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Littermate Syndrome

Discussion in 'Puppy Forum' started by Violet Turner, Mar 19, 2018.

  1. Violet Turner

    Violet Turner Well-Known Member Registered

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    I was wondering what littermate syndrome is and if Doris has it from Aggression When Picked Up thread?.
    Any comments welcome :)
     
  2. JoanneF

    JoanneF Well-Known Member Registered

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    No. I replied in more detail on the other thread.
     
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  3. Violet Turner

    Violet Turner Well-Known Member Registered

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    Okay thanks. Do you know what it is? that's what i want to know...
     
  4. JoanneF

    JoanneF Well-Known Member Registered

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    Yes, I said on your other thread.
     
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  5. Violet Turner

    Violet Turner Well-Known Member Registered

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    Got it. Thanks
     
  6. leashedForLife

    leashedForLife Well-Known Member Registered

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    .

    Puppies need not be littermates to become overattached - it occurs when 2 pups are bought into the house in quick succession, & some ppl will suggest that "getting 2" guarantees each pup "has company".
    Yes, they do - & as the other pup already speaks Dog, why should either of them put much effort into understanding these bipedal strangers, who don't? Why hang out with the weirdos when U have a conspecific housemate, who has the same or at least largely similar interests, ideas of fun, likes & dislikes?

    I've had clients buy "hers 'n his" puppies of different breeds, & the pups were virtually inseparable & sometimes only half-a$$ed housetrained at 6-MO. :eek: Either pup would freak out if their buddy was taken for a walk & they didn't go along, even if they had their OWN outing. // It's a big hassle, trying to remedy it w/o rehoming one or the other.

    Same-home siblings take a tremendous amount of TIME, too; just for starters, every single training session must be repeated at each stage 3 times: once with each pup solo, & then again with the 2 together, which may mean 2 handlers, one for each pup.
    Scheduling their training & keeping up with it, given that virtually every adult works FT, is just one more task for overscheduled current-day adults, particularly when it comes to the very-short timeframe for socialization & habituation: between 8-WO & 12-WO is the primary period. 3-MO to 6-MO is secondary, where twice as much work delivers half as much in results, & anything from 6-MO on, is considered rehabilitative.

    the recommended minimum separation between 1 puppy & the next is literally one year - 12 full months, so that puppy #1 is at least 14-MO when pup #2 arrives. And at that, the 1st dog must be progressing nicely & have no behavioral issues that cause conflict with their family / owner, nor cause conflict with the neighbors, the community, or with other dogs.
    If dog #1 has problems, THOSE problems must be dealt with B4 a new pup is taken on, as pups are black-holes for time & will suck up anything that isn't work, the sleep of exhaustion, or necessary maintenance - like meals, a shower, a coffee with friends, or date-night with one's spouse.
    If U have children under 12-YO, time is even tighter, as the kids need theirs, too. :( There's a limit to how far U can stretch a 16-hr day, not counting commute. With the best of intentions, time is not elastic.

    - terry

    .
     
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  7. Violet Turner

    Violet Turner Well-Known Member Registered

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    I'm looking at fostering another dog should i wait a while?
     
  8. JoanneF

    JoanneF Well-Known Member Registered

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  9. JoanneF

    JoanneF Well-Known Member Registered

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    Yes. You don't seem to be coping with the dogs you have so adding more is a bad idea.
     
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  10. Violet Turner

    Violet Turner Well-Known Member Registered

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    Okay, when Doris gets older could this work?
     
  11. leashedForLife

    leashedForLife Well-Known Member Registered

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    it's far too early to ask - Who knows?
    She might be shy of other dogs, or reactive, or _______ .

    - terry

    .
     
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  12. Violet Turner

    Violet Turner Well-Known Member Registered

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    What do you mean Terry? I'm a little lost...
     
  13. Mayblossom

    Mayblossom Active Member Registered

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    I’d definitely wait Violet before you add another dog into the household, Doris needs to be sorted out first so give your attention to her first and foremost :) you need to focus on what’s causing her aggression ( although it seems to be her dislike of being handled if she’s fine in her training etc ) something or someone must have caused it so go with all the advice you’ve been given on here and hopefully she’ll turn into a lovely friendly little pup that everyone can love and enjoy :rolleyes:
     
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  14. JoanneF

    JoanneF Well-Known Member Registered

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    You have also been advised to wait a year. You would be strongly recommended to get your current puppy successfully through her adolescence and become a balanced adult before even thinking of adding another dog.
     
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  15. FrankieDoodle

    FrankieDoodle Active Member Registered

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    My God could you imagine having two puppies at the same time:eek: I'd be booking myself in voluntarily after the breakdown that I'd have!

    Definitely would be too much stress.
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2018
  16. leashedForLife

    leashedForLife Well-Known Member Registered

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    I mean she's now 10-WO. :eek:
    As i said B4, the *minimum* spacing recommended between pups is 12-mos, during which time Pup #1 is an 'only child' - so that s/he is at least 14-MO before another puppy enters the household, to suck-up every single second of time that's not committed to one's livelihood, eating, sleeping, bathing, & other necessities of earning a living or self-care.

    She's 2-weeks away from even having sphincter muscles that work, on her bladder & bowel.

    She's 2-weeks away from the END of her primary socialization period - the window of time when it's easiest to teach her to trust, to meet friendly non-threatening strangers with interest & curiosity rather than suspicion or timidity; when she hits 3-MO to 6-MO, it takes twice the effort to make one-half the gains.

    She needs - IMO & IME - Ur entire focus for at least the next 10-mos to become a well-socialized, bombproof, thoroughly-habituated, confident, responsive, polite k9 citizen. // Then - & only then - when she's a well-started young adult, who can go practically anywhere with U happily & confidently, & she's achieved at least the 3rd level on all her standard behaviors, can U decide if she's dog-social enuf to live with a dog other than her own mum.

    Levels training includes all the proofing needed for each step in training:
    Training Levels (originals) | Mind to Mind

    BTW, unless U intend to breed Olive again, U should be scheduling her spay - it's been 4.5-mos since her last heat, she'll enter pre-estrus soon, & her risk of excessive bleeding during spay-surgery only gets higher as she gets closer to estrous. She's due in a mere 6-weeks, so i'd get that booked ASAP [assuming no more litters are planned].

    Also, at 10-WO, Doris is a mere 3.5-mos away from her 1st estrus, & her own fertility. Spaying any female-dog before her 1st estrus is highly recommended, as it minimizes her risk of mammary cancer [4X as common in F dogs as breast cancer in women, & far-more fatal]; desex also eliminates the risk of pyometra for life, & sharply reduces her risk of UTIs.
    Spaying B4 1st-estrus eliminates 99.99% of the chances of mammary tumors; every estrus she goes thru increases her risk. In the USA, almost 7 dogs in every 10 diagnosed with mammary tumors are euthanized at the same vet-appt as their diagnosis, because by the time symptoms develop & she's taken to the vet, 68% of them already have cancer that's spread to their lungs - it's visible on x-rays, & they're not treatable. :(

    - terry

    .
     
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  17. Violet Turner

    Violet Turner Well-Known Member Registered

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    We are not sure weather we want to breed her again but I'm leaning towards yes but my OH isn't too sure, but we are thinking of breeding Doris if she overcomes her fear of hands and strangers.
     
  18. JudyN

    JudyN Well-Known Member Registered

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    You shouldn't breed from Olive if she produces pups with dodgy temperaments - even if Doris's issues can be overcome, it would mean that future pups could be completely unsuitable for inexperienced owners or those with children. Only dogs with the best temperaments and whose puppies are likely also to have good temperaments should be bred from.
     
  19. Violet Turner

    Violet Turner Well-Known Member Registered

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    Okay thanks :)
     
  20. thedogsbeforetime

    thedogsbeforetime Active Member Registered

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    I thought Olive was a rescue? But you were debating on breeding her? Again? I don't know....things aren't quite adding up here. And the fact you want to breed a "rescue" dog's puppy already was discussed. Honestly, I've been starting to not buy she was a rescue. You're too into the thought of breeding these dogs for me to think she's a rescue anymore.
     

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