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Docked or not docked?

Discussion in 'General Dog Forum' started by Jack-Russell-Lover, Oct 11, 2018.

  1. Jack-Russell-Lover

    Jack-Russell-Lover Well-Known Member Registered

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    So @excuseme and I thought it might be interesting to make this thread based on another discussion in a previous one about docked tails.
    We just wanted to know about people's opinions really, are you pro docking? Against docking? Neutral?
    I am completely pro docking, these days, let's face it most dogs are pets so docking their tails is rather unnecessary, unless of course for a medical reason. Or if they are working dogs then by all means dock their tails to reduce chances of injury.
    I don't know the history of it all but I assume when all dogs had a job, there were some breeds that needed their tails docked to reduce injury. Maybe when their tails were full they just ended up injured and humans thought of a way to prevent it. Who knows maybe they even had to dock them when they got injured, of course there weren't many/any tools/medications etc. So it's possible that if they were injured they struggled to recover and maybe even died from it! Hence humans came up with a solution to cut off their tails as puppies (bones are softer, smaller, easier to cut off?) That sounds horrible when I say cut off but that's exactly what it is and what they would have had to do themselves, depending on how many years back it started they probably didn't even have any vets?
    Any info on the history would be interesting if anyone knows..

    Tell us you thoughts :)
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2018
  2. Caro Perry

    Caro Perry Well-Known Member Registered

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    Against unless there is good reason and I'm glad it's now illegal in the UK.
     
  3. JudyN

    JudyN Well-Known Member Registered

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    I'm anti-docking, unless it's for medical reasons or it's better for a working dog. Though I question why we expect a dog to do a 'job' that requires it to have part of its body removed.

    We shouldn't dock dogs for 'fashion', and if we think an undocked dog looks odd, that's presumably just down to what we are used to - flared jeans and platform shoes look distinctly odd nowadays too! I used to think that undocked Yorkies looked odd, but now they look quite normal.

    Tails are important for dogs' body language, helping them communicate with each other. Not being able to do this could result in unnecessary scraps and other less than successful interactions.

    Back in the 70s, we had a Yorkie who had three litters. The vet came round and docked them when they were just a few (can't remember how many) days old. I was at school when this was done, but my mum told me that they just squeaked briefly and then were fine - maybe they don't feel it much at that age.

    @excuseme mentioned in the other thread that undocked boxers looked odd to her. I'm not at all a fan of dogs with shortened faces and to my mind, however odd an undocked boxer's rear end looks, I'm much more concerned about what we have done to the other end - i.e. its face - which is arguably much more 'wrong', and a case of genetic mutilation.
     
  4. Kara 1

    Kara 1 Active Member Registered

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    One of our jack Russell's came from rescue remedies 4yrs ago he already had a docked tail but a longish one ...Sid the other jack russell was bred as a working pup and had his tail Legally docked by a vet in Wales ...he was the last one born and was unsold his tail is very short ...we received all the legal documents.for his tail docking.he was going to be a vermin control dog but wouldn't hurt a fly (literally)
    My ex husband works spaniels and rescued a working dog with an undocked tail that was in an awful state due to being caught in undergrowth and he had to be docked as an adult due to severe infection....
     
  5. Whippylove

    Whippylove Well-Known Member Registered

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    Im against docking tails unless theres a medical reason for it.
     
    millymojo1 and leashedForLife like this.
  6. Rhythmpig

    Rhythmpig Active Member Registered

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    My thoughts are,leave well alone unless there's a medical reason for docking,if the tail is damaged it needs sorting out.
    I was brought up with working breeds (long dogs,lurchers and terriers)and from memory I can't remember any of the terriers having there tails docked. My grandads dogs were all intact and so we're my dad's. Having a tail never stopped them working successfully.
     
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  7. Jack-Russell-Lover

    Jack-Russell-Lover Well-Known Member Registered

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    I totally agree with you there @JudyN, there are much more wrong with the other end!
    I can't stand flat faces, I would never get one, they look awful, they sound awful, and I'd rather not encourage the 'trend' for it.
    It does my nut in that there are even dog breed 'trends'...a flat faced dog apparently looks cute (pffffft) so everyone wants one?
    A cockerpoo is 'non-shedding/low allergy' (although not the case, some/all do shed a little) so everyone wants one!
    People laugh when their flat faced dog snores, no it's not funny, it's snoring most likely because it can't get enough air!!
    They're not an item of clothing, it's a living, breathing (some easier than others!) animal. People should pick a breed that suits their lifestyle, not just pick a breed that everyone else (including celebs) have because they look cute/funny.
     
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  8. Mad Murphy

    Mad Murphy Well-Known Member Registered

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    I am against the cosmetic mutilation of any creature including human children.
    In NL last week an announcement was made that even dogs docked for so called medical reasons will be disqualified from shows.
     
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  9. Jack-Russell-Lover

    Jack-Russell-Lover Well-Known Member Registered

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    @Mad Murphy, what? That's ridiculous! I think the breed standard things are taken way too seriously.
     
  10. Mad Murphy

    Mad Murphy Well-Known Member Registered

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    Sadly its necessary. There are people and dishonest vets who will fake a medical reason to mutilate a dog the person can the continue to show their dog as it has a ' medical' exemption. The new rule will close the loophole on these cruel practices.
     
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  11. JudyN

    JudyN Well-Known Member Registered

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    If the dog is a 'show dog' and doesn't need to be docked for work, then a docked tail, for whatever reason, should be treated the same way as, say, an amputated leg. If a show dog of a breed that is not normally docked lost half its tail in an accident, we wouldn't expect its show life to continue. After all, tail carriage is likely to be part of the breed standard.

    Now, if it was a 'working dog' show, it's a different scenario. In lurcher shows in the UK, a lurcher could get extra points for a few scars :D There may be similar shows for other 'proper' working dogs, where breed standard isn't as important as 'fitness to work' or just 'a cracking dog'.
     
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  12. Jack-Russell-Lover

    Jack-Russell-Lover Well-Known Member Registered

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    @Mad Murphy that's so bad isn't it, faking a medical reason!
    Good point @JudyN I didn't think of that, and that's interesting about Lurchers!
     
  13. excuseme

    excuseme Well-Known Member Registered

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    Phew! what a busy day we have had, just made a cup of tea and sat down. It won't be long before the girls start telling me it's time for dinner!!

    What a lovely response @Jack-Russell-Lover and a fantastic first post.
    I have to say that I have no objection to the docking of tails, the puppies tails are snipped quickly by 5 days of age, with little or no fuss at all. Pop them back with mum and they continue suckling straight away.

    My first "working type" Cocker had a long dock, probably 2/3 of tail remaining and every shooting season had a nasty sore and frequently bloody end to her tail.
    I have mentioned in the other post about the very short docked tails that mostly the "Show Type" had. I do believe that a tail should be able to cover a dogs "private" parts when needed, whether a male dog or female. Tails still wag whether short or long, and as long as the tail is not too short, body language can still be seen.
    It is still a legal process for certain breeds of working dogs, but must be performed only, by a veterinary surgeon, where a legal document/license and micro chipping are part of.
     
  14. Jack-Russell-Lover

    Jack-Russell-Lover Well-Known Member Registered

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    Thank you @excuseme! :)
    In the case of that, yes, docking may be necessary. I think it was on 'Paul O'Grady's for the love of dogs' that i saw a Greyhound with 'happy tail'...his long tail would not stop wagging so he ended up with sores on it all the time and had to have it taken off.
    I just say if they're pets, leave their tails be! They're all perfect as they are! :)
     
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  15. JudyN

    JudyN Well-Known Member Registered

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    This raises the question, which I hope isn't too far off topic, of whether dogs should be bred to have 'uppy tails'. For OH, having an uppy tail would be a deal breaker when choosing a dog, as he doesn't want to be looking at its bum hole half the time, but does it also affect how other dogs respond to these dogs?
     
  16. excuseme

    excuseme Well-Known Member Registered

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    Oh Judy, that has made me chuckle, "bum hole" ha ha:oops::D
     
  17. Josie

    Josie Administrator Administrator Registered

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    And me! :D
     
  18. Jack-Russell-Lover

    Jack-Russell-Lover Well-Known Member Registered

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    Hahaha, @JudyN I agree, it does look a bit unsightly doesn't it! Especially with a short haired dog with a big butt hole, like most pugs I've seen!!
     
  19. excuseme

    excuseme Well-Known Member Registered

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    Which ever end of a Pug you look at, neither looks especially good!
    (sorry anyone who has a gorgeous family member pug):oops:
     
  20. Jack-Russell-Lover

    Jack-Russell-Lover Well-Known Member Registered

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    Hahahaha! Omg that made me chuckle @excuseme, that's so true!
     

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