As Generations Pass

[Glen Loth]

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Without the aid of performance based selective breeding do you think your chances of obtaining a whippet of satisfactory working ability from "show only " kennels will decrease as generations of show only breeding pass??

 

[bertha]

Without the aid of performance based selective breeding do you think your chances of obtaining a whippet of satisfactory working ability from "show only " kennels will decrease as generations of show only breeding pass??

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I don't quite understand your question, are you asking if the working ability might get bred out of show only whippets? So obtaining one with working ability would be difficult?

 

[June Jonigk]

Without the aid of performance based selective breeding do you think your chances of obtaining a whippet of satisfactory working ability from "show only " kennels will decrease as generations of show only breeding pass??

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I thought there were plenty of people breeding working bred whippets :- "

 

[Judy]

Without the aid of performance based selective breeding do you think your chances of obtaining a whippet of satisfactory working ability from "show only " kennels will decrease as generations of show only breeding pass??

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I would think this question has already been answered as many show bred dogs have been bred for show for many generations now and any change in abilities is already likely to have occurred and probably won't change much more. Apparently it only took about 5 generations to turn coursing greyhounds into track greyhounds (with the extra speed) when greyhound racing started. It seems that, after a certain number of generations of breeding for a particular purpose, very little change is made after that. Obviously brilliant individuals will appear but the breed as a whole doesn't change ie you can't just breed faster and faster whippets or greyhounds as they are limited by biomechanical factors. Presumably that happens the other way round when we are talking about losing certain traits.

Just thought I would add that I'm not saying show bred dogs have lost working ability just that if they have, after so many generations of being bred for the show ring they wouldn't just keep on losing more and more abilty. Of course, the breed standard, being man made, may change again (or the way it is interpreted) and then that may affect their abilities for worse or better.

 

[nigelmcfc]

a note recieved from arron atmore which i thought may be relevant to this :-

"....it is a well established fact that three distinct types of greyhound exist today ( though the english bred coursing type is under particular threat, the irish park type developing in its own direction). Breeders select lines to suit thier particular needs. the track enthusiast breeds from successful track stock, only the best are utilised in order to hopefully produce the best possible progeny. to this end compare the relative weights of track and coursing greyhounds, track dogs tend to average at approx 65lbs, coursing dogs on the park can reach wieghts of 100lbs or over. the show bred dogs are starting to resemble caricature of greyhounds, they are heading the same way as many poor show types as the breed standards are grossly exaggerated to thier detriment( i do feel that certain breeds are in such a state their breeders should be charged with cruelty- unable to give birth naturally, deformed to a point they cant perform thier original function, etc, etc)...."

"....another point to consider is that Master M'Grath was 52lbs, Miss Glendyne 54lbs, Fullerton 66lbs,, etc etc, we can see that breeding has changed the type completely to dogs virtually twice the size, not only weight but height, this reflects the change in coursing, particuarly on the park...."

"....Anybody breeding should be aware they hold the future of the breed in their hands and the type that will be available. in my humble opinion only work or physical test of the breed can ensure the best for the breed, show standards have proved themselves to be dangerous things in the wrong hands, performance highlights any problems which can then be removed, again, i reiterate, no one breeds from a slow coursing or racing greyhound, this alone ensures a healthy future for the breed....."

".....i see someone sugested that racing greyhounds are faster than coursing dogs. this is wrong, as a glance at the clocks at a park coursing field will clearly show, track bred dogs rarely succeed, and dont tend to have the stamina or robustness to keep going through a coursing stake, they are bred for the track! a circular track, in a staight line they can not compete with coursing greyhounds....."

his rant continued but i thought i would provide a brief taste of it!!

cheers nigel

 

[rustic]

a note recieved from arron atmore which i thought may be relevant to this :-
"....it is a well established fact that three distinct types of greyhound exist today    ( though the english bred coursing type is under particular threat, the irish park type developing in its own direction). Breeders select lines to suit thier particular needs. the track enthusiast breeds from successful track stock, only the best are utilised in order to hopefully produce the best possible progeny. to this end compare the relative weights of track and coursing greyhounds, track dogs tend to average at approx 65lbs, coursing dogs on the park can reach wieghts of 100lbs or over. the show bred dogs are starting to resemble caricature of greyhounds, they are heading the same way as many poor show types as the breed standards are grossly exaggerated to thier detriment( i do feel that certain breeds are in such a state their breeders should be charged with cruelty- unable to give birth naturally, deformed to a point they cant perform thier original function, etc, etc)...."

"....another point to consider is that Master M'Grath was 52lbs, Miss Glendyne 54lbs, Fullerton 66lbs,, etc etc, we can see that breeding has changed the type completely to dogs virtually twice the size, not only weight but height, this reflects the change in coursing, particuarly on the park...."

"....Anybody breeding should be aware they hold the future of the breed in their hands and the type that will be available. in my humble opinion only work or physical test of the breed can ensure the best for the breed, show standards have proved themselves to be dangerous things in the wrong hands, performance highlights any problems which can then be removed, again, i reiterate, no one breeds from a slow coursing or racing greyhound, this alone ensures a healthy future for the breed....."

".....i see someone sugested that racing greyhounds are faster than coursing dogs. this is wrong, as a glance at the clocks at a park coursing field will clearly show, track bred dogs rarely succeed, and dont tend to have the stamina or robustness to keep going through a coursing stake, they are bred for the track! a circular track, in a staight line they can not compete with coursing greyhounds....."

his rant continued but i thought i would provide a brief taste of it!!

cheers nigel

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weve been down this road before its the same topic as we had a few weeks ago

while ever people are working whippets there will always be working whippets for

sale thus carrying the working lines on ,many people infact work supposedly show bred whippets and are more than happy with them

 

[June Jonigk]

a note recieved from arron atmore which i thought may be relevant to this :-
"....it is a well established fact that three distinct types of greyhound exist today    ( though the english bred coursing type is under particular threat, the irish park type developing in its own direction). Breeders select lines to suit thier particular needs. the track enthusiast breeds from successful track stock, only the best are utilised in order to hopefully produce the best possible progeny. to this end compare the relative weights of track and coursing greyhounds, track dogs tend to average at approx 65lbs, coursing dogs on the park can reach wieghts of 100lbs or over. the show bred dogs are starting to resemble caricature of greyhounds, they are heading the same way as many poor show types as the breed standards are grossly exaggerated to thier detriment( i do feel that certain breeds are in such a state their breeders should be charged with cruelty- unable to give birth naturally, deformed to a point they cant perform thier original function, etc, etc)...."

"....another point to consider is that Master M'Grath was 52lbs, Miss Glendyne 54lbs, Fullerton 66lbs,, etc etc, we can see that breeding has changed the type completely to dogs virtually twice the size, not only weight but height, this reflects the change in coursing, particuarly on the park...."

"....Anybody breeding should be aware they hold the future of the breed in their hands and the type that will be available. in my humble opinion only work or physical test of the breed can ensure the best for the breed, show standards have proved themselves to be dangerous things in the wrong hands, performance highlights any problems which can then be removed, again, i reiterate, no one breeds from a slow coursing or racing greyhound, this alone ensures a healthy future for the breed....."

".....i see someone sugested that racing greyhounds are faster than coursing dogs. this is wrong, as a glance at the clocks at a park coursing field will clearly show, track bred dogs rarely succeed, and dont tend to have the stamina or robustness to keep going through a coursing stake, they are bred for the track! a circular track, in a staight line they can not compete with coursing greyhounds....."

his rant continued but i thought i would provide a brief taste of it!!

cheers nigel

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

weve been down this road before its the same topic as we had a few weeks ago

while ever people are working whippets there will always be working whippets for

sale thus carrying the working lines on ,many people infact work supposedly show bred whippets and are more than happy with them

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

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:thumbsup:

 

[Glen Loth]

a note recieved from arron atmore which i thought may be relevant to this :-
" the show bred dogs are starting to resemble caricature"

"....Anybody breeding should be aware they hold the future of the breed in their hands and the type that will be available. in my humble opinion only work or physical test of the breed can ensure the best for the breed, show standards have proved themselves to be dangerous things in the wrong hands, performance highlights any problems which can then be removed, again, i reiterate, no one breeds from a slow coursing or racing greyhound, this alone ensures a healthy future for the breed....."

exactly!!

cheers :cheers: