcher and I live in the most rural situation you could imagine in the depth of Devon, although I was born and raised in London so I have lived in both situations. Where you live doesn't matter, it's how you manage your dog/s which is important.

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I am suprised you think me rude. I had better expand on what I had in mind.

One has to make assessments about situations, possible risks etc and act accordingly depending upon ones own judgement and practise. In London if you see a youth with a Staff or a Rotti you fear that the dog is a status symbol, likely to be improperly handled, and you avoid it. That judgement could be wrong but there is little downside in taking avoiding action if you can. But one can’t do that in every situation or one would never leave the house. Generally, but not always, the other dogs in the park are fine - they have to be because its the only place they can run and they come into contact with 10/20 other dogs each day and so are likely to be well socialised.

In the country you have fewer obvious clues as to what reaction you might get when you meet on an isolated walk. Grannies with cute little dogs end up at your throat (the dogs not the grannies!) I guess because they have fewer opportunities to socialise with other dogs. I’ve noticed a lot more stiff-legged posturing etc. when they meet (again the dogs not the grannies).

I actually think that few people really understand the psychology of their dogs or manage them ‘properly’ but in most cases they don’t need to - they pretty much manage themselves, particularly, as I have said, where they come into contact with many other dogs each day and soon learn how to behave. The combination of less than astute management, and dogs isolated on farms or detached houses rarely meeting other dogs/people surely means they can be less practiced at how to behave around other people/dogs when they do meet. That is my experience, but perhaps I’ve just been unlucky.

Thinking about that, some statistics might be interesting (or not!). We stay in London during the week and go to the country at the weekend. 5 days a week the dogs use London parks and must meet at least 10 other dogs each day. In the country 2 days a week and meet say 2 dogs. Therefore each week they meet 50 dogs in London and 4 dogs in the country. If there was no difference in the behaviour of these dogs then they should get attacked 1250% more often in London by virtue of the number of contacts. But in fact they have been attacked 500% more often in the country.

TOWN – 1 attack

Dogs playing in park, start getting chased by 3 fox terriers. Finally caught her and she got a nasty bite – I think they were frustrated at chasing and not catching her and kind of couldn’t help themselves.

COUNTRY – 5 attacks

1. Public footpath through someone’s garden (unfortunate for the owner). That lady keeps and lets run free a Pyrenean Mountain dog. ‘Don’t worry, perfectly friendly’ Mine on a lead. Dog pounces round my legs and bites Hollie on the back.

2. Playing on beach with other dogs, snaffling about with a crab shell, bitten on ear by dachshund

3. Walking on sidewalk in village, small woman with large great dane, narrow pavement I can see her dog staring so hang back, dog launches, pulls woman off feet, mine shrieks and runs into road at end of lead I have to intervene and drag her dog off mine before it could bite her

4. Footpath, another woman with lab and another great dane who we know, stop for chat, dogs on lead, as we talk I see her dog focussing on mine (she completely unaware) start to move mine away, hers launches almost pulls her off her feet and again I have to intervene with yet another huge dog to pull it off before it gets a bite

5. Last weeks episode mentioned before

Apart from that there have been innumerable occasions when walking when people hurry to catch up their dogs and put them on a lead when they see us coming. They are clearly worried about their dogs behaviour.

meddling said:

Your reaction was perfectly normal, if the GSD's owner wasn't about to do something, you had to.
My Elderly Collie was attacked a fortnight ago, he got back on his feet to come to me then collapsed, he had a heart attack from which he never recovered and was put to sleep a few days later.

That was a colliex that attacked him, it makes me very nervous now and Blue does not approach strange dogs now either.

If a dog is off the lead and un muzzled in a public place we assume that it must be ok, especially as in your position the owner told you she was fine...don't beat yourself up about it, even if you had have connected with your kick its unlikely that you'd have done the animal any damage at all.

Hope Lilly is recovering in body and in mind

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Thats awful, Im really sorry to hear about it. You must be devastated. To see your loved companion of many years being attacked must have been terribly upsetting. So sad. And also that Blue is now scared of other dogs. I think its possible for people to under estimate the responsibility they have in keeping pets and the impact on others if they fail.

Holliepup said:

meddling said:

Your reaction was perfectly normal, if the GSD's owner wasn't about to do something, you had to.
My Elderly Collie was attacked a fortnight ago, he got back on his feet to come to me then collapsed, he had a heart attack from which he never recovered and was put to sleep a few days later.

That was a colliex that attacked him, it makes me very nervous now and Blue does not approach strange dogs now either.

If a dog is off the lead and un muzzled in a public place we assume that it must be ok, especially as in your position the owner told you she was fine...don't beat yourself up about it, even if you had have connected with your kick its unlikely that you'd have done the animal any damage at all.

Hope Lilly is recovering in body and in mind

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Thats awful, Im really sorry to hear about it. You must be devastated. To see your loved companion of many years being attacked must have been terribly upsetting. So sad. And also that Blue is now scared of other dogs. I think its possible for people to under estimate the responsibility they have in keeping pets and the impact on others if they fail.

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To be honest it wasn't a serious attack, if Alfie hadn't been so frail it would not have been something to worry about too much, as Alfie had a thick pelt it would have taken a lot to have broken his skin, but yes it was upsetting to have the inevitable brought forward by however long, and for Alfie to need to go through that on what was to be his final walk ever

Blue is terribly depressed without him and will not run, play or eat, she has two canine friends coming to stay tonight, I hope they bring her out of herself and put a smile back on her face.

wild whippies said:

I don't think it really matters where you live but I do think that some rural dwelling folk are more likely to have a handle on their dogs behaviour because of livestock. However as living rurally is becoming more a luxury ameniable to the wealthy, I do tend to think there's more folk taking to the countryside who whilst blessed with a great deal of intelligence seem to be poorly lacking in common sense when it comes to their animals. The other group are those that think if they own a barn conversion they own half the countryside too and think they can do as they please. :wacko:
Regardless of the approaching owners dog, I do think you should put your own dog on a lead when another is approaching.

With regards to your own dog, they might have learnt an important lesson, that being that not every dog is friendly and when you call them, they should return.

Don't get me wrong, he's also out of order for not leashing his dog but I don't expect every breed of dog to be tolerant of a bouncy young dog running around them and darting about at 30+ mph, it is annonying to them and it's why I leash my own dogs.

If your own are on the lead you have your own dogs under control, giving you the legal higher ground. If you put yourself in front of your dogs and the approaching dog, your telling them you'll control the situation and your telling the approaching dog they've got to deal with you first. I've had this situation loads of times and it does work. It also got me out of a pretty scary situation when 2 escaped guard dogs came gunning for us and I stood there shouting and snarling and growling at them like some kind of nutcase. :b The other advantage of this is if it continues to attack, the dog is now threatening you which puts it under the dangerous dogs act.

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A lot of sense there, although its a dreadful shame to think one has to put ones dog on a lead every time you meet another. I am pretty good normally at judging the people and dogs we come up to and have avoided some nasty situations by doing exactly what you suggest. In this case we know the owner and had met the dog before and so was not expecting trouble. More often than not you can tell from the owners reaction what they think of their dogs likely behaviour - if they look like they are trying to control their dog or reaching for their lead I will always hang back, and take control of mine. Likewise if the dog is big/'ugly' or gives off a certain 'vibe' which you can often read, Ill make sure I have mine close at hand. In three cases - mentioned in a reply to another person, I have had mine on a lead and put myself between it and the other dog, and yet they have barged passed me and tried to attack. On each of those occasions I was 'trapped' on a path trying to pass, and on each occasion the other owner was blissfully unaware of their dogs mounting aggression - not a clue even though it was written all over the dogs face. And interestingly, on all three occasions, it was a hugh dog and a diminuative older female owner who clearly had no control let alone no understanding of their dogs behaviour. Dont think me either sexist or ageist but why would an 8 stone woman want a 14 stone dog that in one of those cases, I know for a fact (cos she is a neighbour) she is actually afraid of it and knows full well she cant control it? In all three cases I had to intervene and pull those dogs off because their owners simply didnt know what to do and didnt have the strength to do so.