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Wcra Reps Meeting 24th May

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Maybe in the show world leaving your bitch with the stud dog over night for a second mating is 'frequently done', however this might be because in the show world there would be no reason to breed with a non ped or be dishonest about the breeding. However, in the racing world, unfortunately, due to the fact there are some people out there who want to 'win at all costs' this must be considered an absolute no no, especially if the house the bitch is to stay at houses non peds!!! It only takes a small amount of common sense to work out what could happen, whether intentional or not.
 
finalez said:
Mary Lowe does seem to have alot of different opinions. On reading a very informative book written by herself and E.G Walsh (second edition 2004), in the "Racing Whippet" chapter 6 page127, I quote "Most owners and breeders of BWRA dogs are perfectly honest and open about thier dogs' breeding,and are indeed proud of it,and rightly so, since what they have produced is a top-class running dog.It is not uncommon to see Stud and advertisements in the Whippet News (the excellent journal devoted to all BWRA racing news) describing litters or studs as being by or out of a greyhound, or greyhound -cross.Problems resulting from such cross-breeding do not arise within the BWRA but rather within the WCRA, where a small minorityof competitors who aspire to'win at all costs' attempt to infiltrate such cross-breds into the pedigree racing scene.The damage which can be done to the purity of the Whippet is considerable.No breed can hope to retain consistant breed type under constant pressure from the introduction of cross-breeding.Generally speaking it is members of the pedigree Whippet racing fraternity who,through ignorance or competitiveness,endeavour to infiltrate cross-breds into pedigree Whippet racing clubs" unquote.Prehaps the most knowledgable Mary could also enlighten us on this ;)
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Very good piece of research Finalez - well done.
 
dan b said:
whos Mary Lowe???
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This lady phoned me ,,I googled her and she is a show judge and also breeds whippets,,,she judges all over the world and had a hand in making books about whippets.

I dont know if she raced whippets,,but she does show judge.

Hope this helps you a bit.
 
I don't know about Mary Lowe coming to the meeting, but I was thinking of inviting Joanna Lumley to speak for the racers (w00t)
 
peppermint lady said:
June Jonigk said:
I don't know about Mary Lowe coming to the meeting, but I was thinking of inviting Joanna Lumley to speak for the racers (w00t)
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:lol: :lol: :lol:
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Well she was very good at putting her case over to those who wouldn't listen, and made them listen :D and I bet she knows more about DNA and colour genetics than any of the experts who have added their bit so far :lol:
 
Got to say I'm surprised some folk are volunteering themselves as experts and I'd be very surprised if the WCRA took advice from such individuals. Surely if everyone wants the situation resolved for good then only expert advice should be being brought forward?

I mean, like Judy has said, the article (printed in 1964)?!! :wacko: is going to look extremely poor if it was counteracted with say 1 expert opinion from a geneticist that black is a dominant gene.

http://homepage.usask.ca/~schmutz/dogcolors.html

Google is your friend ;)
 
wild whippies said:
Got to say I'm surprised some folk are volunteering themselves as experts and I'd be very surprised if the WCRA took advice from such individuals. Surely if everyone wants the situation resolved for good then only expert advice should be being brought forward?
I mean, like Judy has said, the article (printed in 1964)?!! :wacko: is going to look extremely poor if it was counteracted with say 1 expert opinion from a geneticist that black is a dominant gene.

http://homepage.usask.ca/~schmutz/dogcolors.html

Google is your friend ;)
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I fear this is a case of 'who you know' and not 'what you know' to quote a certain person " I have friends in high places"!!!. If it is the pedigree's that are under suspition surely it is time for the Kennel Club and some proper experts to intervine?, after all ,they are the first place of registration for a pure bred dog, and hopefully not chummy with ANY persons involved in this dispute
 
finalez said:
wild whippies said:
Got to say I'm surprised some folk are volunteering themselves as experts and I'd be very surprised if the WCRA took advice from such individuals. Surely if everyone wants the situation resolved for good then only expert advice should be being brought forward?
I mean, like Judy has said, the article (printed in 1964)?!! :wacko: is going to look extremely poor if it was counteracted with say 1 expert opinion from a geneticist that black is a dominant gene.

http://homepage.usask.ca/~schmutz/dogcolors.html

Google is your friend ;)
Click to expand...

I fear this is a case of 'who you know' and not 'what you know' to quote a certain person " I have friends in high places"!!!. If it is the pedigree's that are under suspition surely it is time for the Kennel Club and some proper experts to intervine?, after all ,they are the first place of registration for a pure bred dog, and hopefully not chummy with ANY persons involved in this dispute
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here here les fully agree :angry:
 
surely it is time for the Kennel Club and some proper experts to intervine?, after all ,they are the first place of registration for a pure bred dog
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this should IMO of been the case from the very start.
 
I think the KC would not really be very interested, until they as the governing body who registers all pedigree puppies insist on DNA testing for ALL, these problems will occur. After all what the breeders send up to the KC is taken to be correct, with DNA it would HAVE to be correct. There is nothing to stop a breeder who has loads of dogs registering puppies by and out of any of their dogs, not the correct ones. Who would know? Only the breeder.

Is there ANY concrete proof about these whippets being the result of a non ped to ped mating? I think personally this has to be proved by the dogs owners and the officers of the WCRA. If it is unproven, then what?

The racing world is in danger of loosing out here, if we are not careful.
 
Totally agree with Mark, KC should have intervened a long time ago.

I think the KC would be very interested, seen plenty of show folk have their arses hauled up into court for lying about offspring and suspicians in some of those cases was due to colouring. Whether it's a show dog or a racer, if it is granted KC registration and there's fraudulant activity going on or not, it would be the Kennel Club who would want an investigation.

I don't think it would be a matter of proving they were non-ped whippets either, I think the onus would be on the breeder to proove the dogs lineage.

Is there ANY concrete proof about these whippets being the result of a non ped to ped mating? I think personally this has to be proved by the dogs owners and the officers of the WCRA. If it is unproven, then what?
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Expert opinion has some merit, especially if given by individuals with a wealth of experience from both the ped and non-ped world.

If DNA evidence can not be provided to give concrete proof of a dog's lineage then the next acceptable thing would be to seek experts opinions from both sides of the fence. I would suggest such 'experts' were elected by members from each racing fraternity and not self-proclaimed ones.
 
The only sure way of proving lineage is correct is DNA testing. Hearsay is just not enough. Plus the KC as I said, unless there is positive proof, will not be interested.
 
It cannot be proven that they are pedigree - that is the bottom line - but there is reasonable doubt, and people have been found guilty of murder where there is reasonable doubt, and without a body!

In my opinion the onus is on the owners to prove they are pedigree - if they cannot then they don't race, simple as that! As it stand 2 owners and 4 dogs are going to be the downfall of the WCRA :angry:
 
as the only official regulative body in the UK, the kennel club should be interested in any case that questions any litter that is on it's data base. otherwise what does a KC registration stand for?
 
Mark Roberts said:
as the only official regulative body in the UK, the kennel club should be interested in any case that questions any litter that is on it's data base. otherwise what does a KC registration stand for?
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It seems the KC are hoping The Whippet Club will deal with it, and there are more committee members than just Mary Lowe, and Marcus Nelson. They have a meeting on 13th May, so who knows what will come of that. The KC did seem interested, so we shoudn't have a go at them just yet :D

We are supposed to be talking about the meeting, so get your thinking caps on, and think of some good questions to ask. The WCRA say they are going to be open on this now - lets see how many questions they actually answer -_-
 
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