Harleys Problem...

[I'mALurcherLover]

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well we have now had harley since jan, and first of all he was FINE. we took him to vets etc and he loved a cuddle and fuss. but now we cant even take him near other dogs without him trying to bite them. today we was out, and a LADY (we thought he was only scared of men) came up and did the motion to stroke him and he barked and i think he would of bit her :blink: now, i dont really know what to do? neither does mum? how do you deal with dogs like harley, any help would be welcome. :thumbsup:

 

[grotbag]

Hi, it sounds as though Harley has become TOP DOG and feels he should protect you from everyone.

What you need to do is dominate him so you become Top Dog(ALPHA female) then he will relax and enjoy life again.

If he is just aggressive you may need to have him castrated.

To dominate lay him on the floor and use your hand on his neck, like his mothers mouth. Don't let his head up until he lays completely still and relaxed.

We adopted a whippet 18 months ago who was always the boss and my husband and I both dominated her and she is really lovely to have around now and has really joined our other 3 lurchers in the pack.

We still have to put her down on the floor if she gets pushy but she is a lot happier now we take all the decisions.

Hope this helps, Grotbag.

 

[TTT]

Seek the help of an experienced trainer. Socialise your dog at a dog club and until you have this sorted, keep your dog on a lead and muzzled. :luck:

 

[chid21]

if you think the dog will bite someone PUT IT TO SLEEP ... what happens if the dog manages to escape and bites a child ...

 

[FeeFee]

You need experienced help from a good behaviourist or trainer, and one who uses proper up to date methods. I don't think anyone can give you proper advice in a case like this without seeing the dog and his behaviour first hand. Most dogs with aggression problems are actually fearful, not 'dominant' and it would be easy to make him worse by using the wrong techniques with him.

There is a list of APBC members by area here: http://www.apbc.org.uk/help/regions

I'm not sure where you are based, but it might also be worth contacting Jim Greenwood who specialises in sighthound behaviour, he's a lovely guy and worth at least having a chat to on the phone to see if he feels he can help you: http://jimgreenwood.co.uk/default.aspx

If this behaviour has started suddenly it would also be worth getting your vet to give him a good look over to make sure there is no medical problem that could be causing his behaviour.

Good luck, I hope you are able to get some help with him :luck:

 

[I'mALurcherLover]

You need experienced help from a good behaviourist or trainer, and one who uses proper up to date methods. I don't think anyone can give you proper advice in a case like this without seeing the dog and his behaviour first hand. Most dogs with aggression problems are actually fearful, not 'dominant' and it would be easy to make him worse by using the wrong techniques with him.
There is a list of APBC members by area here: http://www.apbc.org.uk/help/regions

I'm not sure where you are based, but it might also be worth contacting Jim Greenwood who specialises in sighthound behaviour, he's a lovely guy and worth at least having a chat to on the phone to see if he feels he can help you: http://jimgreenwood.co.uk/default.aspx

If this behaviour has started suddenly it would also be worth getting your vet to give him a good look over to make sure there is no medical problem that could be causing his behaviour.

Good luck, I hope you are able to get some help with him :luck:

thank you so much, thats really helpful :thumbsup: we have already thought about Jim but the other list will be VERY handy to , thanks again :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

and just to clarify everyone, that it defiantly is fear and not dominate aggression.

 

[rusty w 2]

we have the same problem with our smoke

i got in touch with a behavorist last week and had a good chat with him and he told me to go back to basics with him for 2 weeks then hes coming to have a look at him our smoke has separation anxiety

which is my fault as i have treated him as child...

we took our smoke to jim greenwoods hes good we did a couple of classes with him i think its better if you can do one to one with the trainer .. good luck ...

 

[I'mALurcherLover]

we have the same problem with our smoke i got in touch with a behavorist last week and had a good chat with him and he told me to go back to basics with him for 2 weeks then hes coming to have a look at him our smoke has separation anxiety

which is my fault as i have treated him as child...

we took our smoke to jim greenwoods hes good we did a couple of classes with him i think its better if you can do one to one with the trainer .. good luck ...

thank you we're booking a session for him soon :thumbsup:

 

[rusty w 2]

we have the same problem with our smoke i got in touch with a behavorist last week and had a good chat with him and he told me to go back to basics with him for 2 weeks then hes coming to have a look at him our smoke has separation anxiety

which is my fault as i have treated him as child...

we took our smoke to jim greenwoods hes good we did a couple of classes with him i think its better if you can do one to one with the trainer .. good luck ...

thank you we're booking a session for him soon :thumbsup:

let us now how you get on i think sometimes its the owner that needs the training lol...

 

[I'mALurcherLover]

we have the same problem with our smoke i got in touch with a behavorist last week and had a good chat with him and he told me to go back to basics with him for 2 weeks then hes coming to have a look at him our smoke has separation anxiety

which is my fault as i have treated him as child...

we took our smoke to jim greenwoods hes good we did a couple of classes with him i think its better if you can do one to one with the trainer .. good luck ...

thank you we're booking a session for him soon :thumbsup:

let us now how you get on i think sometimes its the owner that needs the training lol...

i will :thumbsup: haha well we shall see (w00t) xx

 

[I'mALurcherLover]

hi everyone,

we had a behaviourist today and she has explained how to diffuse the situation with harley. she also doesnt think he is too bad and is returning in a month to see him again. so far so good :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: (w00t) :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

 

[rusty w 2]

hi everyone,we had a behaviourist today and she has explained how to diffuse the situation with harley. she also doesnt think he is too bad and is returning in a month to see him again. so far so good :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: (w00t) :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

fingers crossed for ya im booking our smoke in for his visit soon ive also got to change his food.. you should see a change in him then in a couple of weeks good luck harley x x :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

 

[I'mALurcherLover]

hi everyone,we had a behaviourist today and she has explained how to diffuse the situation with harley. she also doesnt think he is too bad and is returning in a month to see him again. so far so good :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: (w00t) :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

fingers crossed for ya im booking our smoke in for his visit soon ive also got to change his food.. you should see a change in him then in a couple of weeks good luck harley x x :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

ah well good luck with smoke :thumbsup: fingers crossed harley will change (w00t) (w00t) good luck smoke xx :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

 

[Fabapocalypse]

Have you let Jenny at SLR know that you have been having problems with Harley?

 

[I'mALurcherLover]

Have you let Jenny at SLR know that you have been having problems with Harley?

yeah she knows. :thumbsup: :thumbsup: xx

 

[Esty]

We had a problem with fear aggression after one of our three was chased down by a couple of nasty GSDs last year. Until then he has been a lovely socialised boy who was fine with other dogs. After the incident with the GSDs he began barking at other GSDs, then labradors, then all big dogs and then all dogs. He started lunging at other dogs when they passed, especially if we were in narrow lanes. We had to keep him on the lead as he would actively go after bigger dogs to assert himself. It got to the point over Christmas where he was starting to bark at people without dogs so we got Jim Greenwood in and it made a massive difference, although he can still be funny if we take our bitch out at the same time - he seems to want to protect her even though she is top dog. All this is out of FEAR, not aggression/ dominance! With dedication, it can be managed. Jim gave us a number of things to work on with Grover and it felt good taking back control after worrying every time we went out.

As far as I know, the whole 'holding them down til they relax' thing has really fallen out of favour with good behaviourists and I know for a fact it has led to people being bitten when they haven't done it properly - to the point where dogs have been labelled 'aggressive' when really it was an inexperienced owner trying a half assed Casear Milan manouvre and the dog panicking and biting....I know one lovely dog at Dog's trust who took AGES to get a home as the DT people had to tell potential owners he had bitten - and it was as a result of a new owner having the dog for ONE day and trying an alpha roll on him..the dog did not have an aggressive bone in his body.

Also the person who said 'get it put down, it might bite a child', that, I'm afraid, is ridiculous. You obviously have him under control and are trying every avenue to help him - he's fear aggressive towards dogs and isn't going to go up and bite a child. That's like saying 'kill all men, they might be rapists.' What a load of rubbish. Our fear aggressive dog is actually the most placid and laid back out of all three dogs with children around.

Good luck with Harley :luck:

 

[cyfrin]

We had a problem with fear aggression after one of our three was chased down by a couple of nasty GSDs last year. Until then he has been a lovely socialised boy who was fine with other dogs. After the incident with the GSDs he began barking at other GSDs, then labradors, then all big dogs and then all dogs. He started lunging at other dogs when they passed, especially if we were in narrow lanes. We had to keep him on the lead as he would actively go after bigger dogs to assert himself. It got to the point over Christmas where he was starting to bark at people without dogs so we got Jim Greenwood in and it made a massive difference, although he can still be funny if we take our bitch out at the same time - he seems to want to protect her even though she is top dog. All this is out of FEAR, not aggression/ dominance! With dedication, it can be managed. Jim gave us a number of things to work on with Grover and it felt good taking back control after worrying every time we went out.
As far as I know, the whole 'holding them down til they relax' thing has really fallen out of favour with good behaviourists and I know for a fact it has led to people being bitten when they haven't done it properly - to the point where dogs have been labelled 'aggressive' when really it was an inexperienced owner trying a half assed Casear Milan manouvre and the dog panicking and biting....I know one lovely dog at Dog's trust who took AGES to get a home as the DT people had to tell potential owners he had bitten - and it was as a result of a new owner having the dog for ONE day and trying an alpha roll on him..the dog did not have an aggressive bone in his body.

Also the person who said 'get it put down, it might bite a child', that, I'm afraid, is ridiculous. You obviously have him under control and are trying every avenue to help him - he's fear aggressive towards dogs and isn't going to go up and bite a child. That's like saying 'kill all men, they might be rapists.' What a load of rubbish. Our fear aggressive dog is actually the most placid and laid back out of all three dogs with children around.

Good luck with Harley :luck:

what a positive and informative reply

​

 

[Esty]

We had a problem with fear aggression after one of our three was chased down by a couple of nasty GSDs last year. Until then he has been a lovely socialised boy who was fine with other dogs. After the incident with the GSDs he began barking at other GSDs, then labradors, then all big dogs and then all dogs. He started lunging at other dogs when they passed, especially if we were in narrow lanes. We had to keep him on the lead as he would actively go after bigger dogs to assert himself. It got to the point over Christmas where he was starting to bark at people without dogs so we got Jim Greenwood in and it made a massive difference, although he can still be funny if we take our bitch out at the same time - he seems to want to protect her even though she is top dog. All this is out of FEAR, not aggression/ dominance! With dedication, it can be managed. Jim gave us a number of things to work on with Grover and it felt good taking back control after worrying every time we went out.
As far as I know, the whole 'holding them down til they relax' thing has really fallen out of favour with good behaviourists and I know for a fact it has led to people being bitten when they haven't done it properly - to the point where dogs have been labelled 'aggressive' when really it was an inexperienced owner trying a half assed Casear Milan manouvre and the dog panicking and biting....I know one lovely dog at Dog's trust who took AGES to get a home as the DT people had to tell potential owners he had bitten - and it was as a result of a new owner having the dog for ONE day and trying an alpha roll on him..the dog did not have an aggressive bone in his body.

Also the person who said 'get it put down, it might bite a child', that, I'm afraid, is ridiculous. You obviously have him under control and are trying every avenue to help him - he's fear aggressive towards dogs and isn't going to go up and bite a child. That's like saying 'kill all men, they might be rapists.' What a load of rubbish. Our fear aggressive dog is actually the most placid and laid back out of all three dogs with children around.

Good luck with Harley :luck:

what a positive and informative reply

​

Thank you )

Also, Jim Greenwood told us that the act of going to stroke a dog you don't know above its head is taken as a threat by a fearful dog which is why Harley may have reacted to the lady who tried to stroke him and why most dogs will duck away if people approach them in that way. You never know what may have happened to Harley in the past and it often takes a while for these behaviours to emerge as the dog settles with you. If you stroke him under his chin and instruct others to do the same (after you've seen a behaviourist) that is much more comfortable for him and he will be less likely to react in a fearful way.

 

[Esty]

Link to Telegraph article on attempting dominance techniques with your dog....

Telegraph Article

 

[FeeFee]

Good article Esty :thumbsup:

I think if I could have one wish regarding dog training it would be that the word 'dominance' had never been applied to dogs' behaviour. It's almost never used correctly (ie to describe a relationship between two individual dogs, not a personality trait) and it's such a damaging concept that your life with your dog is some sort of battle or conflict for top position. It justifies terrible training techniques (pinning, rolling, scruffing, harsh lead corrections etc) which solve nothing and often make things worse, and people tying themselves in knots about allowing their dog on the sofa or through a doorway ahead of them instead of just getting on with enjoying their dog.

There's lots of stuff written about this, but this is a good summary: http://www.fun4fido.co.uk/blog/debunking-t...nance-myth.html