Advice please :)

[Charliesneenee]

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Hi there

I have 2 dogs, both boys.

A yorkie who is soon to be 2 and a Bichon who is nearly a year.

Until very recently they were the best of pals and very close ( and still are most days) but a few weeks ago they began to fight for no apparent reason.

The fights can be very heated , afterwards both dogs are very wary of each other' for a while but will then clean & lick each other as normal and play fight.

They sleep together in a large cage, again very close.

I am worried that they will hurt each other and am unsure what to do.

They are both very loved and pine for the other if apart.

It has been suggested that they should be castrated,will this help?

If so why?

Thanks in advance

 

[broxi3781]

I am not speaking from experience, my female dogs have always been spayed, but we have not neutered the males. I have read that castration does help a great deal with male to male aggression, but is less likely to be effective after fights have started. Still I would certainly give it a try at is very likely that the younger male is coming into adulthood now and they are striving for the role of dominant male -or perhaps something closer to teenage male hormones. It is also worth noting that neither breed is the type to want to continue a fight to the death, if you were keeping Rottweilers or Staffies, I wouldn't hold out much hope for castration working, with small breeds I would be quite hopeful. By reducing the testosterone, you should reduce the need to dominate, and aggression in general. You will also find unneutered males tend to get very nasty towards each other when a bitch is in heat nearby as the natural urge to eliminate the competition will be removed. Alternatively. I assume the Yorkie is the more dominant of the two. If this is the case, you might consider neutering only the Bichon. When two males are on equal footing they are more inclined to fight, if one is significantly more dominant than the other, there is less likely to be trouble, or if one no longer sees the other as a threat. I'd suggest discussing all the pros and cons of neutering one or both with your vet, as well as doing some research on positive and negative aspects of neutering. Personally, I chose not to neuter after quite a lot of research, but I only own one male and a spayed female. If I owned two males though, I would neuter, but it is not a guarantee that they will resolve their issues, it simply increases the odds. It is also entirely possible that they will resolve matters on their own, that this is just a temporary spell as they resolve pack hierarchy, but it still pays to be vigilant.

I am also a huge believer of the saying that tired dogs are good dogs, I would suggest as much exercise as possible while you are working this out, but my main reason for replying is to mention that it would be best if they are supervised whenever they are together. Two wire crates side by side would still allow them each others company at night without the risk, but most importantly if you are out of the house, keep them apart. I've known too many people who have come home to dead or near dead dogs, including myself on one occasion with a dog and bitch who had been realised together and never shown the slightest indication of aggression. Thankfully they recovered, but we did end up having to rehome the bitch as much as it broke my heart. Luckily the vet had a good client who was looking for a dog and she met all of his requirements. To this day though I believe had I been home, |I could have stopped the fight and then there would not have been so much bad blood between the two so I could have kept both. Better safe than sorry, they can do an incredible amount of damage in very little time.

Finally, I would suggest familiarising yourself with ways to break up a fight if needed. Shouting, screaming or worse hitting usually do nothing but escalate aggression. The old garden hose is a waste of time. If you are experiencing problems with aggression. The best way of breaking up a fight is to grab each dog by the collar - which can be difficult if you are alone, but it can be done. Do not pull the dogs apart. Doing this rips at the flesh that is held in the other dog's teeth. Instead twist the collar reducing air supply and push the dogs nose towards the dog it is biting. It eventually has to let go to get a breath, then you pull them apart. Of course there is always the risk of being bitten. I have complete faith in my own dogs to the point that that I have put my fingers into the mouth of a dog who did not obey my command to drop it immediately after being attacked, but I wouldn't recommend it. My dogs have been trained from puppyhood to drop on command and to have my fingers in their mouth prying the jaws open if they don't. I have separated several dogs that were not mine as well and only ever been bitten once, as I tried to block an aggressive dog from my dogs, but I would rather be bitten than have my dogs hurt. Your dogs are quite small, so it shouldn't be too rough.

good luck and I certainly hope this passes soon.

 

[Biker John]

I would only add to the above that the vet can supply a chemical castration which is temporary, with this you can see what they are like without getting an irreversible operation done.

 

[broxi3781]

I was not aware that you could have the chemical castration done in the UK. It certainly does sound like it would be worth looking into, since it is reversible. They used to just push neuter no matter what, and some vets still do, but there are both positive and negative aspects to neutering. It is something you really need to be informed on before you take the plunge. Personally, I feel if there is any chance of your dog producing unwanted pups, neutering is non optional. However, most of the people who read or post on forums keep their dogs in a safe secure place or under their direct control all the time anyway, so I doubt this is an issue.

I came back online though because I thought of something I should have asked the first time. You have mentioned that the fights have been quite heated, so I assumed they have drawn blood, but sometimes assumptions come back and bite you in the rear. If by chance they are rolling about making all sorts of noise, but not drawing blood, it is not nearly as serious. I have found that the nosiest fights are usually the least serious anyway. It is the one that are dead silent or perhaps only a low deep rumbling sound that really worry me.It is still a bit of a warning sign, but fairly common as dogs establish their position in regards to each other. My mother and I each owned female staffies at one time, and when I would visit they were usually best of friends. However they had a few fights which sounded like they were ready to commit bloody murder, but there was never a scratch on them barring the last time when my mother panicked and started screaming, after which her dog bit mine drawing blood. After that we kept the dogs separate until they managed to open a door and spent the day frolicking about having the best of times without us there. I spoke to an experienced trainer and was advised that a bit of growling and such was normal as they re established their roles. ( They had been raised together in a kennel but I bought one and my mother felt sorry for the other and went back and bought it). Our fears were pushing what was normal behaviour into protective mode as the dogs then felt they had to defend their owners. Of course the smaller bitch bit when my mother screamed, she thought her owner was in danger. We still discouraged growling and such, but by distraction without making such a major issue and the dogs remained friends for the rest of their lives.

 

[chelynnah]

I would suggest if at all possible, that until the situation is resolved that you don't crate them together any more. If something happened while you were out, you could sadly come home to find one dead. The wrong word said in a small space could be all it takes to set one off, and with nowhere to get away... It doesn't warrant thinking about.

Castration is often cited as the be all and end all of problem solvers - it isn't. It 'can' be, but if there are underlying problems, then it won't make a bit of difference. So the way to test the theory would be to try chemical as suggested above and see how that works. It can take up to 2 months for testosterone levels to drop, so you won't see results straight away - and you wouldn't with real castration either.

Also Castration on its own is never the answer, you need to work with some training and maybe helping them develop new habits. Speaking with a behaviourist could be really beneficial in this instance. COAPE or APDT registered.