Confused on Raw?

[Sararottielover]

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So my Cody is currently on Harringtons and is doing good on it , harringtons is what the breeder put the pups on. Iv been doing research and read that Raw is the healthiest food to feed your dog. But im very confused on how to do this. Some sites say start with a DIY while others say start with complete until you feel confident to feed DIY and then others say that not all completes have everything your dog needs.

Then a few sites say that DIY is cheaper but iv not found that the case , i calculated how much it woukd be from places like the butchers dog, nutriment and paleo ridge and all come over £100 a month and thats not even including the offal or fruit and veg ect that just for the meat chunks or the pure mince ranges.

Were pro raw dog food which is complete came out a £70 for a month so i find the completes are cheaper. My boy is 63kg and i was going to start at 2.5% as thats what most sites say to start at. Hes a healthy ideal weight ( hes registered at 2 vets ones a normal vet the other is a holistc vet both said hes an ideal weight)

I just want to feed him the best i can give him. I was then advised by a friend why dont you feed kibble in the morning and a home cooked meal in the evening but im not sure on this.

I like the sound of raw but am just confused and dont know were to buy from and if i should start DIY or start with a Complete?

 

[JoanneF]

There are several raw feeders here, someone will be able to help you soon.

 

[JudyN]

The disadvantages I see in complete raw are that (a) they don't include whole bones, which are excellent for the teeth, and (b) if the balance isn't quite right for your dog, it's harder to adjust. On DIY raw, you can aim for the 'perfect' ratio of 80% muscle, 10% offal and 10% veg, but then also add in 'if poos are too firm up the offal, if too soft, decrease the offal' or whatever.

I've found completes to be more expensive than the supplier I use, which is this one: Raw Pet Food for Dogs & Cats | BARF Diet - Nurturing by Nature I spend something like £80-£90 for 40 days' food for my 34kg dog, though I could do it cheaper if I used other suppliers (e.g. Albion Meats). Although we all want the best diet for our dogs, when you have a very large dog you do have to consider cost - it would be easy to spend more on your dog's food than you do on your own!

An excellent guide to raw feeding is the one from this site, which you can download for free: Raw feeding advice - But I'm happy to give you a quick run-down of the DIY basics if it will help

 

[Sararottielover]

The disadvantages I see in complete raw are that (a) they don't include whole bones, which are excellent for the teeth, and (b) if the balance isn't quite right for your dog, it's harder to adjust. On DIY raw, you can aim for the 'perfect' ratio of 80% muscle, 10% offal and 10% veg, but then also add in 'if poos are too firm up the offal, if too soft, decrease the offal' or whatever.

I've found completes to be more expensive than the supplier I use, which is this one: Raw Pet Food for Dogs & Cats | BARF Diet - Nurturing by Nature I spend something like £80-£90 for 40 days' food for my 34kg dog, though I could do it cheaper if I used other suppliers (e.g. Albion Meats). Although we all want the best diet for our dogs, when you have a very large dog you do have to consider cost - it would be easy to spend more on your dog's food than you do on your own!

An excellent guide to raw feeding is the one from this site, which you can download for free: Raw feeding advice - But I'm happy to give you a quick run-down of the DIY basics if it will help

Thanks. I download and read the link and if i have any questions I'll let you know.

I find it hard to find somewere because he weighs so much at 63kg it can get expensive quickly.

 

[Sararottielover]

Not read it all yet but the few i did read had a lot of good info. I wanted to ask are honeys expensive? I like how if i tell them about my dog they will create the perfect DIY pack for me. But is it expensive?

 

[Sararottielover]

So its 80% meat, 10% bone , 10% veg. How much offal do you start with?

With the bone do you feed 10% in everymeal or do you feed one meaty bone meal a day?

Sor for example do i feed like lab ribs for breakfast ( that would be the bone meal) and then a meaty meal in the evening like 80%meat , 10% veg and a bit of offal?

Or does everymeal have to be 80\10\10 ?

 

[Finsky]

The disadvantages I see in complete raw are that (a) they don't include whole bones, which are excellent for the teeth, and (b) if the balance isn't quite right for your dog, it's harder to adjust. On DIY raw, you can aim for the 'perfect' ratio of 80% muscle, 10% offal and 10% veg, but then also add in 'if poos are too firm up the offal, if too soft, decrease the offal' or whatever.

I've found completes to be more expensive than the supplier I use, which is this one: Raw Pet Food for Dogs & Cats | BARF Diet - Nurturing by Nature I spend something like £80-£90 for 40 days' food for my 34kg dog, though I could do it cheaper if I used other suppliers (e.g. Albion Meats). Although we all want the best diet for our dogs, when you have a very large dog you do have to consider cost - it would be easy to spend more on your dog's food than you do on your own!

An excellent guide to raw feeding is the one from this site, which you can download for free: Raw feeding advice - But I'm happy to give you a quick run-down of the DIY basics if it will help

Thank you Judy! I didn't know about those suppliers and I'm always on a look out for some more options. My usual suppliers are somewhat limited with their range of goodies and having picky eaters who seem to favour their food with more bite to it rather than minces ….having more choices comes even more important.
I'm starting to wonder if I should just drop a whole body of a food on their table and let them get on with it, not that they do have dinner table, or maybe that is what is missing from their life and getting one would get them eat more eagerly

 

[JudyN]

When I started, I started with just bone-in chicken mince & veg, then gradually included 'solid bone' (chicken carcasse in my case) and offal. You need to go carefully with offal, particularly liver, and introduce it gradually.

The percentages don't have to apply to every meal, or even every day, or week. Though depending on your dog, a liver-heavy meal even when he's adjusted could lead to a very runny bum, so you might need to make that little and often. You can also mix bone & mince in a meal, or feed separately.

To be honest, I just tend to go by 'lots of mince, a bit of bone, a bit of offal' - my supplier doesn't even give the percentages of offal in their mince mixes so I couldn't be exact if I wanted to. I just aim for a good variety overall. For my dog, this is mince in the morning, then one chicken carcasse in the evening with a bit more mince, and some pureed veg. And also a quail egg most days (hen's eggs give him farts of pure sulphur), occasional tin or sardines... and our leftovers.

I'll try to do some costings later, though might not have the time today. Poke me if I haven't replied in a couple of days!

 

[Sararottielover]

Can someone check iv done the math right?

So 2.5% of bodyweight (hes 63kg) is 1,575g per day so split into 2 meals that would be 787g per meal.

So the 80% meat would 629g and 10% bone and veg would be 78g of each. Is this correct?

 

[Sararottielover]

Thank you Judy! I didn't know about those suppliers and I'm always on a look out for some more options. My usual suppliers are somewhat limited with their range of goodies and having picky eaters who seem to favour their food with more bite to it rather than minces ….having more choices comes even more important.
I'm starting to wonder if I should just drop a whole body of a food on their table and let them get on with it, not that they do have dinner table, or maybe that is what is missing from their life and getting one would get them eat more eagerly

You could look at utterly rawsome they do chunks instead of mince. I would go to them but there rather expensive to feed a large dog. For Cody it came to £127 per month. And that doesnt include his bones or veg.

 

[Buddy1]

The ratios we use (and just as a guide) are 80% meat 10% offal (organ meat) 10% bone. We feed veg occasionally, but that is just extra.
@excuseme often suggests a really good book on raw feeding by Honey’s. I am sure she will put up a link / title, as I don’t think you can download from the website anymore.

 

[JudyN]

@excuseme often suggests a really good book on raw feeding by Honey’s. I am sure she will put up a link / title, as I don’t think you can download from the website anymore.

I've put the link up above

Apologies - my 10% veg should have been 10% bone As Buddy1 says, the veg is just 'extra' with no fixed amount (some people don't feed it at all). @Sararottielover , your maths is correct - just substitute 'bone' for 'veg'.

 

[Sararottielover]

I thought the veg bit was wrong i thought 78g with both meals seems a lot.

So is 80% meat and 10% bone with every meal? Offal im only giving him small amounts.

Anyone know if natures menu freeflow minces are good?

 

[Finsky]

You could look at utterly rawsome they do chunks instead of mince. I would go to them but there rather expensive to feed a large dog. For Cody it came to £127 per month. And that doesnt include his bones or veg.

Cheers. Our girls are not expensive to feed as such...they don't tend to eat that much anyway, but it is waste that bothers me if they refuse to eat the stuff. At the moment I have half a freezer full of various raw food mixes in all forms that they won't even try. Provided that the meat 'on the bone' bits are not fused during freezing process, they are ideal to feed as I can take bits at the time out of the freezer. Some of the raw food is sold in far too big lumps for fussy eaters like mine...they might have some and then not touch it again for some time.
But I keep trying and invent it on front of them in different form in a chance that they will have it after all. Currently some of the nugget type things seem to go down in a cooked form...substitute 'meatballs' I'm not bothered if they are not having fully raw all the time as long as I get something else down into their tummies than duck/turkey/chicken wings/necks. Those they would eat for each and every meal but all that bone would mean that there would be coming 'chalk' out of the other end

 

[JudyN]

So is 80% meat and 10% bone with every meal?

It's just an overall ratio to aim for - he can have 'bony days' and 'meaty' days. If he has too much bone over a short time his poos are likely to get crumbly, which would suggest that he might be better off having a bit of bone each day rather than all in one go.

 

[JBP]

I can remember many years ago when I first started raw feeding, worried about how much and ratio's etc weighing everything, it does get easier I promise, go with your gut feeling and don't worry, you'll notice the difference and your companion will let you know, I think it's better to feed less than too much especially with large breeds, if they carry to much weight it can affect there skeletal development. Best of luck with it you won't regret it in the long run, a happy dog eating food it was meant to eat.

 

[excuseme]

I never make "Balanced" meals and never buy them either, I just feed a good assortment of various meat types, various offal types, (taking care with the liver) although liver is important, fat and gristle are also good and helps to balance the food and last but not least, some edible raw bones, (chicken carcass are good). Raw feeding will balance itself over a couple of weeks if a good variety is used.
I never make fruit and veg an important addition, but the girls always get our over ripe fruit, I sometimes blitz some mixed veg and I sometimes in the spring pick new nettle tops, goose grass/cleavers, dandelion roots and leaves, a little bit of Hog weed, chop them and blitz them and pour over their meals. The girls will always graze on wild grasses and herbs, (that is their choice). They also enjoy some of our donkeys poos (they are quiet selective) and search for rabbit poo too.

The little book that @JudyN suggested is; "Honeys Natural Feeding Handbook for Dogs"
This book is easy to read and understand and can be purchased on Amazon for as little as 1p, used but as new. I love it.
It is useful for both regular feeders of raw and especially helpful for newbees.
We have fed raw for 40years ish, started with still born calves that my husband would bring home from work.
I worked on a Quail farm, and brought home raw Quail necks every week, we also caught and fed to our border collie whole wild rabbits.
Feeding raw is not a new fad, but it is a lot easier to access these days.

.

 

[Sararottielover]

Thank you so much everyone for taking the time to help me. Iv ordered the book from amazon.

I got some natures menu beef chunks and one of there beef minces ( free flow) from a local dog shop that selled them and allowed them to defrost to see if he likes mince or not. They also had natural instinct.

He did not touch the natural instict just looked at it then sniffed it and walked away. I only gave a small amount in each bowl and gave him one bowl at a time. The natures menu he tried but spat out and made this funny face iv never seen him do that before. And the beef chunks he destroyed they were gone within minutes. I then tried him on some raw diced lamb i had in my fridge and he ate the whole thing. So just be sure i put some raw minced beef i had and he didn't eat it. So i think he prefers chunks over mince.

Being 63kg nearly every supplier i look at is over £100 or close to £100. Even the link you provided @JudyNof who you go to came to £108 for a month worth. So since its not a huge difference between them and utterly rawsome who do chunks instead of mince i think ill try utterly rawsome. I like that there offal is bagged seperate so i can adjust to Codys needs and they give you bones at no extra cost i can choose to have the chunks boneless or i can choose for them to come with bones like chicken wings , lamb ribs ect but the bone and boneless options are the same price.

Im going to start with one protein and introduce another after about 2 weeks providing hes ok with the first protein. I will make sure i follow the 80% meat, 10% bone with a little offal. Once he on a few different flavours i will the see which fruit and veg he likes and add a little with everymeal.

I wanted to ask is it ok to feed meaty bones a few times a week and then the rest of the time grind the bones myself so he still gets 10%?

 

[excuseme]

If your looking for just naked raw minces with no extras, the Bulmers and Landywood basic minces are quiet nice, I have used them both at different times for variety, I think they also do chunks too.

 

[JudyN]

I wanted to ask is it ok to feed meaty bones a few times a week and then the rest of the time grind the bones myself so he still gets 10%?

Yep, that'll be fine. It sounds like you're getting your head round it all very quickly!

A couple of things - some bones will be too small for your dog as they can be a choking risk if he tries to swallow them whole. You're best avoiding chicken wings, and also chicken necks. Also, I was advised to start off with bone-in mince so his stomach acids adapted to the bone before they had to cope with whole bones. Most people seem to launch into bones sraight away with no problems, though - see what Honey's book has to say on this.