Mandatory Early Age Desexing

[whipowill]

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Just in case you're in Queensland and haven't heard that the RSPCA and the AWL are current petitioning the Qld parliament for the introduction of early age desexing (8 weeks) for all dogs and cats breed in queensland unless being sold to an owner with an existing "breeding permit"

Get the truth about it and read how it could effect your dogs or the pups you sell.

http://www.caninesports.com/SpayNeuter.html

 

[aslan]

Thanks Kerry - interesting reading.

 

[Ridgesetter]

Interesting but have they consulted the AVA? I have requested my vets to do early age desexing for my last 2 litters now and they refuse. After checking around, I've found it difficult to find vets that will do early age desexing.

Cheers

 

[shenace]

Very interesting link, thanks for that.

I struggle to understand why you would want to put an 8wk old puppy under general anaesthetic to be speyed or neutered. Their wee bodies have to cope with vaccinaions & mirochipping, they have to deal with going to their new homes, I just don't see the necessity to have a major operation like speying be preformed so early :b

Having said that - I am very lucky that all my pet people fulfill their contracts & have their bitches speyed around 8mths of age. With only breeding on average one litter a year I guess the hit rate of people who will do as they agree does stay high. :thumbsup:

 

[Avalonia]

Greetings from Canada.

I am appalled at the stupidity of this move. I am sure it is being done to reduce the number of unwanted puppies, but dear heavens this is not the way to proceed!

We used to advise that dogs that we placed that were to be spayed or neutered have this surgery done any time after 6 months of age. But we no longer believe that early neutering is best for the dog for compelling medical reasons. We are members of the Ottawa Kennel Club here in Canada and recently the Club newsletter circulated a summary of a long-term veterinarian study of neutered dogs.

The study found that early neutering of physically immature dogs left dogs significantly more susceptible to cancer later in life than dogs that were neutered after they had reached full maturity. Full maturity was established, as the basis of the study, to be dogs less than 2 years of age. It also concluded that dogs neutered early never fully physically matured, so that dog puppies looked notably less physically mature than their litter siblings who were not neutered, a reflection of the fact that dogs, like humans, need the hormones that make them males or females to reach their full maturity after puberty. Dogs neutered at 6 months of age are the equivalent of four or five year old children, they are not even close to being fully mature, the hormones that allow a dog to become a doggie dog, and a girl dog a girlie dog, have not kicked in. The result is early neutered males will always look immature and girlie (something we have observed at first hand when dogs we bred and sold that were neutered early come back for a visit) and the same applies to the females.

The analysis of the cancer implications for dogs suggests that the failure to allow dogs to reach genuine physical maturity before they are spayed or neutered, and thus have the hormones kick in that turn dogs into mature animals, is what induces the significantly higher risk of cancer in older dogs.

As a result of this study we now urge puppy purchasers to postpone spaying and neutering until it is necessary to do so. For males, in many cases with whippets, this is in fact really NEVER necessary as this is not an aggressive breed. And for females, our line of whippet girls rarely has a first heat or season until they are about 18 months old. Delaying spaying till close to that deadline – or at least till females are over a year of age, is now our recommended course of action.

Finally, it is important for new whippet owners to know that whippets are very sensitive to anesthetics because they have a low body fat, and can in fact die while under. Many years ago now we had a young absolutely healthy male whom we placed with two medical doctors die while it was being neutered by a vet who did not pay attention to the fact this breed requires a very light hand in the administration of anesthetics. Consequently, it is important therefore that any medical work on a whippet be carried out by a vet familiar with the problems of sighthounds in this respect, and preferably, by a vet with a number of sighthounds in his or her practice. Fortunately, the development of more modern anesthetics in recent years – especially isofluorine – has greatly reduced the risk for low body-fat dogs like whippets, greyhounds, salukis. But this is always a caution worth considering before any kind of surgery.

Lanny Morry

 

[Claire]

Their little bodies have not matured so there for all structures are much smaller. would this lead to errors? The possiblity of "tying off" other important structures such as the ureter along with the uterine horn ? Has the cervix developed enough to be easily defined ? If ovaries are not easily defined does that mean the inceased risk of a "stump pyometra" in a bitch, or even ovarian tissue left behind and requires another operation ? Little boys if they happen to have an undesended testile. Now that would be like looking for a needle in a hystack, and it can be difficult enough in more mature boys.

I am no expert, just asking questions that cause me concern :wacko:

I really dont know if this is the right way or not. :blink:

 

[Seraphina]

There is something similar proposed for Victoria. It makes me sick. Unfortunately vets like to do early spay/castration, it is considerably easier and quicker for them, and they were taught at vet school it is socially desirable to reduce the number of entire animals. Unfortunately having no unplanned litter will also be very good news for puppy farms, which will continue to churn out as many puppies as the pet shop can sell, so there is not going to be less dogs in the pounds.

Anyway, I am so glad that people are finally starting to realise that early spay/castration can be detrimental to the health of animal.

I will be asking my puppy buyers to join the VCA so they do not have to spay/castrate their dog early. Unfortunately that will mean that I will not be able to sell my pups on the limited register as I would normally do. :wacko:

 

[Seraphina]

Interesting but have they consulted the AVA?  I have requested my vets to do early age desexing for my last 2 litters now and they refuse.  After checking around, I've found it difficult to find vets that will do early age desexing.
Cheers

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Couple of years ago, when i had my last litter, my puppy buyers were telling me that their vets wanted to do their pups when they brought them over for their booster at 12 weeks. Maybe things have changed?

 

[whipowill]

Interesting but have they consulted the AVA?  I have requested my vets to do early age desexing for my last 2 litters now and they refuse.  After checking around, I've found it difficult to find vets that will do early age desexing.
Cheers

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

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Yesterday I checked with my vet and there is no way he would consider desexing at 8 weeks and neither would I, so it just confirmed one of the reasons I've used him for the last 10 years.

The current, and previous presidents of the Australian Veterinary

Association are on record as saying mandatory spay/neuter of dogs and cats will not solve the problem of unwanted pets.

http://www.ava.com.au/news.php?action=show..._id=204&c=0

http://www.ava.com.au/news.php?c=0&act...amp;news_id=122

 

[Ridgesetter]

I'm not averse to early desexing and have attended lectures from overseas vets who have done thousands of early age desexing in dogs and cats. I've had one puppy desexed at 9 weeks of age because the owners lived in the outback and getting to a vet isn't an easy option so they wanted the pup done before she went.

I know of breeders here in Sydney (in other breeds) who have their puppies desexed at 8-9 weeks of age. Admittedly, it is a high profile large breed and I understand their reasoning for early desexing. One plus they say is that they only get serious enquiries and they can rest assured that none of their dogs will go to backyard breeders.

Many years ago, I worked at RSPCA in Sydney and when you see the amount of dogs come through that they do, I can understand that they see early desexing as the path to cure all problems. When there, I saw an 8 weeks pregnant bitch undergoing desexing (and euthanasia of the pups) because the owner hadn't realised that the bitch was pregnant early on and then stuffed around too long. :rant: I was horrified and believe me, no vet wants to have to do that sort of op. So it's understandable that they see desexing as the only option.

Desexing of cats is so successful that there are very few unwanted litters of kittens. In general, pounds and shelters have experienced a decrease in kittens. But I seriously doubt compulsary desexing will solve the problem of unwanted and dumped dogs.

Back to vets, my understanding is they need specific catheters to deal with the size variation in puppies and kittens so maybe that's a reason why so many refuse.

I wonder how long it will be and how effective our canine controlling bodies will be in fighting this. After all, their strategies and campaigns against tail docking wasn't that successful.

Cheers

 

[Seraphina]

Over the past few years there has been a large campaign in the USA to desex and desex young, no doubt with backing from some “animal lib” groups. The “research” results I have seen were so outrageous, that nobody should take them seriously. Basically according to these people dogs desexed young were no different from those left entire, as far as size, weight gain and temperament went. It was also claimed that spaying bitch before her 1st season is a 100% guarantee she would not get mammary cancer later in her life.

The fact is that we do not completely understand how the different hormones in our bodies all interact together. But interact they do from the conception till the death they are responsible for body development of an individual, they affect his/hers temperament, metabolism and health. Removing ovaries and testicles affects hormonal balance, and to do it before the animal has matured frankly frightens me. Thankfully there are some brave vets around who are starting to respond.

I do also understand that the RSPCA and other shelters want to reduce the number of unwanted dogs, but I do not believe that nowadays there is a significant number of unplanned litters. Most dogs in suburbs are desexed. I tried to propose to the VCA and to the microchipping registry people to make a law that the original breeder or pet shop where dog was purchased would be permanently included on the microchip register. It would be then possible to establish where from the dogs arriving in pound originated. People, be it a registered breeder or a puppy farm, who would have a large proportion of their pups ending up dumped could be dealt with.

 

[jools]

I fully agree with Lida's proposal to microchip all pups AND keep the breeders details on file - it would help long term.

As someone heavily involved with rescue in the UK, I am horrified at the thought of neutering 8 week old babies. The vets I use by choice as I respect there opinion and level of care with the dogs, (mine or rescues, they do not differentiate,) would not neuter until at least after a bitches first season or until a male was mature. Reasons being, anasthetic is more dangerous on babies, the op is more difficult and fiddly, they believe that early neutering does affect a dogs maturity and in bitches there is some evidence of later incontinence.

All our rescue dogs are neutered, but at the right age.

 

[Seraphina]

What puzzles me is that many vets will refuse to remove dew claws, support ban on tail docking but would perform major and very intrusive surgery on a baby puppy bitch. The possible consequnces are more than incontinence acording to this article

earlyspay/neuter dangers

 

[JAX]

What puzzles me is that many vets will refuse to remove dew claws, support ban on tail docking but would perform major and very intrusive surgery on a baby puppy bitch.  The possible consequnces are more than incontinence acording to this article
earlyspay/neuter dangers

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Dont want to sound too cynical ,but theres alot more money in desexing than dew claws :rant:

 

[dessie]

Many years ago, I worked at RSPCA in Sydney and when you see the amount of dogs come through that they do, I can understand that they see early desexing as the path to cure all problems.  When there, I saw an 8 weeks pregnant bitch undergoing desexing (and euthanasia of the pups) because the owner hadn't realised that the bitch was pregnant early on and then stuffed around too long.    :rant:     I was horrified and believe me, no vet wants to have to do that sort of op.  So it's understandable that they see desexing as the only option. 

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Well I'm sorry but I find that DISGUSTING, even allowing for stupid owners, that a supposed caring organisation should even contemplate carrying out an operation like that. Obviously the RSPCA are no better in Australia than they are here in England. That is criminal and I don't care what your laws say.

 

[JAX]

I reread it several times as I was sure id read it wrong :rant: I find it very distressing to MURDER Innocent babies and poor mum too :rant:

I cant believe that sort f this would happen here , My friend with a boarding kennels has alot of RSPCA dogs ( prisoners , sick old ladies dogs/cats etc) and I know of more than one litter that Shelly has whelped for the RSPCA and help rehome subsequent pups /kittens . as my Jasper was one of them :cheers:

 

[kris]

i read a letter in our local paper today from a young mum who saw a dog running wild on the motorway on bonfire night,obviously terrified of the fireworks.she managed to catch the dog and despite having a young baby and a toddler in her car she got the dog in and when she got home she rang the rspca.who did absolutely nothing.she said they didnt want to know.

cant believe someone would desex a bitch when shes 8 weeks pregnant.that is murder.

 

[Seraphina]

i read a letter in our local paper today from a young mum who saw a dog running wild on the motorway on bonfire night,obviously terrified of the fireworks.she managed to catch the dog and despite having a young baby and a toddler in her car she got the dog in and when she got home she rang the rspca.who did absolutely nothing.she said they didnt want to know. cant believe someone would desex a bitch when shes 8 weeks pregnant.that is murder.

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My vet would not desex a bitch when he performs ceasarian section. He says that it is too much a shock to the system, he wants the hormones to settle down first. I have to say when i saw this post about spaying 8 weeks pregnant bitch I was left speechless. But i have heard so many horror stories regarding RSPCA and other animal "welfare" organisations, nothing surpises me. Also my personal experience dealing with the RSPCA was just awful. When i reported people who went away for 10 days leaving their dog tied to a tree without any shelter, they came to investigate some 2 weeks after my phone call, the people of-course said they were never away, and the inspector called me back and abused me for making false reports. Well, I knew they were away because the dog was howling day and night and there was no car in their driveway as normally, and no light at night.

 

[Mychaka]

Heard about this push for Mandatory Desexing on Sunrise (breakfast TV show) the story on there was about this very thing but hoping to introduce it Australia wide, and also from private emails. It is not just for neutering 8 week old puppies but for all dogs and cats and only those who pay to be registered breeders can have entire animals.

When the docking ban was first pushed by the RSPCA with all their proper gander advertisements I (as many others) was very vocal about the ban. At the time I was the chief instructor for the obedience club here and coped a fair bit from the inspector who was also a member/trainer, he made my position and personal life so miserable that he was one of the main reasons I resigned even though I did not let my views on docking interfere with the position I held. Personally I do not support the RSPCA in any way by donations or my time since then (clipped fully matted coats off 30 long hair dogs and bathed many more rescued from a puppy farm for them for free as one example of my time). Mind you they sold most of those dogs on to new owners with some I know of that ended up still having to be put to sleep a couple of months later because of their health - never got their money back only the misery of losing a pet, the bitches that were already pregnant, even when rehomed had to go back to the shelter to have the litter, and then those puppies sold. Lot of horror stories from just that one batch of rescued dogs.

I now do my own little bit for the animal world privately.

The RSPCA shelter here have been de-sexing puppies at 8 weeks of age for a number of years already. They had contracted vets doing their veterinary work. Would be interesting to know the survival rate? I feel if the RSPCA run with this they will blind site the public as they did over tail docking.

I recently took two kittens from an abandoned litter to the shelter as I had been able to home 3 but the last two I had no takers, upon arrival this girl took one look and said they were feral because one hissed at her and would be put to sleep ... oh by the way you have to pay $20 towards looking after them because they had been in my care for 3 weeks ... what the?????? Picked up the kittens gave her a piece of my mind and took the kittens to a vet that had been advertising their re-homing project who gladly took them into their program.

Maybe the government should be looking at subsidising the cost of desexing dogs and cats as the cost seems to be the main reason why people do not neuter their pets. Make neutering costs reasonable and push for educating people on the benefits of neutering but don't make it another revenue raising project by introducing mandatory neutering and making registered breeders pay more for the privilege of breeding a litter.

And before I get blasted I know there are some very good people in the RSPCA who do a wonderful job but they seem to be getting far and few in between. The organisation has become too business orientated and forgotten why they were formed in the first place. Better get off my soap box now, blood pressure is racing.

Cristina

 

[kris]

well if theyre gonna blast you they can blast me too hun cos i agree with every word youve written. (w00t) well thought out and sensible post :thumbsup: