Muzzles

[doggie1]

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HI, it's me again with a dilemma, sorry! In a few weeks we are going abroad on holiday. Eddi is all jabbed up ready to go - we took our Beagle everywhere with us and wanted to do the same with Eddi, which is going to be more problematic. We could put him in Kennels for the duration of the holiday, but we feel that it would set him back in his progress, but obviously, as we are going in a campervan and staying on camp sites, his barking is going to be a huge problem. I don't want to do it, but could we put some muzzle on him to stop him from barking until he gets used to the camp site? If so which one? My OH is concerned that he won't be able to pant when hot does anyone know of one that could be ideal.

He hasn't been camping with us yet and we are going to take him out for nights here before we set off to see how good he will be. We don't want to leave him behind if we can avoid it.

 

[Violet Turner]

i recommend basket muzzle, but it wont help with barking.@JudyN and @JoanneF will be more helpful

 

[doggie1]

i recommend basket muzzle, but it wont help with barking.@JudyN and @JoanneF will be more helpful

That is the problem, it has to at least reduce his barking.

 

[Violet Turner]

That is the problem, it has to at least reduce his barking.

Yeah I know, @JudyN will be able to advise you with what muzzle is appropriate for your connivance and going on camp holidays and holidays in general

 

[JudyN]

I absolutely wouldn't muzzle him to stop his barking. It would be stressful for him in addition to not helping him deal with the anxiety of being in a new place - imagine if you gagged a child to stop them being noisy. Plus as your OH says, it could be dangerous as it would prevent him from panting and breathing deeply.

If it was me I would either find a dog sitter/boarder or cancel the holiday. You have a few weeks so you could find a dog sitter you're happy with, let him go with them for a few walks, then have a day with them... gradually build up to see if it's working (obviously you'll need someone who is understanding of Eddi's issues.).

If you can't find someone, do seriously consider cancelling the holiday. Have a staycation, go for pub lunches, pretend you're on holiday. It may seem drastic but it's only a week or so, and you don't risk unravelling all the work you've done.

 

[doggie1]

I've just looked, there are a few about, don't know if they allow panting though.

 

[JudyN]

If they stop barking they won't allow panting.

 

[doggie1]

If they stop barking they won't allow panting.

We'll just have to put the muzzle on when he is barking manically and hope that we can take it off when he settles down. we don't want him to have it on all the time anyway, that would be no fun at all! He has had a muzzle on when he had a bad paw and we didn't want him to snap whilst I looked at it.

 

[leashedForLife]

I've just looked, there are a few about, don't know if they allow panting though.

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sorry to be blunt, but there is no such thing as a SAFE muzzle that "stops barking"!
Any muzzle that holds a dog's mouth closed will stop barking - however, that means it also prevents the dog *panting*, which is critical for dogs to safely regulate their core temp, & dogs can quickly overheat, even in cool environs, if they are stressed physically or distressed emotionally, & cannot pant freely.

As a certified vet's assistant, I can say with certitude that groomer's muzzles or 'tube muzzles' are extremely dangerous, & those are the models that hold dogs' mouths closed. // Any time a dog has a core temp over 103' F, they can begin to convulse, & a seizure sends their core-temp spiking even higher very quickly. Dogs who overheat & seize can suffer brain damage or permanent organ damage, assuming they don't simply die. They can be blind, deaf, paralyzed in all 4 limbs or on one side only, be permanently epileptic, have liver or kidney damage or neurological damage, tremors, loss of balance, etc.

IMO, any vet who uses a groomer's muzzle rather than a safe, properly-fitted basket muzzle should have her or his license to practice revoked for life. It's that serious a threat to a dog's life & health; using them is criminal, because they are inherently unsafe, in fact life-threatening when a dog is stressed or anxious, & their use is highly unethical.
The REASON that vets use them is "because they're cheaper" - well, if a dog dies or suffers permanent injury consequent to wearing one, U have not "saved money" - U've cost a dog & their family the health, functionality, or even the life of that pet.
Even the mesh versions are no safer than the solid plastic-tube type; they reduce the dog's mouth to a narrow slot, & it's impossible for the dog to PANT easily with a wide-open mouth & patent airway.

All of the muzzles shown below are dangerous but one - the basket muzzle in the 1st photo.
The "mesh" whole-face muzzle on the brachycephalic dog is especially dangerous - short-faced breeds already have narrowed sinuses & limited airways, due to congenital stenosis & a soft palate that falls into the threat & occludes their throat & trachea.

- terry

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[doggie1]

No need to get cross @leashedForLife , we knew there might be a problem that's why I asked the question.

 

[JoanneF]

Putting a muzzle on while he is barking is likely to increase his stress levels and set your training back a lot. It is a bit like gagging someone who has a desperate need to say something - if you suppress that behaviour something more serious ay result instead through his frustration. Our advice so far has been a lot to do with avoiding raising his arousal levels so if you do take this holiday, try to find a camping pitch as far away from busy areas as you can. You could try to tackle the barking as a separate issue - while it does seem to be related to over-arousal you might have some success but like refusing food if he is too far over threshold it won't even be worth trying. The videos below may help.

 

[doggie1]

Putting a muzzle on while he is barking is likely to increase his stress levels and set your training back a lot. It is a bit like gagging someone who has a desperate need to say something - if you suppress that behaviour something more serious ay result instead through his frustration. Our advice so far has been a lot to do with avoiding raising his arousal levels so if you do take this holiday, try to find a camping pitch as far away from busy areas as you can. You could try to tackle the barking as a separate issue - while it does seem to be related to over-arousal you might have some success but like refusing food if he is too far over threshold it won't even be worth trying. The videos below may help.

Thanks for that. We are going to Portugal to check it out with a view to moving before Brexit. We lived in Spain and we want to see how it compares as we didn't care for Spain as a place to live in. The OH is also looking forward to a holiday in the warmth as he has been working so hard. I am too. We just can't leave Eddi behind. We seem to be in a rock and a hard place. Eddi is chucking his nylon bone around now because he wants to go for a walk. Wish me luck!!

 

[JoanneF]

Oops, not sure what happened with the third link!

 

[JoanneF]

If it is Portugal and warm then all the more important he should be able to pant. His raised arousal will also increase his heartbeat and respiration rate so please, please don't muzzle him.

On a personal note, Portugal is on our radar - where are you thinking of going and importantly for us, how do you find the roads? We heard they were pretty rough.

 

[doggie1]

If it is Portugal and warm then all the more important he should be able to pant. His raised arousal will also increase his heartbeat and respiration rate so please, please don't muzzle him.

On a personal note, Portugal is on our radar - where are you thinking of going and importantly for us, how do you find the roads? We heard they were pretty rough.

We've been to Portugal before, if you go to the tourist places especially the Algarve, the roads are good. there is also a motor way from around Lisbon I think right down to the Algrave If you go into the interior where the small villages are they might be a bit rougher. Going East to West is OK too if you stick to the main towns.
I don't know what we're going to do with this dog. I love hm to bits, but he is a challenge. Right got to take him for his walk.

 

[Josie]

Surely that french bull dog muzzle isn’t a thing?

I guess the first thing is to go and test it out first like you said. Although it won’t be the same place it will still be the same style of situation. What will he most likely bark at? (Hoping you don’t say everything! )

 

[JoanneF]

go and test it out first like you said

Oh no, Doggie 1, please don't test muzzles for barking - if they keep the mouth so closed as to stop barking they aren't safe for a dog that needs to pant; and if they safely allow panting he will still be able to bark

 

[doggie1]

Oh no, Doggie 1, please don't test muzzles for barking - if they keep the mouth so closed as to stop barking they aren't safe for a dog that needs to pant; and if they safely allow panting he will still be able to bark

I think Josie means testing out the camping.

 

[doggie1]

Surely that french bull dog muzzle isn’t a thing?

I guess the first thing is to go and test it out first like you said. Although it won’t be the same place it will still be the same style of situation. What will he most likely bark at? (Hoping you don’t say everything! )

Sorry, you got it in one!

 

[Josie]

I did mean test out camping not muzzles @JoanneF

Oh gosh - well all you can do is try and see how he reacts. Is it a constant barking? It would be a shame for you to base your whole existence of what you can and cannot do because of your dog