My new favourite raw feeding article

[JudyN]

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For everyone thinking raw feeding is an arcane science, read on. Yes, it really can be this simple

Lurchers for Beginners: The Raw Truth - greydogtales

 

[JoanneF]

Great article. The only thing is "They don’t all immediately die after eating a few grapes" - actually, some do. We don't really understand grape toxicity, a teeny dog could eat a barrowload and be fine, a giant could eat ten and be dead. The size of the dog doesn't correlate to the amount consumed so please treat grape/raisins consumption as a vet emergency for induced vomiting.

I tried to post that on the site but couldn't- if you are a member, please nudge them.

 

[JudyN]

No, I'm not a member - I might be able to get in touch with them via Facebook though...

... I've left a comment. Of course, he might reply that he did say they don't all immediately die. Or even that some don't die immediately but take their time about it.....

 

[JoanneF]

No, I'm not a member - I might be able to get in touch with them via Facebook though...

... I've left a comment. Of course, he might reply that he did say they don't all immediately die. Or even that some don't die immediately but take their time about it.....

I scouted about and after a few tries I was able to leave a message. Great article apart from that though.

 

[JudyN]

I found this webpage: Can Dogs Eat Grapes? My Puppy Ate One, Vet Says He Will Die

They still stress that there is no 'safe' amount, but state 'For the most severe outcome of acute renal failure (kidney failure), the lowest documented toxic grape dose is 0.32 to 0.65 ounces of grapes per kilogram of body weight'

Based on that they give a run-down of what weight of grapes dogs of various breeds should be able to eat and survive (which makes a lot of assumptions about scalability)... but of course just because they don't show clear illness doesn't mean they're not doing some harm.

Jasper once ate half a bag of Alpen, complete with a lot of raisins. He was fine (and the young locum vet I spoke to on the phone hadn't even heard that grapes/raisins could be toxic), but I still wouldn't intentionally give him a single grape/raisin.

 

[JoanneF]

My maths is rubbish. But 0.32 oz = 0.907 grams (google) - just under a gram.

A grape weighs 5 grams. So for a 1 kilo dog, a fifth of a grape could be toxic?

 

[JudyN]

0.32oz is 9.07g - you've misplaced a decimal point somewhere along the way. So a 1kg dog could, in theory, eat just under 2 grapes. Or at least, there's no reports of dogs being severely harmed by eating less than that.

 

[JoanneF]

you've misplaced a decimal point somewhere along the way

Oh, I do that a LOT! oops ... That said, I have heard reports that no amount of grape is safe (sorry, no sources for now) so I wouldnt risk it at all.

 

[JudyN]

I wouldnt risk it at all.

No, absolutely. Because these findings weren't based on science (because they don't know the cause), just on the data of known toxic reactions. And it won't take into account dogs who showed no apparent symptoms but kidneys might have been compromised, leading to problems years later. I think it's really just advising you not to panic if your dog does snaffle a few because, depending on size, the dog will probably be OK. But it does also seem to show that statistically speaking at least, toxicity is related to size.

 

[Mad Murphy]

Great article , really witty and that makes it easy for the complete novice to feel happier about raw.

Im also really pleased to read that dubious salesmen and odd charity collectors go missing in other doggy households too and its not just something that occurs at ours !

As for grapes, we try to avoid the dogs ever getting grapes but the problem with having a parrot is that they do tend to share everything so the dogs get a share of nut, carrot, seeds and sometimes a bit of half chewed grape. As yet, fingers crossed they have all always been ok but it is not something I allow if possible.
Risks have to be weighed up in a mixed household.

 

[Edie]

Many years ago our family dog was a labrador. It must have been around Christmas time as I had baked sweet mince pies. I left them on the kitchen unit, whilst I took home my sons girlfriend. Our dog pulled them off the unit and ate all 18 of them. On my return I was furious unaware currants and raisins were poisonous. During the night she vomited and had no ill effects
I realise now she was very lucky

 

[JoanneF]

I have been reading more about it. Even a small amount could lead to kidney damage, but the problem is that while some dogs are affected, others are fine and there is no way of knowing which. The vet's advice is to treat consumption as an emergency and induce vomiting before possible damage to the kidneys occurs.

 

[Mad Murphy]

@JudyN do you ever give lambs head/ tongue? ,a local butcher is offering them at €2.50 but im not too sure about how best to offer or prepare a whole head!

 

[JudyN]

@Mad Murphy no, I can't give Jasper bones that he can't polish off quickly because of his guarding - and he's not good at digesting anything denser than chicken. Some people with tiny dogs will give them a whole chicken, remove it when they think the dog's had enough, rinse it under the tap and put it back in the fridge, and then give it to them the next day to have a bit more (and so on...). Which I guess is what wild dogs would do with a large caracass, though they wouldn't rinse it and put it in the fridge!

If you didn't fancy doing something similar, could you ask the butcher if they could take a cleaver to it and chop it into halves? Though it would be fun to leave it whole in the fridge on a plate and wait for some unsuspecting victim to open the door....

 

[excuseme]

Ooohhh, I never thought of asking for animal heads, never seen them advertised either, they would be fantastic for the medium/ bigger dogs.
I am sure our butchers would not be able to handle sheep heads because the wool would be left on it.
We used to have our own sheep back from the slaughter house with their ears still on (so that we knew they were our lambs and could identify which one we were eating) but skins off. This was stopped because they could not leave the slaughter house for human consumption with wooly ears still attached. (probably 40/45 years ago).
When ears were still attached and after we had butchered our lambs, the bags of meat in the freezer would have the lambs name on it, eg; Abba or Willy so that we knew who we were eating

 

[niamh123]

I used to feed pigs head's would get the butcher to cut them in big pieces and mine also loved beef and lamb tongue

Their favourite part of the head was the brain

 

[Mad Murphy]

Well they have offered to remove the tongue if I want as a service. Not sure about eyeballs and teeth to be honest its a bit on the gruesome side..

Its a halal butcher so they have this kind of thing where a mainstream butcher might not but they were very friendly I was a bit careful about mentioning dogs but they were fine about it.

 

[niamh123]

I would keep the tongues my dogs loved them,I used to buy quite a bit from Halal butcher's they are usually cheaper than ordinary butcher's

 

[JoanneF]

I'm sure I read somewhere that the tongue (not necessarily bovine) is the strongest muscle in the body so I imagine they should get a good chew on it.

 

[JudyN]

I can't decide if this thread needs to have photos or not...