Help Needed

[FreddieDS]

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Hi,

I am really new to this forum and felt I should join because an incident happened that has really shook me up and I need advice from experienced dog owners who may or may not have adopted rescue dogs.

We adopted our Freddy at 1 year old and he is a cross between a Rottweiler and possibly Staffy/Basset Hound.

I think that Freddy didn't have the best start in life, we adopted him from a rescue centre in the South of England and we were told that he was owned by gypsies and may have been fed things like dead rabbits and such, we were also informed that he had an obsession with things that dangled and snatching treats. When we got him he had scabs on his ears which was strange, and his general attitude within the kennel looked like it was stressing him out. He also had an issue with walking where he would keep stopping and knew that this may involve lots of encouragement to walk and play. When we brought him home, he was very shy and timid and did not play at all, but we like a challenge.

Fast forward to today he has come out of his shell a great deal. He does not snatch treats or attack things that dangle (to the relief of my partner, lol) and he is absolutely fine with our guinea pigs (we had originally put a baby gate in the room where we kept them) we never leave them alone together or run around together or anything but he gives a little sniff and that's about it. He walks mostly fine but he still occasionally stops, but it is considerably less. He plays with toys now and the scabs on his ears cleared up. He doesn't 'seem' nervous but I don't know if he has obsessions with playing with his ball (needing us to throw it constantly), it is very hard to get his attention when outside of the house unless we have the ball or a treat and he seems to be bad with other dogs, despite walking just about OK with the dogs at the rescue shelter.

We want to socialise him with other dogs but unsure how, he keeps jumping up at them; wanting to play and he can get a little rough but he never seems to bite but he whines and barks at other dogs. So as you can imagine he is a bit of a nightmare on walks as whenever we pass a dog even if they are uninterested he always barks and tries to jump up.

This now leads onto the incident that has bothered me considerably.

There is a field near us, in which up until yesterday, we have been letting him off the lead (not every day) and when he has approached another dog they mostly just have a little bark and run around together, sometimes it was a struggle to get his attention but that was the most that ever happened.

Yesterday's incident we let him off the lead in the field and then we came across a very nasty dog owner. Now we know maybe we shouldn't let him off with his energy around other dogs, but this has made us very over cautious of ever letting him off again!! The owner had 2 Huskys on leads which was fine but then our dog did his usual hyper jumping up and this dog wasn't having any of it. The Husky grabbed our dog by the scruff of the neck and started throwing him about a bit. I completely flipped and was panicking and I couldn't take hearing my dog howling in pain. My husband tried to control the situation and tried grabbing our dog to safety but its like my dog still wanted to play, which I couldn't believe. He must have assumed that this was play fighting At this point the owner started hurling abuse at my husband and swearing at him, it was very disturbing I feel it has rocked my whole world I couldn't believe what was happening. The owner of the Husky then threatened to kick my dog, I mean my dog wasn't doing any fighting even to defend himself and I felt so upset I had to close my ears as I couldn't bear it and finally my husband managed to get hold of our dog and pull him way back, then the owner of the Huskys still thought it was ok to hurl more abuse at my husband and still continue swearing at him. Then he walked off and stopped with some other dog owners to have a chat and acted as if nothing happened, how could anyone be friends with this guy????

So we retreated home, examined our dog thoroughly and saw that he was fine which was a relief but I've been left distraught from the whole situation. I know it may sound silly but we only moved here 6 months ago and I am trying to like the area as we use to live near this area before but had a bad experience. I want to like the area but this has put me right off. I feel I need to like the area I live, I am quite an anxious person (my hubby is not), so I have been left questioning if I want to live here anymore and panicky.

Sorry if this is a really long post but I feel I wanted to give you a background on my dog and the situations to be able to judge his behavior I am not an expert and my hubby has owned dogs before but we feel Freddy is different to the dogs he had before and just mainly need advice and what you think of this incident and maybe suggestions of what we can do to help Freddy.

Obviously there is fault on our part for letting our dog loose and not reining him in in anticipation of other dogs but we've usually been very careful in the past and this other dog owner's attitude has completely questioned my owning a dog. Yes of course he has every right to react and insist that we remove our dog, which we were doing with the utmost urgency, but he just came across as rude and arrogant and a complete j3rk.

Any help would be greatly appreciated, hopefully you wont judge me too harshly and I do want whats best :- ) thank you.

 

[lurcherman]

wow i will try and be gentle on you lol i understand you wanting to let your dog off for a running exercise thats what i do too, but im prob not has harsh as this chap but i do get upset with a dog that jumps up at mine and me when my dog are on lead, the main thing here is your dog is not yet under control and can be dangerous runing into people and with a result in a fight with dogs or owner, saying all that you did try and sort the problem but in the eyes off the law it would say dog out of control, best think keep exercice up and keep working on bringing the dog on, new dogs do take time to feel loved and settled.. best of luck all the same.. kind regards.. lurcherman.

 

[banana]

Oh dear - what a distressing incident for you and I do hear how upsetting it was, but I think if you know your dog can be a bit hyper around other dogs, through no fault of his own, if you see dogs walking towards you on the lead, you must put your dog straight onto the lead.

I think the man was probably as stressed as you were and probably didn't mean he was going to kick your dog, we all say things in the heat of the moment, but its a stressful situation when there is potential for a proper dog fight because its so hard to stop when one dog is not restrained.

If you are having trouble with recall with Freddie, I would advise you buy a horse training lead rein (from Scats or like minded shops) and he will be able to run around and play but when you want to recall him you will be able to pull him back if he refuses.

Again, I am so sorry you had such a distressing walk, don't let it put you off, but get yourself better prepared, you have done a great job so far and I am also so glad - for your husband - that freddie no longer likes dangly things!! :lol:

((hugs))

 

[TTT]

You sound like the type of person that makes me avoid public parks with my dogs. Three of my most hated phrases from owners who allow their dogs to run loose and out of control:

1 'Don't worry - he's friendly'.

2 'Don't worry - he only wants to play'

3 'Don't worry - he's only a pup'

People with this type of attitude do not appreciate just how quickly a dog fight can break out and the devastating results that can occur. Take responsibility for your dog. It may help to go to a dog training club where you can teach your dog manners and recall under controlled circumstances - in the mean time consider keeping your dog on a lead - he will get into less trouble then.

 

[banana]

Don't worry - I like people like you - in parks or out! :lol:

All of us make mistakes, taking the initiative to seek help and advice is what sets people apart from others x

 

[gypsysmum]

I would seek out a dog trainer that is a member of the APDT (Association of Pet Dog Trainers - motto - Kind, Fair and Effective). They will give you advice over the phone and tell you whether they think you need one to one training or whether a class situation would be best suited to your needs. i would think that you would start with a one to one session or two at least. This would give you the confidence to know that you are handling your dog in the best possible way. We so often try one thing after another after another until the dog is totally confused.

In the meantime give him lots of brainwork to tire him out and walk the legs off him whenever you can.

Just to check on his diet. Some foods, especially those with lots of colouring in, can make dogs hyperactive. Try to feed the best quality food that you can afford. I particularly like Burns but there are others that are similar and will not affect behaviour. At the cheaper end of the market and not likely to cause problems is Chappie

Well done for rescuing this boy and good luck with his education. I had one like him once and he taught me so much

 

[hanneroon]

aaw bless you, you sound very sensitive, and i'm sure this was all a horrible shock....

The man acted so aggressively towards you all because he was scared. People swear and threaten, when theyre scared, and he was probably very worried that his dog was forced to put yours in its place.

You know your dog is lovely and only being friendly, but a dog that rushes and jumps on an another is behaving aggressively and rudely, and it must have been a shock for him to have his dogs approached like that. It sounds like, if your dog was truly unscathed, that he was getting a good telling off from that husky, who probably could have done a lot more damage. The fact your dog continued to 'play' shows he has little socialisation so far, and didn't understand his behaviour was just unacceptable. Puppies do this to adult dogs, and get quite rightly told off.

You know that you're dog is not nasty, so you should take confidence from this and work to help him have a happy and calm attitude, so he can be let off to play safely.

Perhaps in the future, you will be able to talk to the husky man and explain that you are trying to train yours, he's probably an ok guy really. I myself have shouted at someone who would not or could not control their dog, and i've been shouted at by people, when mine has barked at theirs. Its better if you can talk though, people do understand, and will be able to help you with the socialisation thing.

Good luck, don't get downhearted, i'm sure with a bit of work you'll be very proud of him,

 

[pippywhippet]

I agree with Gypsysmum about the food- Bakers in particular seems to have lots of colours and preservatives which can send dogs hyper.

I think whilst you are training him it is best to put him on a lead when others are around until you have checked with the other owners that they are happy for them to play- its a good way to explain at the same time that you are training him.

I would have been annoyed, too... my dogs are rarely on the lead unless they are injured and are recouperating and I would hate someones dog jumping all over them, whether it was being friendly or not :wacko:

 

[murphyrules]

My youngster behaves like yours does and he is NEVER going to be allowed off lead until I know I can recall him. I absolutely hate dogs running up to mine in that way so I will not allow mine to behave this way,

Also my older dog has been fed on Bakers for 6 years and is not hyper in any way, he is fit and healthy, lovely coat and nice firm poo. Different foods suit different dogs so its a trial and error process to find the one that suits. Its not even about cost to me as my bitch was fed Royal Canin, and my youngster is on Burns both which are more expensive than Bakers but suit my dogs.

 

[TanyaM]

As I have a whippet pup, she can get a long way away pretty quick when she sees a dog and wants to play. If someone has their dog on a lead then we whistle for her and she comes back before they meet. If a dog off the lead doesn't want to play then we whistle again for her to return. I know mine is a pup so wants to please at the moment, but she returns for a whistle because we have trained and trained her to know that whistle = sausage. We started by whistling and then giving her a piece of warm sausage (her favourite treat), kept doing that over and over for a few days, then did it in the garden, then in the garden when she was focused on something else, then on a long training lead in a field - all very gradually over many weeks. She is now pretty much guaranteed to come when we blow the whistle. There is a book called 'Total Recall' that we got from the library which really sets this stuff out. With a good recall then you have some control over her even when she is off the lead. That way this horrible experience should not happen again.

As for the shouting and threats, no wonder you are feeling sensitive and anxious. I would be too. Breathe, don't take it personally, this guy was just trying to protect his dogs (and not just from your dog, but from any hassle that you / the law might throw at his dogs). Put a plan in place so that this doesn't happen again - long lead, etc until you have a good recall or you know the place is empty, speaking with a good trainer and get working on this. Use this experience as a chance to identify an issue for your dog and work to improve it. Good luck and you are doing a good job on this,

Tanya

 

[lurcherman]

so much good advise so id takes a few bits from each of us and put into practice.. best of luck x

 

[eingana]

I'm with so many of the other people on here- although I understand that this is the sort of thing which has really shaken you, it was preventable and should have been prevented by not allowing your dog to approach other dogs unless you know that it is welcomed.

I'd have been pretty irate with you (although wouldn't have been swearing or issuing threats) if you'd allowed your dog to run up to mine too, because the reason that mine would have been on a lead is that she would be a risk to your dog. Most owners who put their dogs on a lead when approached by other dogs aren't doing so to deny their dog the opportunity to play, it's to prevent problems. If you allow your dog to approach others in the knowledge of that then you have to know that you are allowing your dog to walk into potential danger.

Teach Freddy recall, exercise that recall lots until you're sure that he's bombproof with it and then when you see another dog, get him back on a lead (for a treat) and then check with the other owner before allowing him to introduce himself and have a play. That way round you'll prevent others shouting at you and Freddy, and you'll only expose Freddy to other dogs that aren't likely to attempt to rip his throat out.

What you need to understand is that if the husky had done Freddy some serious damage that entailed a visit to an out of hours vet, then you would be responsible for the vet bill, not the owner of the husky. He had done his bit of keeping his dog under his control by keeping the dog on a lead and YOU were the one with a dog that was legally out of control.

Yes, Freddy needs socialising, but no, he shouldn't be allowed to approach other animals regardless of whether you know for sure that the other animal is safe to be approached, and sadly Freddy is the one who is likely to bear the scars if you persist in allowing him to approach dogs willy nilly.

If we were to encounter you and Freddy on a walk I would have shouted whilst Freddy was 100 yards away to ask you to recall Freddy. The words I use are 'I will not be responsible for the vet bills if you allow your dog to approach mine' and most people say 'oh, don't worry, she's friendly', to which the answer is 'I wasn't worried about mine'.

Molly has perfect recall, she is bombproof around humans and rears kittens, but she's a big dog and she wasn't socialised with other dogs before we got her. She's a lot better than she used to be with other dogs, but when another dog is heading in at full pelt she goes on to full alert protecting me and warns other dogs off teeth first. For that reason we are careful where we exercise her and only let her off lead when we're sure that she has the space to run after her frisbee without encountering other dogs. If another dog comes into her perimeter we put her back on the lead or ask her to lie down at our feet until the other dog has passed.

It is up to you to make sure that your dog approaches other dogs safely, and in some instances that will involve not approaching another dog at all.

 

[Oreo]

I'm with so many of the other people on here- although I understand that this is the sort of thing which has really shaken you, it was preventable and should have been prevented by not allowing your dog to approach other dogs unless you know that it is welcomed.

I'd have been pretty irate with you (although wouldn't have been swearing or issuing threats) if you'd allowed your dog to run up to mine too, because the reason that mine would have been on a lead is that she would be a risk to your dog. Most owners who put their dogs on a lead when approached by other dogs aren't doing so to deny their dog the opportunity to play, it's to prevent problems. If you allow your dog to approach others in the knowledge of that then you have to know that you are allowing your dog to walk into potential danger.

Teach Freddy recall, exercise that recall lots until you're sure that he's bombproof with it and then when you see another dog, get him back on a lead (for a treat) and then check with the other owner before allowing him to introduce himself and have a play. That way round you'll prevent others shouting at you and Freddy, and you'll only expose Freddy to other dogs that aren't likely to attempt to rip his throat out.

What you need to understand is that if the husky had done Freddy some serious damage that entailed a visit to an out of hours vet, then you would be responsible for the vet bill, not the owner of the husky. He had done his bit of keeping his dog under his control by keeping the dog on a lead and YOU were the one with a dog that was legally out of control.

Yes, Freddy needs socialising, but no, he shouldn't be allowed to approach other animals regardless of whether you know for sure that the other animal is safe to be approached, and sadly Freddy is the one who is likely to bear the scars if you persist in allowing him to approach dogs willy nilly.

If we were to encounter you and Freddy on a walk I would have shouted whilst Freddy was 100 yards away to ask you to recall Freddy. The words I use are 'I will not be responsible for the vet bills if you allow your dog to approach mine' and most people say 'oh, don't worry, she's friendly', to which the answer is 'I wasn't worried about mine'.

Molly has perfect recall, she is bombproof around humans and rears kittens, but she's a big dog and she wasn't socialised with other dogs before we got her. She's a lot better than she used to be with other dogs, but when another dog is heading in at full pelt she goes on to full alert protecting me and warns other dogs off teeth first. For that reason we are careful where we exercise her and only let her off lead when we're sure that she has the space to run after her frisbee without encountering other dogs. If another dog comes into her perimeter we put her back on the lead or ask her to lie down at our feet until the other dog has passed.

It is up to you to make sure that your dog approaches other dogs safely, and in some instances that will involve not approaching another dog at all.

What a brilliant post!! 100% agree.

Worded that better than I could have! Lol

I'd love to let Oreo off the lead more often but I don't trust other dog owners to keep there dog under control so I minimise the risk and keep Oreo on a lead a lot of the time.

 

[hanneroon]

i agree cadac21, was going to put, wait for eingana to reply!

I've always wondered what the most concise thing is to yell to folk, before their dog gets to mine. i'll give this a try. "call him back" does not work! i managed a "down!" once on a pointer, but that was a lucky guess, and a credit to the other owner. I felt like bowing to her!

 

[FreddieDS]

Thank you so much for all the advice, and I know we were in the wrong to have Freddie off the lead.

He has been on the lead since and we are making much progress with regards to how he reacts to other dogs, we've been trying to train him the best we can. We've implemented some techniques into our walks so he learns that he can't overreact to other dogs, fortunately its working a treat! Unfortunately when we reach those awkward situations he storms ahead. I guess that's what we're sacrificing for better behaviour.

Thank you for being kind towards my feelings I appreciate it, I'm still learning to be a good dog owner.

 

[eingana]

We're glad to be a good sounding board for you The really good thing here is that you understand that we're all learning all of the time and that the job is never done. We all continue to gain knowledge, training tips and skills from everyone around us all of the time and you choose neither the time nor the place that you learn the most valuable bits.

I'm really lucky that I've learned things through having Molly that have shown themselves to be really helpful with lots of other dogs and I've got so much more understanding from having to deal with her issues too.

It's great to hear that you are teaching Freddie lots of extra controls and that you have taken the opportunity to make it a rewarding experience for him so that he doesn't feel like he's being deprived whilst doing all of the learning. Most dogs are just so happy when it comes to learning things because when you teach them a new command they find a new way to please you and to connect with you by doing things right for you when you ask them.

Please give Freddie a big snuggle off me