A Dog-Walking Altercation

[Simon Degay]

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Hi there, my name's Simon.
I just wanted to get the thoughts of other dog owners regarding something which happened to me today. I have a three-year-old English Bullterrier cross who is a Romanian rescue dog. He actually looks more like a slightly enlarged Jack Russell.

Now, he's an incredibly 'bouncy' and social dog and he just loves meeting other dogs and people. If I'm honest, he can sometimes be a little full-on. That said (as far as we can ever predict the behaviour of our canine companions with any certainty), I'm pretty sure he'd never hurt another dog or person.

Near to the area of London in which I live there is a large public park with prominent "Dogs must be kept on a lead" signs everywhere. And there is also an area which used to be allotments but has been allowed to grow relatively wild. Technically it is also a public park, but in reality it more a cross between a nature reserve and a patch of wasteland.

Every day, after work (I work from home) I take Donnie to this area and we do three circuits together with him off the lead. He's a really high-energy dog who loves to run, and there's no way I could keep up with him. I suffer from depression, and over the years this has become an incredibly therapeutic part of my routine.

When I finish earlier in the evening, I often bump into a whole group of familiar fellow dog owners and we are all happy to let our dogs chase and run together. Today as I was rounding the park for the second time I heard someone shouting for me to put my dog on the lead. To be honest, the setting sun was in my eyes and I couldn't really see what was happening.

As I got nearer I could see that it was a guy with an enormous Rhodesian Ridgeback. The dog was on a chain lead and was wearing a broad leather collar with metal ornamentation. Oblivious to the potential danger, Donnie was trying to engage the beast in playful hijinks. The owner seemed to be having difficulty staying on his feet.

Now, he was not full of the joys of Spring and he was rather aggressively telling me that my dog should be on a lead. I tried to explain that generally, people went to the big park (one minute away) if they wanted to walk their dogs on a lead, but most people came here to let their dog run. Unsurprising he wasn't prepared to listen and it quickly degenerated into an expletive-laden slanging match.

Also, I'm 52 and I've lived with dogs all my life. I got a definite non-dog-owner vibe about this guy and very much got the idea that he probably kept this aggressive dog as a status symbol.

Anyway, to make matters worse, despite my increasingly desperate yelling, Donnie wouldn't stop 'pestering' this dog and I ended running around this guy and his dog in circles. I sensed that he was not impressed. Anyway, in traditional South London style, we parted with me suggesting that he find another park and him promising to do me physical harm the next time we met.

So what should I do now? Should I continue to run Donnie off the lead every day and hope I don't bump into this guy? I have some serious concern that this dog (and or perhaps his owner) could do physical harm to me or Donnie.

Should I continue to walk Donnie at this park but keep him on the lead? I have absolutely no quls about losing face, but he'll only get a fraction of the exercise he normally gets.

Maybe I should walk in the big park. He'd have to be on the lead, but at least there would be less chance of bumping into this guy. I'm a little resitant to this idea as I'm not sure that we should allow our lives to be so easily manipulated. And anyway, I love the small park.

Should all dogs always be on a lead in public areas? (90% people run their dogs off the lead in this area). Is it terrible that I was not able to get Donnie to respond to my command in this situation?

I'd really appreciate your honest opinions on this matter and how I should go forward.

 

[Kara 1]

Sorry you had this experience ... i think we have all been in this position ...
To be honest if you cant call your dog back whilst he is offlead in a public place then i would not let him off ...Unfortunately your dog could have been hurt by the other dog and as his was onlead you are deemed in the wrong....with people becoming more aggressive i would worry for your safety bumping into this guy again ...
I have a reactive dog that lives happily alongside 4 other dogs but if he is onlead and a friendly offlead dog bounds over he isnt happy and neither am i ....
One of my jack russells was an offlead dog for 3 yrs but due to him starting to suddenly go deaf on recall he now stays on a 10 metre flexilead on a harness and he gets lots of exercise. ..

 

[Mad Murphy]

Very sorry but if your dog is off lead where it shouldnt be you are at fault. If anything had happened you would have responsible.

Its all very well saying your dog is friendly but many of us live with dogs in need of space and the very last thing we need when walking our dog in a place we think we will be safe because we are obeying the rules is an off lead dog that comes bounding over for all sorts of reasons.
I am the owner of a dog who can be nervous and therefore reactive around other off lead dogs and the past owner of a dog who had a back injury and could have been paralyzed if another dog had jumped on him and of a blind dog who needed a bit of respect. We always chose ON lead areas to walk so that we wouldnt be molested..
It gets very tiresome for us too...

 

[Mayblossom]

Have you seen this dog and owner there before? Do you think it was a one off and he may not go back if he was finding it hard to hang onto his dog safely ,sounds like his dog would not be let off the lead .

 

[JudyN]

In an ideal world, people who had dogs who didn't like being approached would walk in the bigger area, and leave the smaller area for all the dogs who can happily mingle and may not have perfect recall. That way, everyone is happy.

Unfortunately though, the Golden Rule of dog walking is not to let your dog go up to an on-lead dog, and as the area is designated an on-lead area, the other person was within his rights to complain (even if he could have been better mannered about it).

It's also just occurred to me that if you did continue to let your dog run up to other dogs in this area, then the on-lead rule might be reinforced, thus meaning that the other dogs who aren't so likely to bounce up to on-lead dogs would lose out.

Is there enough visibility in the park so you can see people arrive before they get close enough for your dog to run up to them? Would you be able to use a long line on him, or possibly a trailing lead, so you could always reel him in when you spotted an on-lead dog?

 

[Ari_RR]

Should all dogs always be on a lead in public areas? (90% people run their dogs off the lead in this area). Is it terrible that I was not able to get Donnie to respond to my command in this situation?

Maybe not.... and maybe not terrible... in an ideal world.
But in the real world, if you continue to allow Donnie to run up to and engage unknown on-lead dogs - there is a good chance that he will get hurt.
I would look at this from Donnie's safety perspective too, not just based on human and canine etiquette.
Him running up to leashed dogs is dangerous.
Letting a dog off lead in a public place, where unknown humans and animals are, should be based on your ability to recall him if he gets close to crossing the line, and puts himself and others at risk.
If you can't do that - don't take chances.
I understand the value of off leash running, it's really great - but I would try to find a different place and/or time, where/when he is much less likely to get into a similar encounter.

 

[Rhythmpig]

Just goes to show you have to be on your A game all of the time. Mines got a really high prey drive. So I'm scanning all the time,so I can react to any situation before my dog does...one step ahead of the game. This way I can recall my dog and everyone is happy.

 

[merlina]

I really feel for you! I think the world is becoming more intolerant especially of dogs. I think you are doing the best for your dog trying to get him some freedom and in a city that's so hard. Firstly it might be worth making enquiries about the status of the area you describe. Maybe if it's not designated you and other dog owners could approach the council and suggest setting up a dog park? I think there should be places for dogs to run free in all urban areas. You can help sell it to the powers that be by pointing out the health benefits for dogs and owners.

 

[Simon Degay]

Thank you all for your kind replies. I also posted this question on Pets Forum, and you wouldn't believe the number of conceited and downright rude replies I received. The general census of opinion is that I should keep Donnie on a lead from now on. To be honest, he's a real nutcase (in the nicest possible way) and I don't think I'll ever feel sure that he'll return straight to me in situations like this. I think keeping him on the lead will actually protect him from other dogs and also go some way to protecting me

 

[Ari_RR]

You may want to consider a long lead. Not retractable, but a real long one. We have a 30 ft long and a 50 ft long, both work great once you get used to constantly rolling it up and letting go. But never attached to collar, only to harness

 

[Kara 1]

I have a 10metre professional flexi lead it is a thick tape one I found it safer for me than a longline the only downside is the handle weighs a ton !!!!
Always on a harness too ...

 

[Mad Murphy]

@Simon Degay its a pity the other group were not more balanced in their replies. But I think as with many questions/situations yours brings an emotional response.

I know its different in the UK but here in NL we have clearly marked on and off lead areas so that if people want to let the dog off they know they can go to off lead areas but this also means when people chose an on lead area they expect to be safe. My own response comes from having my dogs attacked while they were on lead in an on lead area by an off lead dog. It makes me very cautious of loose running dogs I often feel if the owner isnt obeying the leash law then what else will they ignore. Proof being in my on lead, blind beagle being bitten by a loose dog and the man telling me it was my fault! My new pup Murphy being bitten three times by the same JRT in an on lead area and the man getting physical with me when I complained. The police got involved in that!
Sadly someone like yourself will bear the brunt of all the emotion people carry when you ask a question such as your opening post.

With Murphy we have both a long 10 mtr flexi professional and a long line also 10mtrs.
The good and the bad
The flexi. pros; Easy to reel in, doesnt get all muddy and soggy can be operated in one hand.
cons; you cant see when you are nearing the end of the line, it is heavy (although as a woman walking alone that can be a plus) it makes a lot of noise clinking and clacking as you apply the brake and its expensive.

The long line. pros , its light when dry, you can see how much line you have, you can practice recall much easier than with a flexi, it can go in the washing machine when dirty , easy to see if there is any damage to the line.

The cons; when the weather is bad it gets wet and soggy and you always need gloves. You will need to practice before using it with your dog and it will take both hands and your full attention to work it properly (at least at first)

I hope you find a good soloution to the problems and as someone else has mentioned maybe its worth talking to the local council about a designated off lead area. Remember its very easy for councils to demonise dogs and their owners so no matter how daft the rules we try to play along because we know they have so much power over our dogs and if just a few of us dont play ball we all suffer from dog bans and leash rescrictions such as this Bootle grandmother, 80, fined £50 because her dog lead was 'too long' | Daily Mail Online

 

[Nanny71]

Dudley was attacked twice by off lead dogs. The thing about this was they were loose in the street. Both time owners apologised. I know the street I live in is not busy, but apart from Dudley being hurt it was dangerous for the dogs.
Whenever he sees either of these dogs he barks like crazy even though I have never seen them off lead since.

 

[Ari_RR]

And, just from the perspective of humans with large on-lead dogs in these situations....
It's not easy, trust me
We realize the perception - "the cute fluffy little one just wants to play", but that's not how our big ones see this, unfortunately.
So, we have to keep our big ones out of harm's way, we also worry about the little fluffy ones and want to make sure they don't get hurt, we keep in the back of our minds all the onlookers shaking their heads, and sometimes we have to deal with fluffy owners too... "he only wanted to say hello, your monster dog needs a muzzle"

Add to this having a bad day, not feeling well, for human or dog, and it's easy for such encounters to go sideways and quickly deteriorate into "YOU NEED A MUZZLE, NOT MY DOG!!" type of commentary.

Much better to avoid, if possible

 

[Nanny71]

As the owner of a small fluffy dog I do object to off lead dogs in a residential area attacking my dog.
Neither of the dogs that attacked Dudley were even wearing collars.

 

[Mad Murphy]

Lets face it any type of dog can cause trouble..big, small fluffy or not. The more important point is how the owner deals with it.
Because only antisocial owners continue to allow their dogs to cause problems.

 

[Nanny71]

Lets face it any type of dog can cause trouble..big, small fluffy or not. The more important point is how the owner deals with it.
Because only antisocial owners continue to allow their dogs to cause problems.

I do agree with you. There is space in this world for any type of dog. Dogs, by and large, are preferable to humans. Not a lot of problems where I live with dogs. Know most of them, some of them just give a nod and a hello. Others will stop for a chat.
I don't believe there is a one type suits all.

 

[NESS&NACHO]

I must agree with Ari on this one. I have just posted about my reactive dog attacking another dog. Mine was on lead and the other dog was off lead and ran up to us. Had the same reaction from the owner: “your dog needs a muzzle”. I always try to avoid dogs in the park and never let my reactive monster off lead but it really annoys me when a dog, as friendly as it may be, comes running up to us to say hi. I think it’s common courtesy to ask the owner if it’s ok for your dog to approach them before letting him do it. I’ve actually found a lot of owners answer that no, their dog is nervous, so we turn away. In general, if a dog is on a lead, there is a reason for it.

I would say you have all the right to keep your dog off lead, but only if his recall is flawless. Before he approaches unknown dogs, you should consult the owner. I even had to get a NO DOGS coat to make this absolutely clear. I am training my dog to wear a muzzle but if it weren’t for dog owners allowing their dogs to approach us, then I wouldn’t be in this position. Believe me, it has become a huge source of anxiety and annoyance when actually walks should be a nice time out.

 

[WildeM]

I also have a larger dog who dislikes cats and a few small dogs. It's always the larger dog that is seen as the aggressor even when they are well behaved and on a lead. His recall is good, he plays well with most dogs but I won't let him off lead if there are strange dogs about because if he is attacked by a smaller dog and he reacts, guess who would get the blame. No matter what size dog you have it needs to be under your control, he just wants to say hello does not cut it I'm afraid

 

[Dibbythedog]

Also had bad experiences with off lead dogs It frightening when you have tiny dogs , a big bouncy dog could hurt Libby chi unintentionally.

To the OP . I think your dog should be on a long line until he is good at recall , he could get hurt by another dog .