Letting young collie "herd" a football

[Parly]

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Quick question and I apologise if it's a very obvious if not daft question but I'm asking all the same!

Have a young border collie puppy (4-months) and when I take her for a kick about with a football in the field, she's intensely focused and her obedience ten times the norm. I realise the ball is essentially a smaller, rounder and less fluffy version of a sheep and keeps her concentration but this morning when I was out, another dog-walker with a collie said it's not a good idea to let her herd the football.

The only reason he gave when I asked why was that she'll take to herding other things and it could become a real problem but he didn't elaborate further. Actually he seemed to despair at the sight but I never trust anyone that can't or won't follow through a comment like that without being more specific.

It's the best way to get her totally focused, listening intently and showing fantastic obedience so I use it as a means of making her wait / watch me and move after it only my signal. Can do all sorts with her using it and she'll let me slowly sidestep and kick the football away from her each time until I've gone the width of the football pitch and will not move from that crouched position until I say.

I like that I've found a way to work with her and that it's something she really enjoys but now Mr Collie did a hit and run remark on me like that; it made me question if he is actually right.

*She's not aggressive with sheep and lambs by the way. When she's in the field, she does the sneaky collie stealth creep but comes back when called and doesn't give chase at all. Very wary of lambs and seems more concerned about them than the Mummy sheep hurtling towards her.

Anyone that knows about all things young border collies able to help and put me straight?

Forgot to add, the football went a long way towards teaching her to obey simple commands off the lead and stop mid-chase as well. She's now off it altogether in fields and quieter areas and will instantly the stop the second I whistle or shout stop.

Do you know what - I'm convincing myself now there's nothing with letting her use the ball!

 

[eingana]

I'll give you a really big reason not to base her training around footballs- other footballs!

If you base her training around footballs you're doing two things- you're teaching her that herding is OK, which in any situation other than a farm it isn't, and you're also giving a dog that is inclined to OCD a thing to fixate upon.

Walk in a park with a BC that is football fixated and where there are also half a dozen children kicking a ball around- what happens? Monster madness BC on the end of a string trying to get to the ball, or a BC running at the children and trying to take charge of 'her' ball and terrified children. Cue squealing children, blaming parents and potentially a visit from a dog warden.

By all means use a toy for her training, but make it something that you won't find in every park most days please, and make it something that she retrieves rather than herds. Her nature is to herd but the moment that you reinforce that she will become fixated on that and she will herd everything from children to pot plants. I used to walk a BC in a group and one day when I fell over I sent her off to find me someone (she's a horribly clever girl) and she herded me a very nice man and his black lab to help me back to the car. You can send her off to collect sticks for all of the dogs and she will herd them too. In fact, anything herd-worthy and she's a happy dog.

Oh, and BTW- a farmer seeing her doing the BC creep towards his sheep won't care about whether she's going to be aggressive to them at all. They have the right to shoot dogs on sight around their sheep and rather a lot of them are prepared to do it. Please be extremely careful with allowing her anywhere near them.

 

[gypsysmum]

It sounds to me as though you have good control of her herding behaviour. If you can stop her and send her and bring her back then she is not obsessed by the ball to the exclusion of you.

The training of collies has changed in recent years. We always used to say that they were best kept really, really busy. The thinking now is that they need to be taught to "switch off". I think you have good control of her and am jealous of your control around sheep!

I would focus on teaching her to settle in all sorts of different places. Firstly at home she could be taught to settle on a blanket with regular rewards for staying on it (not a stay where she is not allowed to move - just a settle where she is calm and in one place).

Once she understands the word you use for settle then extend to all sorts of different places. Keep it really short and easy at first. Never "test" how long she can stay just gradually increase the time spent in the settle.

An excellent book is called "Understanding the Border Collie" by Carol Price. Try to get the revised version as she has updated it.