Brothers being aggressive to other dogs

[Sarahclare4]

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Hi

I have two 4 year old male Springer Spaniels, they are littermates. We have had them both from 12 weeks and we have had a battles with them over the 4 years and wish we had trained them more thoroughly from the beginning. They are very good, we have an 15 month old son which they are both great with, in the house they are really good and know their boundarys. The two big issues we have with them is when we take them out, they really pull on the lead which we can manage with a halty lead and the other problem which is a big concern for us is that they hate other dogs, if they see another dog they bark and try and pull to get to them. They would literally jump out of the car if they could to get to another dog. They dont bite them they just bark but it sounds quite nasty. It is obviously quite shocking for the owner and the other dog.

We always walk them on a lead and we dont let them get too close to other dogs but on the very rare occasion they get out by accident it is a bit of a worry, even if we shout them they just ignore us like they are focused on getting to the other dogs.

If we walk them seperately they are much better they dont seem too bothered about other dogs unless the other dogs are off a lead and come right up to them. When we take them out together they get the pack mentality.

We have tried training classes and also spoke to a guy at the kennels we take them, they all say that with littermates it is really hard to get them out of the pack mentality but I am hoping others dog owners on here have experienced this and can offer some advise.

We try and be as sensible as possible with them and luckily the off he lead confrontation has only happened once or twice and to understanding dog owners. Appreciate you are all probably thinking we should have sorted this when they were pups - we tried but from very little they didnt like other dogs and if we did it all again we would defo work harder with them but as we have had them for 4 years they have become part of the family and just want to enjoy our walks with them!!

Any advise is appreciated!

Thanks

Sarah

 

[lurcherman]

wow two springers you are brave. they can be so hyper cant they. there will be people on ere that can give good sound advise on retraining. find out which one is the boss and work one on one. best of luck.

 

[eingana]

Ooooh yes, two springers. You must have either a rod of steel or the patience of a saint.

It doesn't surprise me that these two are littermates to be honest. There's a very good reason why many dog trainers won't take littermate pairs into their classes, and it's because the dogs don't tend to use their humans as a reference point anything like as much as they use each other, so as a consequence they can be disruptive, hard to focus and slower in taking direction on new activities or instructions.

You know the psychiatric concept of a folie à deux? Two people who by themselves would normally get on with their lives and who then happen to meet each other and something in their make up makes them feel a bigger trust and dependency on each other than they have on anybody else, meaning that they feel higher highs when they're doing good things, but also will take bigger risks and egg each other on to lower lows and more disregard for rules than they would independently. This is sort of like what happens with a pair of dogs that have their emotional stability and reference points in each other rather than their human pack leader.

I agree with lurcherman- you need to work with them separately, doing really constructive stuff that will challenge them and make them think about what they're doing, not each other. Scenting, agility, obedience, anything that involves thinking really hard whilst with you and getting their mind in the moment and not winding each other up should help, but it will take lots of time and effort input from you and it will also involve you being aware that the other dog will need occupying at the same time, as otherwise you will have one challenged and one at home doing his nut in because he's alone and really not comfortable with that.

These sorts of issues are the main reasons why every behaviourist and trainer I've ever heard speaking on this topic would discourage people from getting littermate pairs, certainly same sex littermate pairs. The competition and pushing each other further on with all sorts of extreme behaviour are very predictable and so hard to break.

Good luck

 

[banana]

Welcome to Dog Forum! I am Anna!

I think you ought to seek out an actual behaviourist, I am sure he/she could help you!

 

[lurcherman]

banana you and your behaviourist and vets lol are they your bits on the side lol :huggles:

 

[whippetsrus]

To start with walk them individually if they are better behaved and work with them. Also second the behaviourist .

 

[Sarahclare4]

Thanks everyone, I have contacted a behaviourist. I wish the breeder had advised us about getting two from the same litter can cause problems. He actually told us it isn't much more work! :- )

 

[eingana]

That statement makes me wonder whether the breeder was in it for the right reasons. If you speak to anybody who works in rescue or training they will all know of pairs of dogs that have significant problems when it comes to training and discipline.

I hope you make inroads into the problems you're experiencing soon, and if that means that you walk on head collars then that's one thing, but getting to the root of the problem so you don't need to be 'managing' the situation constantly would be preferable, wouldn't it?

 

[banana]

banana you and your behaviourist and vets lol are they your bits on the side lol :huggles:

 

[Sarahclare4]

Yeah, I wish I'd done research before commiting to two dogs but as we have had them so long I want to do everything we can to make it a better time for them and us. Typically we took them out for a walk this morning and passed loads of other dogs and not once did they bark.....maybe it's the threat of extra training lol! On a serious note we are looking into 1 on 1 training and then work on them separately to get them walking and behaving better. Hopefully I can come on here and tell you how much they have improved!

 

[murphyrules]

I admire the fact you realise there is a problem and you are prepared to put the effort in to fixing it, lots of other people would ignore it or get rid of the dogs so lots of luck to you. hope you get the results you want :luck: