Moonwind Jocaster & Glenbervie Skytime

[Tesa]

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Does anyone know the breeding of the following two dogs:

Moonwind Jocaster

Glenbervie Skytime

I think that Glenbervie may be Steelbridge of Glenbervie x Sky Gypsy of Glenbervie (w 5/1/1972), but need to confirm it.

Haven't a clue with the other one though, other than it should be around the same era

Karen

 

[Tesa]

Does anyone know the breeding of the following two dogs:
Moonwind Jocaster

Glenbervie Skytime

I think that Glenbervie may be  Steelbridge of Glenbervie x Sky Gypsy of Glenbervie (w 5/1/1972), but need to confirm it. 

Haven't a clue with the other one though, other than it should be around the same era

Karen

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It may also be Skytime of Glenbervie (w 1970). Can anybody confirm which is correct.

Karen

 

[Avalonia]

Does anyone know the breeding of the following two dogs:
Moonwind Jocaster

Glenbervie Skytime

I think that Glenbervie may be  Steelbridge of Glenbervie x Sky Gypsy of Glenbervie (w 5/1/1972), but need to confirm it. 

Haven't a clue with the other one though, other than it should be around the same era

Karen

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For whatever reason Glenbervie Skytime is a dog my pedigree program stops at too, but looking at my alphabetical listing I see that there are Glenbervie Sky Flash, Glenbervie Sky Belle, Sky Dream of Denorsi and Eng.Ch. Skytime of Glenbervie all in the same litter. This really does suggest a Sky themed litter drawn from the dam's name -- Sky Gypsy of Glenbervie -- and it may well be that G. Skytime or Sky Time is one and the same Skytime of Glenbervie. It is hard to image they would name two dogs from the same kennel with almost identical names.

I think it would have been quite easy for someone down the line to have written G. Skytime when they meant Skytime of Glenbervie, and the error gets passed down the line from that point forward on pedigrees.

In terms of Moonwind Jocaster, I am currently stopped there too so I cannot help on that one.

Lanny

 

[Tesa]

Thanks as always Lanny. I have the come to the same conclusion as you, but unless I can get it confirmed, then I am reluctant to continue on with the line. It's a pity because it completes the link back to Zuber

Karen )

 

[Avalonia]

Thanks as always Lanny.  I have the come to the same conclusion as you, but unless I can get it confirmed, then I am reluctant to continue on with the line.  It's a pity because it completes the link back to Zuber
Karen  )

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I am the same as you. There must be someone in England with a long memory or a good pedigree program that would know this definitively (she asks hopefully!!!). But it is now reaching back nearly 40 years and there are not a lot of breeders still active (or even with us anymore), to say nothing about being on the internet and viewing this forum, that may remember this miniscule detail.

I do note that Nev and Edith Newton's first great English Ch., Eng.Ch. Akeferry Jimmy is listed in my program as having been bred to the dog identified as Glenbervie Skytime, producing Ruegeto King of Peace. And then I look at my records for Eng.Ch. Sky Time of Glenbervie and see she was bred to Akeferry Jimmy and produced Eng.Ch. Ruegeto Nina of Nevedith and Ruegeto Nikki of Nevedith, both born on 30 June 1975. I think if you add two and one you get a single litter in this case. The coincidence seems too great to be anything else.

Lanny

 

[dawn]

There is a yahoo group for whippet pedigrees which has some very well informed members from the UK as well as the rest of the world.

 

[SIZE=14pt]Whippet Pedigree's at Yahoo[/SIZE]

It may be worth joining and asking your question there (unless you are already a member in which case ignore this message )

 

[rag dog]

Thanks as always Lanny.  I have the come to the same conclusion as you, but unless I can get it confirmed, then I am reluctant to continue on with the line.  It's a pity because it completes the link back to Zuber
Karen  )

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Karen My records show CH Skytime Of Glenbervie was sired by Steelbridge Of Glenbervie x CH Shalfleet Shakespeare (Imp Uk). Now in the Whippet Archives it is listed as CH Glenbervie Skytime which could be a mistake as the pedigree is not continued from her listing I hope this will help.

Bill Coggins

 

[Tesa]

Thanks as always Lanny.  I have the come to the same conclusion as you, but unless I can get it confirmed, then I am reluctant to continue on with the line.  It's a pity because it completes the link back to Zuber
Karen  )

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Karen My records show CH Skytime Of Glenbervie was sired by Steelbridge Of Glenbervie x CH Shalfleet Shakespeare (Imp Uk). Now in the Whippet Archives it is listed as CH Glenbervie Skytime which could be a mistake as the pedigree is not continued from her listing I hope this will help.

Bill Coggins

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Edited: Opps need to go back and check something.... will be back :wacko:

 

[Tesa]

Thanks as always Lanny.  I have the come to the same conclusion as you, but unless I can get it confirmed, then I am reluctant to continue on with the line.  It's a pity because it completes the link back to Zuber
Karen  )

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Karen My records show CH Skytime Of Glenbervie was sired by Steelbridge Of Glenbervie x CH Shalfleet Shakespeare (Imp Uk). Now in the Whippet Archives it is listed as CH Glenbervie Skytime which could be a mistake as the pedigree is not continued from her listing I hope this will help.

Bill Coggins

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Edited: Opps need to go back and check something.... will be back :wacko:

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Okay am back again....

I came across this:

UK Ch Skytime of Glenbervie

w: 31/3/1970

Particolour

Breeder - Mrs J R & Mr D C Selby

Owner - Mrs R Topham

S: Steelbridge of Glenbervie

D: Sky Gypsy of Glenbervie

Must add the source is unreliable on this - it was just a google link I came up with, but it does match my info

I had also got some of my info off the Whippet Archive Bill, which is why I got stuck at the Skytime Glenbervie. As soon as I reversed the order of names things became clearer. But we still have two different dams for the one dog

Karen )

 

[Avalonia]

Karen My records show CH Skytime Of Glenbervie was sired by Steelbridge Of Glenbervie x CH Shalfleet Shakespeare (Imp Uk). Now in the Whippet Archives it is listed as CH Glenbervie Skytime which could be a mistake as the pedigree is not continued from her listing I hope this will help.

Bill Coggins

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In this case Karen is right and Bill you are wrong. I got my information straight from the mouth of two horses: Mary Lowe's Volume One of Whippet Champions, which provides the parentage conclusively, and from the records of Edith Newton who retains multiple generation pedigrees records of every single dog they have bred and owned, including Ruegeto Nina of Nevedith which listed Sky Gypsy of Glenbervie as mother of Skytime, and grandmother of Ruegeto Nina of Nevedith. Mary Lowe's work was done accessing the Kennel Club records, and Edith's records are at the same unimpeachable high level.

So the only question remains, did someone, at some time in the past mistakenly put Skytime in the wrong place in a handwritten pedigree.

Lanny

 

[Avalonia]

Okay am back again....

I came across this:

UK Ch Skytime of Glenbervie

w: 31/3/1970

Particolour

Breeder - Mrs J R & Mr D C Selby

Owner - Mrs R Topham

S: Steelbridge of Glenbervie

D: Sky Gypsy of Glenbervie

Hi back Karen. I spent some time today going through the show catalogues of The Whippet Club, going all the way back to 1968. I was very lucky when a friend, who attended the WC shows for three and a half decades asked me if I would be custodian for the next generation of all her English whippet material. The Whippet Club catalogues are part of that lovely legacy.

I must say it is a bit humbling to take one of those catalogues in your hands and see great English champions and sires like Ch. Akeferry Jimmy being shown in the minor puppy dog class! Where oh where has all the time gone.

In any case, I digress. In going through the catalogues I found several of Skytime of Glenbervie's littermates being shown, with the same parents and same birthdates being given in each case: 31 March 1970. This includes one male dog showin in the junior dog class on 3 April 1971 who is not on the Whippet Archives file -- Waycross Titus Oates. This suggests this was a shared breeding and shared litter.

Here are the dogs I was able to identify as being littermates, all born on 31 March 1970:

Eng.Ch. Skytime of Glenbervie

Glenbervie Sky Flash

Sky Dream of Denorsi

Waycross Titus Oates

Waycross Dante

Aust.Ch. Glenbervie Sky Belle

Int.& Belg.Ch. Glenbervie Steelsword.

In a second Whippet Club catalogue, this one dated 10 April 1976 I found three littermates sired by Eng.Ch. Akeferry Jimmy out of Eng.Ch. Skytime of Glenbervie, all born on 30 June 1975, being shown that day:

Ruegeto Nikki of Nevedith, shown in the puppy dog class. He was not placed. Shortly after that, as you probably know, he was sold to Australia and is behind many dogs in the Moonwind bloodline.

His litter sisters, Ruegeto Gay Romance, owned by Mike Howgate, and Ruegeto Nina of Nevedith, owned by Editha Newton, were shown in puppy bitch and Ruegeto Nina of Nevedith placed first in the class of 21 bitches, and her litter sister Ruegeto Gay Romance was placed third.

Best of Breed that day was Linda Jones' Welstar Minted Model.

I am now convinced we should both write off Glenbervie Skytime and correct the Whippet Archive so it reflects the actual name of the dog -- Skytime of Glenbervie.

Lanny

 

[BeeJay]

I have Ch Skytime of Glenbervie (Steel Bridge of Glenbervie x Ch Sky Gypsy of Glenbervie) that's how it's given in the BRS 12/70.

I've found pedigree's in the whippet archives that are wrong too.

 

[rag dog]

Karen My records show CH Skytime Of Glenbervie was sired by Steelbridge Of Glenbervie x CH Shalfleet Shakespeare (Imp Uk). Now in the Whippet Archives it is listed as CH Glenbervie Skytime which could be a mistake as the pedigree is not continued from her listing I hope this will help.

Bill Coggins

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In this case Karen is right and Bill you are wrong. I got my information straight from the mouth of two horses: Mary Lowe's Volume One of Whippet Champions, which provides the parentage conclusively, and from the records of Edith Newton who retains multiple generation pedigrees records of every single dog they have bred and owned, including Ruegeto Nina of Nevedith which listed Sky Gypsy of Glenbervie as mother of Skytime, and grandmother of Ruegeto Nina of Nevedith. Mary Lowe's work was done accessing the Kennel Club records, and Edith's records are at the same unimpeachable high level.

So the only question remains, did someone, at some time in the past mistakenly put Skytime in the wrong place in a handwritten pedigree.

Lanny

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Lanny The information I passed on in good faith regarding CH Skytime of Glenbervie came from a 1983 local produced Whippet book. I have now consulted Mary Lowe's Whippet Champions 1960-1986 and by george you are right there is no CH Shalfleet Shakespeare (IMP UK) that appears in the pedigree and in the future I will not necessarily beleive everthing I read. Regards Bill

 

[Tesa]

Karen      My records show CH Skytime Of Glenbervie was sired by Steelbridge Of Glenbervie x CH Shalfleet Shakespeare (Imp Uk). Now in the Whippet Archives it is listed as CH Glenbervie Skytime which could be a mistake as the pedigree is not continued from her listing I hope this will help.

Bill Coggins

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So the only question remains, did someone, at some time in the past mistakenly put Skytime in the wrong place in a handwritten pedigree.

Lanny

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Lanny The information I passed on in good faith regarding CH Skytime of Glenbervie came from a 1983 local produced Whippet book. I have now consulted Mary Lowe's Whippet Champions 1960-1986 and by george you are right there is no CH Shalfleet Shakespeare (IMP UK) that appears in the pedigree and in the future I will not necessarily beleive everthing I read. Regards Bill

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Bill, I showed at KCC Park a week back, so I took myself off to the VCA library, and borrowed a couple of books. By mere co-incident, I think I have come home with the book you have mentioned. The Whippet Book - 1983 - Published by the Whippet Club of Australia. What a fabulous treasure trove it is. The last chapter is devoted to presenting photo's and pedigrees of some of the noteable dogs of that era. It looks to be hand typed, so I think this is where the error has occured, the typist has run out of room, and transposed the order of Skytime's name on the Moonwind Royal Albert pedigree. This book also had Skytime's name correct a few pages latter on the pedigree of Famoustee Early Knight.

Karen