Advice Please!

[Scooter]

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Hello everyone. I have bought a whippet female puppy yesterday from someone who couldn't cope. She is a four month old, and very friendly and calm. :huggles:

We took our 4 and 1/2 year old whippet x bitch, Topaz, with us to see the puppy. In their house, they were ok, sniffing each other, until the puppy jumped up on us. Topaz became unhappy, but not violent. In the car, everything was ok. The puppy was on my lap, and Topaz was in the back seat as usual. But when we arrived our house, Topaz became completely MAD, and tried to attack/bite the puppy badly since. I think that she feels that the puppy is social threat to her.

We separated them with a gate and crate to avoid bloodshed, but Topaz has gone totally maniac, and uncontrollable just like when she sees cat. She is hyper- ventilating, and incessantly barking with blood shot eyes from the crate when she sees and hear the puppy, or us talking to the puppy.

It has been my concern that if Topaz would accept a new puppy. She has been a good companion to me. Fairly obidient. But when she sees a cat or we have visitors, she becomes emotionally over loaded and we can’t control her. She is a shy, timid dog, and very excitable. She is confused and insecure with new things. She used to be submissive to all dogs and puppies we used to meet during walks, but about a year ago, she has changed - I think she has grown up - she started snapping at the dogs she doesn't like if they come very close to her in a pesky manner, or I touch them.

My husband and I have tried to control her with Dog Whisperer way, but we have not succeeded. She is so over-charged that she is not able to react to anything sensibly. We, perhaps, haven't convinced her enough that we are the top dogs, that's why she can't snap out of this adrenalin-fed extreme excitement.

My husband suggests that we keep separating them, and we treat the puppy as our own puppy, that is, the puppy of Alpha dog and bitch. So, it is up to Topaz to join us, our pack, or stay as an outsider. He thinks that she will give in.

I would like to hear about other dog people's experiences.

Thanks for reading.

 

[lewington]

We also have a near 4 month old puppy and a 4yo female who is my devoted companion and personal assistant . When Rosie (the older dog) gets too agressive with the pup (Sophie) - ie treats her like a rabbit she is about to kill :blink: I call her off - fortunately she is a good listener - and then I praise her to the skies. I also make a point of still doing special things with Rosie like taking her on walks just with me and taking her to work with me so that she gets 'time out' from the puppy.

Your situation sounds a bit more tricky and I am not an expert. Good luck with sorting out your pack dynamics :luck: :huggles:

 

[June Jonigk]

Years ago we had a bitch called Bambi (also known as Bambi the B*****d :- " ) She had her own pups, and we kept two, which obviously she took to, but when we brought in a pup from outside she didn't take to her at all. For the pups safety, we put Bambi in a muzzle - one of the Baskerville type, as they can drink through them. She wore it for about 2 months in all. We separated them when we were out so she didn't have to wear it then. She eventually came round, and we caught her playing with the pup ) We risked her without the muzzle, and she was fine from then on.

 

[MISS MOLLIES MUMMY]

SO SORRY TO HEAR YOUR HAVING PROBLEMS . WE ARE GLUTTONS FOR PUNISHMENT WHERE OUR ANIMALS ARE CONCERNED ARENT WE.

I THINK YOUR HUSBAND MAY HAVE SOMETHING THERE. YOU DO BOTH DO NEED TO BE MORE ASSERTIVE PACK LEADERS, AND ALLOW YOUR BITCH TO COME AND JOIN YOUR PACK . SEPARATE THEM AND ALLOW SUPERVISED CONTACT ONLY . EVERYONE MUST KNOW THEIR PLACE. DO SPECIAL THINGS INVOLVING JUST YOUR OLDER BITCH AND REWARD HER GOOD BEHAVIOUR.

YOU CAN BUILD HER CONFIDENCE (WHICH SHE IS LACKING ) BY GAMES OF TUG OF WAR WITH YOU AS PART OF A REWARD WHEN SHE IS GOOD. ALLOW HER TO WIN THESE GAMES .

IT WILL TAKE CONSTANCEY AND PATIENCE.

GOOD LUCK LOVE FROM ME , BEN MOLLIE AND HARRY. :huggles:

 

[Scooter]

Thank you all for your replies and kind wishes.

One thing I noticed during this morning's walk was Topaz became a model obedient dog! No sniffing, no picking food from the road (her favourite past time :b ), or no puling. She just walked next to me like a pro in a heel position for about 40 minutes!!!

At least, there was one good thing came out of this! :thumbsup:

I got a muzzle for her during the walk. When she settles a bit, we will use it. At this moment, Topaz would go for the pup's throat! ( Topaz is sleeping like an angel in the chair in my office right now o )

Ironically I wanted to have another puppy three years ago, but my husband didn't. I, a kind of gave up on the idea, but this winter, he somehow wanted to have a puppy on his own! ( A saluki pup, precisely) After such a long wait, I really want this to be a happy ending.

Thanks again. I will report how they will get on.

 

[Rae]

It sounds like you could possibly have a bigger issue than just the puppy here, perhaps it would be worth getting some professional advice in your home. (Can your Vet recommend anyone reputable?)

I really do feel for you, it's a hard situation to be in, one mistake could cost the puppy badly.

If it were me I'd also muzzle Topaz, make sure she gets plenty of exercise, and that the puppy goes with you so that they can interact on neutral groud, but also return home together as a 'pack'. Be very firm with her so she knows you wont tolerate her behaviour and keep her on a lead in the house so you can control her.

Good luck :luck:

 

[Scooter]

Hi Rae, thank for your advice. I have thought about a dog behaviourist. I want Cesar Milan to come, if he could! I was going to ask if any of you can recommend someone in South East. I didn't think about asking a vet. I will also ring them.

I am sorry I didn't make myself clear, but the muzzle I have just bought is for Topaz. Or, did you actually mean that the puppy should also wear one?

Last night, I felt that there is no way I could keep the puppy after I found how badly Topaz was reacting to the new arrival. When she lunged at the pup in the crate, the whole crate moved toward the pup! :wacko: But the tones in the barks has changed this morning. I could hear more begging tones. She started listening to me :luck: So I started having a hope.

I also think that we have to be very firm on her, as you said. Zero tolerance on violence. She has to know what is expected by our pack member.

Right now, even with muzzles on, I can't take both together. But when hubby is around we will take both to an unfamiliar place, and perhaps walk or at least try to walk together. In the meantime, I am taking each for a walk at a time. That makes 8 walks a day! At least I will be very fitter and hopefully slimmer

Thanks again.

 

[TTT]

I think it might help if you can walk the dogs together, granted only short walks as your puppy is so young. Walking, both on the leads and marching on, no twiddling about, no patting or fussing or talking - marching, like a pack on a mission. Surely your husband could help do this. Buy another crate - keep both dogs in the crates, partly covered with blankets to make them feel secure, and you feel calm, knowing they can come to no harm. When you have them out of the crates together keep leads on them so that if need be, you can separate them safely and avoid getting bitten if they kick off. If your older bitch is used to being an only dog and maybe not socialised to be calm and confident, she probably will take a while to adjust. Try to keep calm yourself and the dogs will pick up your mood. Make life easy for yourself by using crates.

In a few weeks i hope to see pics of them playing together then flopping down in a pile for a snooze. -_- :huggles:

Please keep us updated on the progress.

 

[Scooter]

TTT, thanks for your very helpful and practical pieces of advice.

We have been a bit frazzled by all these (lots of barking, some toilet accidents as well as me trying to work at home in noise and mess), :wacko: however we have a good news. Please get your hankies ready. We had a breakthrough!

The third day since the pup now called Pearl, arrived, I had a long quiet 'chat' with mad Topaz. She was in her crate barking furiously at the pup who was in front of the crate. I had stroked Topaz and told her 'I know you are kind and gentle, but you are very confused. You will love the puppy, and you will have a great fun with her. You are going to be her friend'. LO and BEHOLD, she calmed down. I was very surprised! This was a turning point.

We bought another crate and another baby gate to separate them safely.

With some encouragement, Topaz accepted the pup over the baby gate. After a couple of days of relatively peaceful time over the gate, on Saturday, we tried to walk them together, like you suggested, but Topaz turned aggressive and she became out of control.

I was making sure that both have really good exercise, especially Topaz, to wear off excess energy. During the walk yesterday, there was a couple of thunder which she is very scared of. I took the advantage of situation. As soon as we came home, I put her with the pup without the gate, both on leads, as you suggested, and took them into the garden. That was a breakthrough. After that, yesterday evening, they had spent together in the same room, and this morning, as my hubby took a day off, we, for the first time, went for a walk together! :cheers: They ran together and slept together afterwards. It was a great relief. We could finally have a relaxed time with them.

We didn't expect that we will achieve this so soon. Our joy is beyond words! I would like to thank all people who have given us kind thoughts and very good advice. Last Sunday, we couldn’t imagine that they will play together so soon. It was like a miracle.

I would post some pictures tomorrow. For now, we need to catch up with lost sleep, and get some rest. Being a full-time working Mum with a toddler (the pup), a delinquent teenager (Topaz) as well as three parrots, two chickens and a flock of finches is, I found, exhausting. But it is sweet and I will enjoy every second of it.

Talk to you soon!

:huggles:

 

[peppermint lady]

very pleased for you im sure they will become best friends :huggles:

look forward to pictures :cheers:

 

[fallenangel]

if you can stay carm topaz will stay carmer when your getting upset and wound up topaz things its the puppy thats making you like this so hse proteting you by trying to get rid of the puppy. when topaz is with the puppy mak it wondrfull for her treets toys everything she loves and i know this is hard but infront of topaz try not to respond to the pup. if she doesnt see the pup as a threat to her or you or your time with her she should be abell to exsept the pup better. as others have said get them out togethere on nutral ground try places Topaz hasnt been before so she does not asociat the aria as hers.

when we used to foster we would take our own dogs out and meet the foster dog outside for the first meeting and try and get every shatterd before walking home. there are lots of us here with very big multy dog houesholds and it can and dos work realy well but you must be the boss. hope things sort out soon

Wendy

 

[Scooter]

if you can stay carm topaz will stay carmer when your getting upset and wound up topaz things its the puppy thats making you like this so hse proteting you by trying to get rid of the puppy.

Wendy, this is so true! It is a real insight! I didn't understand it at the beginning. Topaz reflects our energy level. Over the years, I have learnt not to panic easily, and even when I do, I have learnt to do it silently. Topaz responded to my calm still assertive leadership very well, and I am amazed how closely humans and dogs can communicate! I have learnt a lot this time, and I am sure there will be much more for me to learn. Thanks! )