A Rethink Of The Weight Groups?

[Rob Rixon]

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Interesting unbalance to the weight groups at the WCRA Championships yesterday. While some groups were so big they needed extra rounds (Qtr Finals) or 5 dog heats, others had only 1 dog knocked out (only 5 runners in the heats) with automatic entry to a group final with two dog semis.

Some dogs ran 3 times and still didn't make the group final. Others didn't beat a single dog to reach their group final.

Is it time to rethink the Group weight limits?

 

[Joanna]

I think our dog was the only one to not beat a dog................I agree it doesn't seem quite right, we did think it was hilarious and hope that folk realise we are well aware that we got there by default only.

Edit to say, our other dog had to compete in quarters so there is some justice

 

[Judy]

I know what you mean but [SIZE=14pt]WELL DONE ARCHIE [/SIZE]anyway and good on you for entering him. Our Ziggy has managed a few finals by default too. We're never too proud to be delighted :lol: He even, occasionally, isn't last :teehee:

 

[June Jonigk]

Same for us too, with Dangermouse going straight to Veteran final without having beat another dog, but that's how it goes, and at almost 10 years old she's only there for the fun of having her last few runs before retirement (which she won't be pleased about ) We also have the other end of the stick with Sweep always having quarter finals in his group.

I'm not sure if anything could or should be changed though, because trends change, and sometimes there are fewer dogs in the lighter weight and heavier weight groups. Interesting that yesterday there were only 6 entries in n/e 16, and n/e 32lb groups. Changing any of the weight groups would then mean the weight group win records would never be beaten, and may even be forgotten.

I think the middle weight groups are always going to be the biggest just because 22-24lb is the weight of the average whippet. I'm not sure that will ever change either, as most people are trying to breed whippets that are not too small or too large to race.

I can't think of a perfect answer, so probably best left as they are. What do others think?

 

[Mark Roberts]

I didnt make a Final mine got knocked out in a fairly big group.

BUT owners cant help the fact that theres a small entry in a couple of groups at the end of the day they can only run against those entered.

you could combine the 30 + 32lb group but I cant see many 28 1/4lb owners wanting to run off scr with 32lbers neither would 14lb owners want to run off scr against 17 3/4lb whippets?

easy answer is buy a dog from a very big or small line that way it would be easyer?.

 

[Joanna]

BUT owners cant help the fact that theres a small entry in a couple of groups at the end of the day they can only run against those entered.

Absolutely...............Come on all you show bred owners, enter all your big boys and girls in the 32 lb group for August, it's all about having fun. Funnily enough, if I hadn't run my big lad, there would have been a 3 dog final, so the more the merrier.

 

[Paula Roberts]

Well done with Archie Joanna. :thumbsup:

 

[springfield]

Interesting unbalance to the weight groups at the WCRA Championships yesterday.  While some groups were so big they needed extra rounds (Qtr Finals) or 5 dog heats, others had only 1 dog knocked out (only 5 runners in the heats) with automatic entry to a group final with two dog semis.
Some dogs ran 3 times and still didn't make the group final.  Others didn't beat a single dog to reach their group final.

Is it time to rethink the Group weight limits?

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things maybe different in a couple of years,People may take a trend to owning a heavy or light weight.

 

[Strike Whippets]

Trends do change ......There were 12 in the n/e 16lb group at the first champs making that group only 3 dogs smaller than the 22lb group ........The 32lb group was also bigger last time .........but I do know what you are saying though

 

[Rob Rixon]

Thanks for your comments.

No one suggested breaking up the big groups into Dogs and Bitches (like BWRA).

I have no problem with the Vet groups being small - keeping a runner fit was Alan Jones' idea when Vet Racing Superstars was first introduced.

Back in 1894 the handicap table published went down to 5lbs (yes five pounds). This was created by Richard Baker before the KC agreed the Whippet Standard. Richard comments that there should be NO HANDICAP difference with Whippets weighing over 28lbs - I think this was born out again at Morton in Marsh with the timings. Fastest times were in 28lbs, and the 30lb and 32lbs groups times were close.

On this the evidence 30-32lbs could be combined.

 

[Joanna]

Thanks for your comments.No one suggested breaking up the big groups into Dogs and Bitches (like BWRA).

I have no problem with the Vet groups being small - keeping a runner fit was Alan Jones' idea when Vet Racing Superstars was first introduced.

Back in 1894 the handicap table published went down to 5lbs (yes five pounds).  This was created by Richard Baker before the KC agreed the Whippet Standard.  Richard comments that there should be NO HANDICAP difference with Whippets weighing over 28lbs - I think this was born out again at Morton in Marsh with the timings.  Fastest times were in 28lbs, and the 30lb and 32lbs groups times were close.

On this the evidence 30-32lbs could be combined.

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If you think that would be acceptable, and there is a need for change, why not plonk the 16 and 18's together and have a 21 a 22, a 23 and a 24lb group? I think change can be a good thing, but let's look at the bigger picture and overhaul it all, not just one small part of it! Perhaps it is some-thing which can be raised at the next WCRA talk in for discussion.

 

[Judy]

I understand what you are saying about the times but I can remember in some years that the fastest times were being won by 22lbers and on that evidence you would have amalgamated entirely different groups. Does it not just depend on who the current "wonder dogs" are?

Obviously the biggest groups numerically are always going to be the middleweight groups. Trying to get the weight groups right for an open is an age old problem. Its just about impossible to get even sized groups, partly because people will change weight groups so their dog can run off the back, the front, the left or the right - whichever suits the dog. And the the current popular breeding lines seems to effect it as well with more lightweight dogs being born in some years and heavyweights in others. :sweating:

 

[Strike Whippets]

It's hard work trying to keep everyone happy isn't it ?? ........They want scratch/they hate scratch ......the weight groups are wrong and never seem to change, but then when changed the racings boring .......Thank goodness Cotswolds is going to have fun days from now on .......can't be doing with the seriousness of it all :clown:

 

[June Jonigk]

Have you given up the idea of running opens then Hannah?

I think we need longer varying distances. The WCRA said they would try it, but have yet to do so - shame

 

[Strike Whippets]

Have you given up the idea of running opens then Hannah?
I think we need longer varying distances.  The WCRA said they would try it, but have yet to do so - shame 

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We have June .......We like most make a small profit for a big headache ........ We make more money in each of our January and February meetings than we do at an open .......Our bank account is healthy enough now so we don't need to do an open .......Over the years I've helped organise and run fun days (ie pet shows, ped shows, terrier and lurcher shows and racing etc ....) .....and to be honest they are A) FUN and B) much more profitable .......So yes we have mulled this over, between our members we know enough ped, terrier and lurcher judges ......we have the technology for the racing, and the space for the stalls .......so yes we think this is the way to go ......Easy, fun and we'd lose the every day moaners ..........

While we are on this subject of fun days.....Cotswolds members will be doing a racing demo in the main ring at Frampton country fair this year ..........At the mo we probably have enough dogs for the demo, but if anyone else would like to join us please feel free to email me and we'll get some tickets sorted :thumbsup:

 

[finalez]

Have you given up the idea of running opens then Hannah?
I think we need longer varying distances.  The WCRA said they would try it, but have yet to do so - shame 

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We have June .......We like most make a small profit for a big headache ........ We make more money in each of our January and February meetings than we do at an open .......Our bank account is healthy enough now so we don't need to do an open .......Over the years I've helped organise and run fun days (ie pet shows, ped shows, terrier and lurcher shows and racing etc ....) .....and to be honest they are A) FUN and B) much more profitable .......So yes we have mulled this over, between our members we know enough ped, terrier and lurcher judges ......we have the technology for the racing, and the space for the stalls .......so yes we think this is the way to go ......Easy, fun and we'd lose the every day moaners ..........

While we are on this subject of fun days.....Cotswolds members will be doing a racing demo in the main ring at Frampton country fair this year ..........At the mo we probably have enough dogs for the demo, but if anyone else would like to join us please feel free to email me and we'll get some tickets sorted :thumbsup:

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I agree with your comment Hannah with regards to organising and running opens and see this year a few clubs have cut the opens down to just 1 each ,but I do not think most of the clubs run an open for a big money spin(not any with brains anyhow) nor do they imo run club meets for profit,more just so that we can race our dogs and secondly to cover the overheads of being able to do so .

I think it would be a shame if clubs which do have a good bank balance ceased to have an open,it would be down to just the champs meeting each quarter(unless they felt rich enough).

Are the cots members giving up opens then or will they still be indulging?

 

[Strike Whippets]

I know what you are saying, but we have the bloke from hell backing onto our field ......With a fun day that all of the village and other people able to join in we'd be safe :thumbsup: ........... Our open racers belong to other clubs, and help these clubs out at open and club level .......... I'm sorry but we run this club all through the year for over 4 years now ......An open is just such a huge headache for us that we don't see it worth the bother at the moment ......Of course if we could make Mr Grumpy move far FAR away we'd probably be OK :lol:

 

[Judy]

Ooooooo! I don't know Hannah, I think he'll complain about terriers and lurchers etc. barking at a fun day too. I can't see that it will make that much difference in his eyes. Or ears. Village thingy or not. Maybe you could just send him on holiday

 

[Mark Roberts]

I think he'll complain about terriers and lurchers etc. barking at a fun day too.  I can't see that it will make that much difference in his eyes. Or ears. Village thingy or not. Maybe you could just send him on holiday

have to agree if he's going to moan he'll moan about anything.

just get some big lads on the gate LOL failing that take him out for a meal and drop him a micky then he'll sleep through the event lol (ONLY JOKING BEFORE ANYONE MOANS)