A Warning Of Sorts......

Hi

I just wanted to write this thread so that other people may not have to go through what we experienced last week with our lovely boy Woody.

The fact is that over the past six months Woody had gradually gotten frail, little by little small changes appeared but because we have never had a dog live to old age, we just put the changes down to the ageing process.

I don't want anyone to ever have to experience the awful situation of Woodys final hours........

At first Woody just seemed a bit stiff getting up after a sleep and sometimes when he went to lie down he was a bit trembly as he lowered himself onto the sofa.

He became quite slow at times when we went for a walk, although at other times he kept up with the other dogs.

We noticed that from time to time he would scuff the nails on one of his back paws on the concrete as we walked him, just a tiny little scuff sound every once in a while...we put this down to dragging his feet a bit due to old age.

We also noticed that he would stand with his back feet further apart when standing still for any length of time, for example if someone stopped to talk to us on a walk.

When he drank from the water bowl he started to lick the far rim of the bowl, lapping the water from the far edge...we just put this down to his general stiffness and being a bit senile.

We also noticed that if we walked him, he didn't hold his head quite as high as he used to.

If he got in the way of the front door when we needed to shut it, he would back up rather than turn around to get out of the way.

Unbeknown to us all of these are symptoms of Wobblers Syndrome which is what killed Woody in the end........his cervical vertebrae( three at the base of his neck) were so compressed, the discs had gone and his spinal chord was being pinched, this caused his brain to send duff signals to his muscles, hence the sudden twisting of his neck and suddenly dropping to the floor.

Please everyone, just take a good look at your dogs and be sure that none are showing any of the above signs.....they appear very gradually and for several months the dog will not feel pain until the spinal chord gets pinched, then it gets really nasty.

It is very unfortunate that the vet on Friday either misdiagnosed Woody or knew what it was and for her own reasons made a huge error of judgement in not telling me the truth because she knows me( familiarity breeds contempt for sure)....however the practice principal told me on Saturday as we ended Woodys pain that he had Wobblers and as we talked, all the signs fell into place.

I won't blame myself for Woodys death because I could not have prevented it but I really sincerely wish I hadn't just assumed he was getting old because I could have saved him some pain.

I am very glad that he had a comfortable morning on Saturday and that when he actually died he wasn't in pain but it isn't much of a consolation.

Anyways, just do me a favour, if you see your dog looking a little more frail than it should take it to the vet for a check up even if it ends up being nothing, the alternative is a lot worse.

Read this.

By Linda March

Information Specialist

University of Illinois

College of Veterinary Medicine

Wobbler's syndrome, more technically called cervical vertebral instability (CVI) affects large breed, fast-growing dogs.

According to Dr. Alistair McVey, a veterinarian formerly at the University of Illinois College of Veterinary Medicine at Urbana, wobbler's syndrome is seen primarily in older Dobermans and younger Great Danes. The younger dogs normally come to the veterinarian at about 10 or 14 months of age with a clumsy or wobbly gait. The owner may think the dog is just not got it all together because it is growing so fast, but hidden bone changes have been taking place.

Older dogs may be ataxic (wobble) when they walk, especially in the hind end. The front legs may take short choppy steps as well. The older doberman likely has been having some difficulty getting around at home and progressively gets worse over time. The dog may also carry its head low because of the neck pain. Or, in some cases, the dog is acutely down and unable to stand.

"What happens is that these dogs look like they have arthritis and will be stiff. Then the dog will rupture a disc and be unable to stand or walk," notes Dr. McVey.

Once your veterinarian has decided that CVI is the problem, medical management may be advised. Restricted activity and cage rest for up to one month may be the order, as well as pain control medicine and anti-inflammatory drugs.

If medical management offers no improvement or the dog's condition gets worse, surgery may be indicated. Before the dog goes to surgery it needs to have a "work-up" done. This includes blood work to check the animal's ability to tolerate anesthesia, and to check clotting times before surgery. For older dogs, radiographs will indicate whether there are any cancer lesions in the chest.

If tumors are contributing to the problem, the veterinarian and the owner may choose not to do surgery and continue with the medical treatment for as long as the dog is comfortable. Survey radiographs of the vertebra in the neck followed by a myelogram (injecting a contrast agent around the spinal cord) allow the veterinarian to see where and how many lesions exist there. A CT scan (computer tomography) may also be helpful in determining how much damage has been done to the spinal cord.

"A good prognosis generally means the dog can return to function. It will be able to ambulate, urinate and defecate normally and be pain free. The dog will probably never be 'normal'. It will still have a strange gait, but will be able to get around without pain," notes Dr. McVey.

The best case is the dog that has been steadily getting more ataxic and suddenly goes down. These animals have ruptured a disc. This material can be surgically removed with good results.

If the bony changes have compressed the spinal column and caused atrophy (shrinkage), surgery can not correct it. Sometimes the best that can be hoped for is to stabilize the vertebral column and prevent further changes from occurring. There is no one best surgical technique for all animals. It depends on where the problem is and how many areas are affected.

If surgery is the choice made by owner and veterinarian, the owner must be aware of the extensive nursing care required when the dog comes home from the hospital. Immediately after a myelogram or surgery the dog is usually worse before it gets better. It may take from one week to two months for the pet to get up on its own.

To help prevent CVI in young animals, select a dog that doesn't have a history of this disease in its family line. Feeding a well-balanced diet without supplementing minerals is important for proper bone growth. Large breed, fast-growing dogs may also benefit from being switched to an adult food at an earlier age (for example six months). Good quality food will meet their requirements, but slow the rate of growth, thus avoiding problems later.

For older animals, about the only prevention is to use a harness instead of a leash to decrease the amount of pressure on the neck.

If you have any questions about cervical vertebral instability, call your veterinarian.

from what I understand, although this can be corrected with surgery, it is only a temporary correction and the condition redevelops, boney growth camn be removed but re grows, also if the vertebrae fuse, the dog only needs a fall or heavy knock to break its neck.

It is also unlikely that any vet will recommend orthopedic surgery of this type on a geriatric dog.

SORRY TO HEAR ABOUT THE LOSS OF WOODY.

I lost my Falcon in the same way, he was nearly 12 and my vet and I decided he was too old for surgery, so I let him go. It was about this time last year.

Lost my Sunny to the same type of symptoms....as you say....at first you put it down to old age. His condition went down hill in a few weeks. He didn't appear to be in pain....his quality of life just wasn't there.....so we let him go to the bridge

I was so sorry to read of your experience when losing Woody. I lost my Fly due to collapsed neck vertebrae 18 months ago - he was a week short of 13 when I had to let him go. His last 15 months of life were, looking back on it, the most dreadfully stressful time - he was a big strong dog with no other age-related problems, and his symptoms were intermittent for a long time - some days he would be bad, and then we would have a run of good days which made it an emotional roller-coaster of hope and despair. Thankfully he was not in any pain - other than the mental pain of not being able to run around - but while there is a chance that things will improve, you cling to that hope.

You couldn't have done any more than you did for Woody - neurological problems are notoriously hard to pinpoint, and the question of whether to operate on an older dog will always be a thorny one. You gave him a long and happy life - try not to blame yourself for the way it ended.

Eleanor Gibbins said:

I was so sorry to read of your experience when losing Woody. I lost my Fly due to collapsed neck vertebrae 18 months ago - he was a week short of 13 when I had to let him go. His last 15 months of life were, looking back on it, the most dreadfully stressful time - he was a big strong dog with no other age-related problems, and his symptoms were intermittent for a long time - some days he would be bad, and then we would have a run of good days which made it an emotional roller-coaster of hope and despair. Thankfully he was not in any pain - other than the mental pain of not being able to run around - but while there is a chance that things will improve, you cling to that hope.
You couldn't have done any more than you did for Woody - neurological problems are notoriously hard to pinpoint, and the question of whether to operate on an older dog will always be a thorny one. You gave him a long and happy life - try not to blame yourself for the way it ended.

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Hi thanks, surgery was out of the question because the condition is not curable and only temporary relief can be offered..this would not be fair to an oldie......sadly for us but blessedly for Woody, he was only having problems for one week, this is because his spinal chord had started to get pinched...he had just got a bit stiff etc up until ten days ago at which point he started having trouble with his neck...i'm really glad he didn't have long term problems because last week was roller coaster enough for me....I think the most telling thing about the condition with Woody was the staggering sideways which he only started to do in the last 24hrs of his life but the pain and twisting in his neck was awful............he had a bout of that three years ago and the vet at the time just thought it was a muscular problem as there were no other symptoms at all...so for three years he appeared normal and had no further obvious pain until ten days ago...the other symptoms he showed just seemed like he was aging but we've never had an oldie so didn't have anything to compare it to other than our other two oldies who seem much brighter but at the time we just figured some people age better some don't and assumed it was the same with hounds.

sorry to hear about your Woody, it's very considerate of you to warn us of this syndrome when you're feeling your loss so acutely.

Hope Woody's nice, happy memories can comfort you.

I'm so sorry to hear about your little dog, thanks for sharing this information, R.I.P little one. di

How very kind and considerate of you, especially just after loosing Woody to put the information on the forum for us all. :huggles:

I think we owe this act of kindness to our dogs at the end...and youve done the right thing for Woody...

hope hes running free now...and out of pain xxxx

Whippets Rule said:

Hi
I just wanted to write this thread so that other people may not have to go through what we experienced last week with our lovely boy Woody.

The fact is that over the past six months Woody had gradually gotten frail, little by little small changes appeared but because we have never had a dog live to old age, we just put the changes down to the ageing process.

I don't want anyone to ever have to experience the awful situation of Woodys final hours........

At first Woody just seemed a bit stiff getting up after a sleep and sometimes when he went to lie down he was a bit trembly as he lowered himself onto the sofa.

He became quite slow at times when we went for a walk, although at other times he kept up with the other dogs.

We noticed that from time to time he would scuff the nails on one of his back paws on the concrete as we walked him, just a tiny little scuff sound every once in a while...we put this down to dragging his feet a bit due to old age.

We also noticed that he would stand with his back feet further apart when standing still for any length of time, for example if someone stopped to talk to us on a walk.

When he drank from the water bowl he started to lick the far rim of the bowl, lapping the water from the far edge...we just put this down to his general stiffness and being a bit senile.

We also noticed that if we walked him, he didn't hold his head quite as high as he used to.

If he got in the way of the front door when we needed to shut it, he would back up rather than turn around to get out of the way.

Unbeknown to us all of these are symptoms of Wobblers Syndrome which is what killed Woody in the end........his cervical vertebrae( three at the base of his neck) were so compressed, the discs had gone and his spinal chord was being pinched, this caused his brain to send duff signals to his muscles, hence the sudden twisting of his neck and suddenly dropping to the floor.

Please everyone, just take a good look at your dogs and be sure that none are showing any of the above signs.....they appear very gradually and for several months the dog will not feel pain until the spinal chord gets pinched, then it gets really nasty.

It is very unfortunate that the vet on Friday either misdiagnosed Woody or knew what it was and for her own reasons made a huge error of judgement in not telling me the truth because she knows me( familiarity breeds contempt for sure)....however the practice principal told me on Saturday as we ended Woodys pain that he had Wobblers and as we talked, all the signs fell into place.

I won't blame myself for Woodys death because I could not have prevented it but I really sincerely wish I hadn't just assumed he was getting old because I could have saved him some pain.

I am very glad that he had a comfortable morning on Saturday and that when he actually died he wasn't in pain but it isn't much of a consolation.

Anyways, just do me a favour, if you see your dog looking a little more frail than it should take it to the vet for a check up even if it ends up being nothing, the alternative is a lot worse.

Click to expand...

My experience is that even vets often aren't very good at diagnosing spinal/neck injuries. One of the problems is that the symptoms come and go and when you take your dog to the vet, he may be having a "good" day and the vet thinks you are the neurotic one! And it is only when one lives with a dog that one is aware of these small changes. I ABSOLUTELY insist that my vet immediately put any dog that I suspect may have a neck injury on a short course of corticosteroids (preds). It is absolutely crucial to limit swelling, because this is what can cause permanent damage and paralysis. I am a paraplegic, so I don't take ANY spinal injury lightly.

Another TIP - Throw away all those TUG-O-WAR TOYS - they may look like fun, but are a big no-no in my opinion. To allow pups to play tug-of-war is a recipe for disaster. I absolutely shudder to think of the amount of damage it does to those young necks

Foxy (13) has this or something similar. The bones in her neck are crumbling and her spinal cord gets pinched causing her pain.

The first we noticed a few months ago was that in addition to having weak back legs, she sharted limping on her front leg. She has been on steroids for about 4 months now. Metacalm did not help at all. Although frail, she is not in any apparent pain. She often does not want to go out for a walk when asked and we do not force the issue. The steroids will in the long term worsen the crumbling and weakness of her bones and we know that she only has a matter of 6 - 12 months but as long as she remains pain free, we are fortunate enough to have some extra time. It sounds like Woody's condition was very sudden and acute.

I am sorry about Woody, you must miss him so much. I still miss Peat who had to be PTS in Feb this year. It is agonising to see a beloved pet in so much pain and be unable to do anything other than end it for them.

eve said:

Foxy (13) has this or something similar. The bones in her neck are crumbling and her spinal cord gets pinched causing her pain. The first we noticed a few months ago was that in addition to having weak back legs, she sharted limping on her front leg. She has been on steroids for about 4 months now. Metacalm did not help at all. Although frail, she is not in any apparent pain. She often does not want to go out for a walk when asked and we do not force the issue. The steroids will in the long term worsen the crumbling and weakness of her bones and we know that she only has a matter of 6 - 12 months but as long as she remains pain free, we are fortunate enough to have some extra time. It sounds like Woody's condition was very sudden and acute.

I am sorry about Woody, you must miss him so much. I still miss Peat who had to be PTS in Feb this year. It is agonising to see a beloved pet in so much pain and be unable to do anything other than end it for them.

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Hi Metacam didn't help Woody either but sadly we didn't get chance to try steroids, although to be honest he was past help that last week really.His condition was sudden to some extent but the signs of unsteadiness and stiffness and trembly back legs etc were all there, we just mistook them for simple old age.

Unfortunately we have noticed that Bryn our whippet cross is holding his head quite low on walks and scuffing his back feet when he walks, he is also making occasional tiny choppy steps with his front legs in particular.....he is twelve years old and dreadfully trembly, he has trembled for over a year but now does so even when he is lying down.....i think sadly we may be on the way to losing both him and Badger as well as having just lost lovely Woody.

It is interesting though that there seem to be quite a few oldie whippet having similar problems with their necks.

It sounds like Bryn may benefit from Steroids. Your vet should know. I now also put my dogs onto Glucosamimine Sulphate (not Hydrochloride) with Condriton when they get to 10 years old. I think it is too late to benefit Foxy much but Misty who is 10 has become more active.

How is Badger? Foxy (mum), Misty (sister) and Lilly went through a bad spell when Peat had to be PTS. That is when Foxy really went downhill, they were inseperable. She has not really bounced back. Misty (and I ) came around after Toddy arrived. He is such a whirlwind it did not leave us much time to grieve. Lilly is a changed dog as Toddy is her best friend. Foxy trembles quite a lot, is very unstable on her feet and is easily knocked over at which point she is unable to get up for several minutes and cries in fear. It is quite distressing. I know that she is not in pain at present. I will know when her time has come.

It must be a really hard time for you. I do hope that the situation improves for both dogs.

best wishes

eve

Whippets Rule said:

eve said:

Foxy (13) has this or something similar. The bones in her neck are crumbling and her spinal cord gets pinched causing her pain. The first we noticed a few months ago was that in addition to having weak back legs, she sharted limping on her front leg. She has been on steroids for about 4 months now. Metacalm did not help at all. Although frail, she is not in any apparent pain. She often does not want to go out for a walk when asked and we do not force the issue. The steroids will in the long term worsen the crumbling and weakness of her bones and we know that she only has a matter of 6 - 12 months but as long as she remains pain free, we are fortunate enough to have some extra time. It sounds like Woody's condition was very sudden and acute.

I am sorry about Woody, you must miss him so much. I still miss Peat who had to be PTS in Feb this year. It is agonising to see a beloved pet in so much pain and be unable to do anything other than end it for them.

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Hi Metacam didn't help Woody either but sadly we didn't get chance to try steroids, although to be honest he was past help that last week really.His condition was sudden to some extent but the signs of unsteadiness and stiffness and trembly back legs etc were all there, we just mistook them for simple old age.

Unfortunately we have noticed that Bryn our whippet cross is holding his head quite low on walks and scuffing his back feet when he walks, he is also making occasional tiny choppy steps with his front legs in particular.....he is twelve years old and dreadfully trembly, he has trembled for over a year but now does so even when he is lying down.....i think sadly we may be on the way to losing both him and Badger as well as having just lost lovely Woody.

It is interesting though that there seem to be quite a few oldie whippet having similar problems with their necks.

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I agree, it is interesting and worrying to read how many owners have gone through similar Cervical Vertebral Instabilty (CVI) symptoms with their oldies. It sounds as though 12 - 13 years is the age these symptoms develop in whippets. This is quite a bit older than the 9 years at which adult Dobes often display symptoms.

Fortunately it doesn't sound as if there are young whippets with this problem. Larger breeds like Danes and Dobes can exhibit symptoms at a very young age, where surgery is obviously an option which should be considered.

With their speed, prey instinct and light bone structure I suppose we should expect more neck injuries in our breed. But it worrying that so many oldies are developing degenerative neck problems.

It would be interesting to find out if CVI is more common in some bloodlines than in others Or am I tackling a bee hive by even mentioning something like this???

eve said:

It sounds like Bryn may benefit from Steroids. Your vet should know. I now also put my dogs onto Glucosamimine Sulphate (not Hydrochloride) with Condriton when they get to 10 years old. I think it is too late to benefit Foxy much but Misty who is 10 has become more active. How is Badger? Foxy (mum), Misty (sister) and Lilly went through a bad spell when Peat had to be PTS. That is when Foxy really went downhill, they were inseperable. She has not really bounced back. Misty (and I ) came around after Toddy arrived. He is such a whirlwind it did not leave us much time to grieve. Lilly is a changed dog as Toddy is her best friend. Foxy trembles quite a lot, is very unstable on her feet and is easily knocked over at which point she is unable to get up for several minutes and cries in fear. It is quite distressing. I know that she is not in pain at present. I will know when her time has come.

It must be a really hard time for you. I do hope that the situation improves for both dogs.

best wishes

eve

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Hi thanks.....Badger is actually getting back to being a bit more like his old self( excluding the heart problem)he is eating and drinking and he is a lot happier...the only sad thing is, he has decided that I am Woodys replacement and he is sticking to me like glue....he now waits on the dog bed in our hall by the front door until I get home and shadows me everywhere.

The heart problem is going to be re-examined next week when his antibiotics finish but one of the vets has told me that some heart murmurs can be very loud but not clinically significant so maybe there is hope...