Night time nightmare!

[madspringers]

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Hello!

So glad I found this forum, i'm new and struggling with night time with my 7month old springer. I also have a 3 year old springer.

7 month old has been great with everything apart from night time. Her recall is good and rest of her training is fine. Her and the 3 year old get on really well.

At night as she was so bouncy as a baby we crated her. She doesn't mind the crate and will go in there when she wants some peace and quite. 3 year old is not crated at night.

Problem is this: When crated, 7 month old does not mess her bed, she goes out before bed and first thing and there are no accidents, so she is able to hold it all night. If she isn't crated, she will go on the floor (both pee and poop).

She never has accidents on the floor during the day, or before bed. She knows full well to go outside and if the door is closed to cry to go out. If she is not crated during the night, she doesn't cry and still there are accidents on the floor. If I put her back in the crate the next night, totally fine, no accidents.

I don't want to have to crate her forever, especially with the 3 year old having the freedom he does.

Any suggestions?! I cannot understand why she can hold it in the crate, but not when she is out of it!

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[stashers]

A dog won't mess in it's own bed (usually) so in a small crate, it will be forced to hold it in to avoid doing so.

it's a difficult scenario really but i'd say back to basics training i guess. Remove the crate all together for a few days, perhaps invest in a stair gate for the kitchen/bedroom/whatever so that it's still your dog's room at night. Set an alarm for around 2:30am and go down to let your dog out during the night.

​My pup already recognises my angry voice so me pointing at an accident and saying "what is this?" has helped him to learn that doing it in the house is not acceptable.

Over night is always hard though because obviously you aren't around to keep watch.

Best of luck!

 

[JoanneF]

《 angry voice so me pointing at an accident and saying "what is this?" has helped him to learn that doing it in the house is not acceptable.》

This is not a good idea I'm afraid. First the dog doesn't feel guilt so being angry won't help. More seriously your dog may associate your anger with toileting and may avoid you when he wants to toilet. This is the opposite of what you want! OP, either persevere with the crate or set your alarm for a toilet trip during the night.

 

[stashers]

《 angry voice so me pointing at an accident and saying "what is this?" has helped him to learn that doing it in the house is not acceptable.》

This is not a good idea I'm afraid. First the dog doesn't feel guilt so being angry won't help. More seriously your dog may associate your anger with toileting and may avoid you when he wants to toilet. This is the opposite of what you want! OP, either persevere with the crate or set your alarm for a toilet trip during the night.

I respectfully disagree. A dog will not feel guilt perhaps, but a dog can be taught right from wrong. My parents dog knew what it was allowed to chew and what it wasn't allowed to chew. Sometimes you'd come in the house and the dog would look suspiciously guilty, and you would unsurprisingly find a chewed shoe or wire etc. Telling him off for it didn't stop him from chewing the toys he was allowed to chew, it stopped him shewing things that weren't his.

Negative reinforcements can be just as useful as positive reinforcements. I'm not talking about hitting your pets or abusing them in any way, but letting them know that you aren't happy about their behaviour can help guide them forward in my opinion.

 

[gypsysmum2]

Chastising after the event is no use whatsoever. Dogs do not understand the English language and so cannot know what we are talking about. They fully understand, however, that we are angry or upset. They will make an association. That association may be the one you want them to make but it may not. As has been said above chastising a dog for toileting hours after the deed can cause the dog to avoid being around people and wees and poops. This makes them hold on until they are alone when they will feel it is safe to "go". This may be at night or when we are out or even in another room to us. If we are lucky it will be outside.

By far the best way to toilet train is to reward the right behaviour. The dog then has an incentive to get it right. They feel the need to toilet and then remember the reward that is on offer in the garden for toileting there. They will hold on in order to get that reward.

Timing is everything. The dog must realise that the reward is for the actual toilet and not for coming towards us. In order for this to work we must be there, close by, in order for the reward to be given immediately the dog toilets. Lots of praise and a fantastic treat.

A dog toilet trained on paper, or puppy pads, will struggle to learn to go outside, as it thinks it is "ok" to go inside, and so will take longer. A dog that has been chastised after the event will have anxieties and so struggle to learn to go outside too. Anxiety prevents learning.

I would continue to crate at night while you go back to basics with reward based house training as though you have a brand new puppy. I have re trained nine year old dogs using this method so age is no barrier.

 

[lurcherman]

I tell my dog off at the point of it being in the wrong but never never tell it off if you didn't see what it did , I'm hard but very fair with my dogs and it's worked for me, sometimes softly softly approach dosnt work with some dogs.

 

[madspringers]

Thanks so much for the replies. Will continue to crate and get back to basics with her! Fingers crossed!

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