Nervous puppy, best age to take ?

[chipper]

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Good morning all, first post so here goes.

My wife and I have been to look at a litter of Lurcher puppies which are almost 5 weeks old, my wife immediately fell in love with one particular puppy ,however, my concern is that the puppy, although healthy, does seem to be quite nervous and shy , I did explain to her that perhaps we may be better choosing one which is more confident and outgoing but she does have her heart set on little Bella (yes she's already named her) so the deal was done and a deposit paid. I know that the most important thing with pups (especially a timid, nervy pup) is to socialise her as much as possible within the first 12 weeks and to create a bond and gain the puppies trust.

We are both recently retired so the pup will be with us constantly in the home , so i would appreciate some help and advice on a couple of points please.

Obviously we want to give the puppy as good a start in life as possible so would  it be better to take the puppy at 6 weeks of age ( the owner is not a registered breeder) rather than the usual 8 weeks so as to start the bonding and socialising sooner, or would it be better to wait the extra couple of weeks?. 

Many thanks in advance 

 

[JoanneF]

Gypsysmum  (another member) will probably be better to advise on the age, but I'd like to chip in on socialisation. You can (and should) take Bella out before her second injections provided she is safe in a carrier, a sling, or even in your arms as long as she isn't a wriggler. This allows her to observe the world from a safe place. Socialisation is not about everyone and every dog meeting her. Think quality, not quantity.  Letting all and sundry (people and dogs) near a puppy can be overwhelming andfrightening - the opposite of what you want. Control the socialisation by being selective, especially with other dogs and kids. Look for calm role model dogs, and adults and children who can be trusted not to get over excited. Socialisation is not about plunging your puppy into every new experience, but rather allowing her to see, hear and get used to people and situations calmly and from a safe position.

 

[chipper]

Hi Joanne 

Thankyou for very much for the reply and your sound advice, it's very much appreciated.

My apologies for not being a little clearer, yes I fully understand your point regarding quality rather than quantity and to not over face her with too many new situations , As I understand it there is only a relatively short window of around 12 weeks for the pup to become socialised so I suppose I am thinking along the lines that if she is a nervous puppy then perhaps the extra two weeks she is socialising and bonding with my wife and I would hopefully be more beneficial to her.

once again many thanks and kind regards.

 

[Kate75]

Hi Chipper

Please don't be tempted to take her at 6 weeks.  Its way too young and she will miss out on a lot of essential learning that she can only get from her litter mates which will only help build her confidence in the next few weeks.  

We took our Holly (GSD) to puppy classes run by our local vets for the first 4 weeks after we brought her home. They were aimed at pups aged 8-16 weeks and were excellent as they didn't allow more than 5 pups in the class.  It was run and controlled by one of their animal behaviourists who was able to watch each pup and supervise and control all contact.  Holly, despite being more than twice the size of all the other pups there, spent the whole first session behind my legs just watching.  But by the last session (she was around 13/14 weeks by this point) she was joining in with everything!  I've noticed since then that a lot of our local dog trainers offer similar sessions for pups so even if your vets don't offer them its worth checking locally.  Make sure they are controlled and limited as a mass meet up in a local hall with little or no control could have the opposite affect on your pup!

Holly is now 10 months and super sociable, although its a bit too much as her recall training has suffered as a result.  She thinks every dog and human wants to play and be her best friend!  However I think given the choice I would rather have her like this than nervous and scared of every strange dog and human like our first GSD was.  

 

[hollysh]

Dont be worried about her seeming nervous and shy at this stage. After all she is only a few weeks old and she is just adjusting to life. 

From experience I think it can be good sometimes to get a puppy that seems less confident to start with. Our first family dog was a Westie. I wanted the confident girl dog, the boys seemed weaker some how. Well she was certainly strong willed. And as much as we loved her, she could be quite snappy and stubborn. Wasn't the best dog for cuddles really, unless with people she knew. A few months after she died we decided to get a puppy, this time a Cavachon. My mum purposefully went out to get a puppy that was quiet and shy, gentle good companion, good with children. He is most of those things but hes certainly not shy anymore. Took him about 5 minutes to settle in

So think dont judge the book by the cover. There is almost certainly a personality in there dying to get out. And probably just feels overwhelmed by all her litter mates at the moment. 

I agree though that you should stick to 8 weeks. Time with her family and her mum. She will be upset at first anyway when she leaves her mum. May as well give them that time together. 

 

[gypsysmum2]

Guide Dogs are the biggest breeder in the UK. They have done extensive research into the right age to place their puppies in the new foster homes. They send them at seven weeks. The pups all come back to them for socialisation classes and the foster carers are all trained in the socialisation process. I think they believe that sending them at eight weeks and then vaccinating the puppy straight away is not a good move.

I took my last Whippet puppy from the breeder at seven weeks and she was fine. As Joanne has said I took her out and about in a sling and invited people over to see her. We attended two lots of puppy classes. One was totally unsuitable as the nurses allowed the pups to be hooligans so we stayed with the ones run by an APDT dog trainer.

What is your breeder like? Are the puppies kept in the house? Is the mother a calm, confident dog? The general advice is to choose the medium puppy. So not the nervous one or the very bold one but the one that takes life in its stride. I did the same as you though and chose the one that stayed separate from the others. Not nervous, just detached. It turned out that she was carrying a gene for an auto immune disease (Addisons). I think that it was evident even at that early stage. Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

This makes interesting reading   http://breedingbetterdogs.com/article/early-neurological-stimulation

I asked my breeder (It was her first litter) to follow some of the guidelines. I also asked her to move the litter into the busy kitchen area so that they were exposed to family life from an early age. I gave her a cd of scary noises (Sounds Scary) to play quietly to the litter. I bet she was glad when I was out of her hair  To be fair she was on a learning curve and was very receptive to new ideas.

 

[chipper]

Thank you all for your valuable advice, i agree with  everyone and it certainly makes sense to leave her with her mother and litter mates till she is 8 weeks old . Just to mention a couple of things : firstly it is the Dams first litter and she is a very gentle and approachable dog as most greyhounds are and she and the pups live in the living room in a large dog crate so hopefully as mentioned our pup may come out of her shell a little. Time will tell.

I will post again once she is with us and let you know how she's doing.

Thanks once again. Atb 

 

[JoanneF]

And photos please!

 

[chipper]

And photos please!

Here's Bella 

pics taken when we went to vew

 

[leashedForLife]

Aww! - what a cutie.

I agree with many above that 8-WO is a good age to leave mum & sibs - especially for a somewhat soft pup who would be a little needier than most, when leaving their birth family.
Here's a great resource for puppy advice -
http://www.dogstardaily.com/free-downloads

I'd suggest downloading the double-book 1st, 'Before ...' & 'After U Get Ur Puppy'  -- Dr Dunbar is a vet who has spent most of his career working with pet owners & their dogs, as many years ago, he was shocked to discover that no puppy-training classes existed for dogs under 6-MO; the prevailing methods were yank & crank, & young pups "couldn't take the training".     Of course, older pups didn't cope much better, but that was the standard, at the time.

He lays out very good, safe, humane ways to teach puppy manners, cued behaviors, & avoid future problems by teaching what we want - rather than inadvertently teach what we DON't want.
One of his strong recommendations is for every pup to meet at least 100 friendly strangers between 8 & 12-WO - that's 25 a week, as different from each other & from the pup's family as possible; able / disabled, old/ young, tall / short, all skin colors, all diets [makes us smell very different], various languages & mannerisms, Type-A fast talkers & relaxed meditative folks, with & without random accessories that flash, dangle, jingle, clatter, etc.

- terry

Terry Pride, member Truly Dog-Friendly
'dogs R dogs, wolves R wolves, & primates R us.' - (™ 2007)

 

[chipper]

Aww! - what a cutie.

I agree with many above that 8-WO is a good age to leave mum & sibs - especially for a somewhat soft pup who would be a little needier than most, when leaving their birth family.
Here's a great resource for puppy advice -
http://www.dogstardaily.com/free-downloads

I'd suggest downloading the double-book 1st, 'Before ...' & 'After U Get Ur Puppy'  -- Dr Dunbar is a vet who has spent most of his career working with pet owners & their dogs, as many years ago, he was shocked to discover that no puppy-training classes existed for dogs under 6-MO; the prevailing methods were yank & crank, & young pups "couldn't take the training".     Of course, older pups didn't cope much better, but that was the standard, at the time.

He lays out very good, safe, humane ways to teach puppy manners, cued behaviors, & avoid future problems by teaching what we want - rather than inadvertently teach what we DON't want.
One of his strong recommendations is for every pup to meet at least 100 friendly strangers between 8 & 12-WO - that's 25 a week, as different from each other & from the pup's family as possible; able / disabled, old/ young, tall / short, all skin colors, all diets [makes us smell very different], various languages & mannerisms, Type-A fast talkers & relaxed meditative folks, with & without random accessories that flash, dangle, jingle, clatter, etc.

- terry

Terry Pride, member Truly Dog-Friendly
'dogs R dogs, wolves R wolves, & primates R us.' - (™ 2007)

Thankyou very much, very informative and excellent advice.

 

[chipper]

Hi everyone 

Just a quick update on our Lurcher puppy Molly (yes she's had a name change lol). She is now just over 9 weeks old and doing extremely well. As you're probably aware we did have a couple of initials concerns regarding what would be the best age to take her and also the fact that she seemed very shy and timid when we first went to view the puppies at 4 1/2 weeks old.

Well ,firstly, I must confess we did compromise and brought her home when she was just over 7 weeks old and we couldn't be more pleased at how quickly she has settled in, she has really burst out of her shell ( you were right hollysh) and become a very confident little character who is always happy to meet new people and eager to please, she is also very quick to learn and sits, lies, and retrieves, she is almost house trained and on a night sleeps in her crate without complaint.

At the moment she's confined to the house and garden until she has her 2nd inoculation next week then a week later she can be let loose into the big wide world!.

Below are a couple of pics taken today.

Once again may I thank everyone for their valuable help and advice.

 

[JoanneF]

She looks lovely but do, if you can, take her out sooner in a carrier or sling - it will massively help her build confidence!

 

[chipper]

Hi Joanne

yes I do carry her round the block in my arms, however she's such a wriggler and getting bigger and stronger that it's almost a wrestling match! What we have started doing , which she loves, is taking her in the car to the supermarket car park and park as close as possible to the entrance/exit and let her stick her head out of the window and take it all in, we have to keep a tight hold as she is so desperate to meet people if they pass close by she really would jump out the window!. Roll on 2 weeks time when her isolation period is over.(lol)

kind regards

 

[leashedForLife]

Seconding JoAnne -
please do get her out in the wide world! --- several weeks wasted of her critical socialization window can never be gotten back, it's gone forever.

If U are anxious about exposure, common-sense is sufficient to keep her safe from Parvo - she is past the risk of fatal infection, statistically - 85% of 5-WO pups who develop Parvo will die, despite skilled vet-care. Conversely, 85% of 8-WO pups will live with just good home nursing.  The difference is age & the greater development of the older pups' GI tract, which is less permeable & growth has slowed, making it less-ideal for the virus to attack.

I know i'm not a vet, but do please read this open letter from DVM Anderson about the risk to dogs' lives from under-socialization & delaying their exposure to the world; 

A Letter on Puppy Socialization from Dr. RK Anderson, DVM - APDT
apdt.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/APDT_TYDMRKLetter.pdf

habituation is happy experiences with non-living things, while socialization is happy experiences of living beings. Both are needed, & time is short: the PRIMARY window for them is only from 5-WO to 12-WO, anything after that takes many-more brief, happy exposures to have the desired good effect.  That month from 8 to 12 weeks is the golden moment - please don't miss it, when the learning is quick & easy.  
- terry
 

 

[leashedForLife]

Hi Joanne

yes I do carry her round the block in my arms, however she's such a wriggler and getting bigger and stronger that it's almost a wrestling match! What we have started doing , which she loves, is taking her in the car to the supermarket car park and park as close as possible to the entrance/exit and let her stick her head out of the window and take it all in, we have to keep a tight hold as she is so desperate to meet people if they pass close by she really would jump out the window!.
Roll on 2 weeks time when her isolation period is over. (lol)

kind regards

U can actually take her out on a leash - safely.
The key to avoid places where other dogs have STOOLED - not "avoid touching the ground". // Paved surfaces that are not visibly soiled with feces are fine, assuming that U aren't in a desert climate where rain is rare, & i think U're in the UK?  ---- where rain is reliable & frequent.

Try not to worry excessively, & show Dr Anderson's letter to Ur own vet if U feel at all uncertain - U can fax it or e-mail it, if dropping it off is awkward.
- terry

 

[chipper]

Thankyou both for your replies I shall read up right now,

regards

 

[JoanneF]

If you are near a beach you can take her along the the tide line as the tide is going out. The water will have washed away anything that could infect her.

 

[leashedForLife]

Yes! -- just go during the falling tide, or at low tide for the most beach - then stay below the line of tide-wrack, where the upper limit of the water is marked by seaweed, shells, & other bits left behind. // The firm damp sand is safe - GO AROUND any freshly-deposited dog poop, tho.
And don't let the little stinker eat gull-droppings, dead fish, or find a baited fish-hook to swallow  -  pups have a tendency to take risks!
 - terry