Border Terrier almost 13 years old.

[Richardhb.]

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Hello all.

My little Border has hurt her back left leg, She has been on Metacam for arthritis about a year, but this last incident happened about a week ago, has left her very lame. We will have an XRAY if she does not improve by next week. The vet thinks it could be a sprain, as she can move it about on examination, so she does not think it's a break. She is a very hardy dog, when it comes to pain, and we hate to see her suffer at all. At her age, we are loathed to have surgery, even if we could afford 3-4k for something like a cruciate ligament problem. She has arthritis in her back legs, but in good health otherwise, weight a touch over. X-rays will tell us what it is, but she will have to have general anaesthetic, so risk. Then if we do have surgery another one, we are just looking for options really. Her leg problem started about a week ago, and she still cannot put it down? Should I wait longer to see if it improves, she does a lot of paw licking, as sign I'm told that she could be in pain? Thanks all.

 

[Feverfew]

Difficult to advise and your best option may be to follow your vet's guidance, or to get a second opinion if you are not quite confident or comfortable with the advuce.

Anaesthetics are very safe these days, but of course there's always a risk attached. I would not say 13 is too old, especially in small breeds, but there are successful alternatives to surgery even if it's a cruciate ligament tear.

What is beyond dispute is that it's going to require some meticulous nursing care, such as crate rest, physiotherapy and medication. Sounds as if you are already familiar with a lot of that.

You could ask your vet about alternatives to metacam, especially for what is now an acute condition rather than chronic arthritis. Metacam is quite an old fashioned drug these days, and it can cause stomach upsets, so ask about Galliprant or Onsior. Panedol (basically paracetamol) is a good all-round painkiller for injuries.

Finally, I always encourage owners to look at the Canine Arthritis Management (CAM) website and Facebook page, run by vet Hannah Capon. It has tons of expert, free advice and is a really good resource for making adaptations for dogs with arthritis. There is so much you can do that costs virtually nothing.

Good luck, and do report back on how she's getting on.

 

[excuseme]

Regards the Arthritis.
We have an 11 year old Cocker Spaniel who was diagnosed back in the summer with arthritis in a front shoulder (our dogs work in the shooting season). To my horror the vet prescribed Metacam to be used whenever required.
Straight away she had Metacam for 2 days only, and at the same time I started treating her with "Turmeric", " Lamberts " high potency 20,000mg, 1/2 a tablet a day in the morning. She is working with us this season in the beating line without any problems. She was a bit stiff one morning after a very hard day and had a one off only dose of Metacam.

The Turmeric had been prescribed for an elderly Cocker of ours 10 years ago who was also suffering from arthritis. She was weaned off (by our vet) of conventional painkillers slowly, while at the same time the "Turmeric" was being introduced alongside, until only the Turmeric was being used. This treatment helped her through her remaining years comfortably.
Our dogs are lean but not thin and skinny. I take great care that our older girls, if not working do not put weight on.

 

[JoanneF]

My dog had surgery for a cruciate ligament injury at a little bit younger than yours, but not much. The anaesthetic wouldn't be my main concern but you can have bloodwork done beforehand to check organ function. It would add a little to the cost but would give you peace of mind.

 

[Richardhb.]

Difficult to advise and your best option may be to follow your vet's guidance, or to get a second opinion if you are not quite confident or comfortable with the advuce.

Anaesthetics are very safe these days, but of course there's always a risk attached. I would not say 13 is too old, especially in small breeds, but there are successful alternatives to surgery even if it's a cruciate ligament tear.

What is beyond dispute is that it's going to require some meticulous nursing care, such as crate rest, physiotherapy and medication. Sounds as if you are already familiar with a lot of that.

You could ask your vet about alternatives to metacam, especially for what is now an acute condition rather than chronic arthritis. Metacam is quite an old fashioned drug these days, and it can cause stomach upsets, so ask about Galliprant or Onsior. Panedol (basically paracetamol) is a good all-round painkiller for injuries.

Finally, I always encourage owners to look at the Canine Arthritis Management (CAM) website and Facebook page, run by vet Hannah Capon. It has tons of expert, free advice and is a really good resource for making adaptations for dogs with arthritis. There is so much you can do that costs virtually nothing.

Good luck, and do report back on how she's getting on.

That is very reassuring, I'm grateful for all that advise.

 

[Richardhb.]

Regards the Arthritis.
We have an 11 year old Cocker Spaniel who was diagnosed back in the summer with arthritis in a front shoulder (our dogs work in the shooting season). To my horror the vet prescribed Metacam to be used whenever required.
Straight away she had Metacam for 2 days only, and at the same time I started treating her with "Turmeric", " Lamberts " high potency 20,000mg, 1/2 a tablet a day in the morning. She is working with us this season in the beating line without any problems. She was a bit stiff one morning after a very hard day and had a one off only dose of Metacam.

The Turmeric had been prescribed for an elderly Cocker of ours 10 years ago who was also suffering from arthritis. She was weaned off (by our vet) of conventional painkillers slowly, while at the same time the "Turmeric" was being introduced alongside, until only the Turmeric was being used. This treatment helped her through her remaining years comfortably.
Our dogs are lean but not thin and skinny. I take great care that our older girls, if not working do not put weight on.

So true, in just a fortnight Daisy has ballooned in weight. Thanks.

 

[Richardhb.]

My dog had surgery for a cruciate ligament injury at a little bit younger than yours, but not much. The anaesthetic wouldn't be my main concern but you can have bloodwork done beforehand to check organ function. It would add a little to the cost but would give you peace of mind.

May I ask the cost of that surgery?

 

[JoanneF]

I think it was around £4500 altogether, he was covered by insurance. But I'd add, my vet is very keen on things like weekly followup appointments which, to be honest, were probably not all necessary.

 

[JudyN]

There are also monthy injections for arthritis, called Librela. These seem to give good results and don't have the same side-effects as oral medications. Unfortunately, Librela wasn't suitable for my dog as he was needle phobic. After trying a couple of medications (Metacam and Galliprant) that both upset his stomach, we found that Onsior suited him really well. It's only supposed to be licensed for a few day's treatment be he took it for several months without any problem at all. Of course, all dogs differ, and others may have different experiences.

 

[Richardhb.]

It's not easy to know what to do for the best for her to be honest. Can anyone give a guide to how long a sprain, or muscle pull might take to repair? It's only been a week in truth, and she is happy hopping around, but still cannot put her leg down. Her medication continues, so I'll wait a little longer (maybe another week) then back to the vets for advise. Could be X-ray next step, but full surgery if it was £4k would be out of the question. We had insurance up to when she was 10, then the cost was silly money.

 

[JoanneF]

Soft tissue injuries take a long time to heal. If you do need to look at surgery, shop around. My vet is quite an expensive one.

 

[Feverfew]

Richard, do you qualify for treatment with the PDSA? Pensioners do, and also people on certain benefits. Just a thought.

 

[Richardhb.]

So had to bite the bullet, as the little girls back leg os no better. Apparently 3 X-rays are £460.????

Amazing how my dentist does it for peanuts?

 

[JoanneF]

It may be partly because your might need to be sedated to make sure she is still. Your dentist can tell you not to move; but a dog holding her leg at a weird angle might not be so compliant.

 

[Richardhb.]

It may be partly because your might need to be sedated to make sure she is still. Your dentist can tell you not to move; but a dog holding her leg at a weird angle might not be so compliant.

Yes my friend, I am well aware of the situation. However, I do feel the that Vets take advantage when pets owners are involved. Apparently there is an investigation in progress regarding Vet costs, and prescription charges . It cannot come to soon in my humble opinion?

 

[JudyN]

That sounds par for the course for X rays, sadly - or even relatively cheap. I do wonder if vets - or the businesses that administer their practices for them - have higher prices as they know most (?) dogs are insured. It would be interesting to look into their finances - it's heartbreaking when pet owners simply can't afford the treatment their pets need.

I hope the X rays reveal something easily fixable - do please let us know how it goes.

 

[Feverfew]

I think an investigation into veterinary charges is well overdue, and I also think that bringing in insurance has had a big effect in sending prices through the roof.

How things have changed since I was a vet nurse in the 1970s. We very rarely used anaesthesia for x raying animals - sedation occasionally, but it was generally managed between two kennel maids (we weren't even called nurses in those days - just 'girls'.)

Many of the operations common these days were just not performed - I can't remember ever repairing a cruciate, that would have been kennel rest, same as a fractured pelvis or spine. In those days (at the PDSA), owners were asked to sign 'a declaration of conscience' to say they could not afford private veterinary fees, in line with its founder's beliefs. The Royal College put a stop to that, however! Just imagine having that system these days.

Although surgery was a bit rough and ready in some cases, and we certainly could not do the stuff that Supervet does, the aftercare was extraordinary by today's standards. 54 walk-in kennels under heatlamps, with knee-deep bedding (woodwool) and dogs exercised three times a day, and two dressings rounds a day. The typical length of stay was 3-5 days, for a hystetectomy or mammectomy, but several weeks for fractures to allow time for physiotherapy. We even had visiting hours for owners! All the food was cooked from scratch when I joined, although we later moved to tinned food for convenience. There was even an isolation ward for animals we suspected might also be carrying respiratory infection.

I know there have been many surgical advances since then, and no doubt dogs have a longer life as a result, but I sometimes wonder if it really is better than 'the good old days'.

 

[Hemlock]

Certainly sounds a great level of care. And I bet there was always someone there at night, which you don't get now even when paying for "overnight observation" as I found with one of mine, who would have been much safer at home with me to watch over him. Ah, hindsight!

 

[Feverfew]

Certainly sounds a great level of care. And I bet there was always someone there at night, which you don't get now even when paying for "overnight observation" as I found with one of mine, who would have been much safer at home with me to watch over him. Ah, hindsight!

Yes, several shifts of nightwatchmen, one of them, a Polish chap, had been in Auschwitz. The building was never empty - 3 staff present at weekends, plus a vet on call and volunteers (which is how I started).

What was also different was the amount of responsibility kennel maids had, not just being in sole charge of the wards, but also running clinics and assisting in theatre. No exams, just hands-on learning. We'd do all the anaesthesia (including calculating dosage) and be left to close surgical wounds or perform minor ops such as teeth cleaning and extraction and cat castration. Two experienced girls always did the dressing rounds and physio together, and only consulted a vet if something wasn't going as it should. Incredible to think of it now, as I don't think modern, trained vet nurses have that degree of autonomy.

Happy days.

 

[HooBear]

Mentioning Lebrela injections. My old cocker had these once a month around £50 a time - but at 14 as he was then -we felt it was worth a try and did it help with ease of movement. My vet did explain that it helped some dogs more than others and I must admit for about 7 or 8 months it was wonderful, then sadly other age related illnesses came along.
Worth have a google about