Nnwrf Racing Manager

[weathergirls]

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Grahan Pem has agreed to take on the position as NNWRF RACING MANAGER, the rest of the committee would like to wish him well in this difficult role, I am sure he will do a good job, Graham has a wealth of experience in bend racing being involved with the greyhound racing. We have yet to select someone else to work alongside Graham on this.

It is hoped that all our members will will agree and accept that this is not a witch hunt on anyone but an attempt to make for safer ,cleaner racing for all dogs, it isn,t going to stop all bumps and mishaps in racing as in a handicapped race a dog will not allways be drawn to the side it prefers,but hopefully it will eliminate the ones that didn't need to happen.

This will apply on both bend and straight racing the NNWRF committee will be inviting the BWRA committee to discuss this issue as maybe this is something that can be favourable to the sport as a whole with maybe the other person to work with Graham coming from the BWRA committee anyway we will see,

You will all be kept fully updated with the progress and it is hoped you will all be prepared to give Graham your support in this thankless task

(he's bogged down studying pics and DVD's of past racing now sorry Mandy you won't be going out for that meal for a while :- " )

 

[rob67]

Grahan Pem has agreed to take on the position as NNWRF RACING MANAGER, the rest of the committee would like to wish him well in this difficult role, I am sure he will do  a good job,  Graham has a wealth  of experience in bend racing being involved with the greyhound racing. We have yet to select someone else to work alongside Graham on this.  It is hoped that all our members will will agree and accept that this is not a witch hunt on anyone but an attempt to make for safer ,cleaner racing for all dogs, it isn,t going to stop all bumps and mishaps in racing as in a handicapped race a dog will not allways be drawn to the side it prefers,but hopefully it will eliminate the ones that didn't need to happen.

      This will apply on both bend and straight racing the NNWRF committee will be inviting the BWRA committee to discuss this issue as maybe this is something that can be favourable to the sport as a whole with maybe the other person to work with Graham coming from the BWRA committee anyway we will see,

  You will all be kept fully updated with the progress  and it is hoped you will all be prepared to give Graham your support in this thankless task

(he's bogged down studying pics and DVD's of past racing now sorry Mandy you won't be going out for that meal for a while :- " )

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And will graham be travelling round the country to see dogs that dont run at opens he attends or that there are dvds and pics for?? How will that work?

 

[rob67]

Just another quick query............what protocols are in place if you dont agree with the seeding? Who is going to mediate? How do you get to know what the racing manager thinks your dog should be seeded as? When will it become effective from and how will it be monitored? If this is to be for the bends and straights, who will be seeding the straights as graham has experience of the bends, not sure if you meant he will do both?Presumably the BWRA would have to use a far more democratic way of proposing this, considering their constitution? Thank god.

 

[sherry]

yes im wondering is graham coming to dawdon on sat wallsend next sat/dawdon on the sun etc etc without having a dog to race? this is just my opinion but i think u will have people scared to seed their dogs now for fear of being told they r seeded wrong and im talking about the STRAIGHTS here 4 instance u might have a left hand runner and a severe left hand runner as was the case in my race @ maltby so il ask about this again ok nikki whizz favours the left hand side so i seed her left as if she was say out the orange she wud go left, so she got the red box and she stayed straight, now on the ball was having his 1st open straight race and he WASNT seeded and got the blue jacket i think i cant honestly remember anyway nikki whzz stayed in a total straight line from the red box but on the ball went left of her but as i said wasnt seeded so wud i b told nikki whizz did not need seeded as a dog went to her left but she stayed STRAIGHT?

 

[rob67]

Just a couple more queries...................at what stage will the racing manager decide that a dogs seeding might require changing? Not sure, but i would have thought that dogs can change their behaviours and possibly require a different seeding. If this happens, how many times can this happen before changes are made?

If graham isnt at an open, who will be responsible for determining whether a dog ran with it's seeding or caused an infringement, and what will be the "sanctions" for contravening these seedings? How will we get to know them, other than K9 because thats not available to everyone.

What are the thoughts on how long a dog should race before it is seeded? Can pups be seeded.....only curious as like i said the seeding is new to me and we took advice from whippeteers and greyhound blokes when seeding Ty, so I'm not that experienced.

Will a dogs seeding on the bends be the same as the straights? Does it work that way?

Perhaps the BWRA should remain as they stand and then that would serve as a baseline from which to assess the usefulness of the changes in the Fed?

How will we know if the changes made have been effective.............what are we hoping for?

chris

 

[rob67]

lets have a bit of common sense No Graham won't be travelling all over the country watching dogs race  at clubs and opens (unless he wants to of course) and no one is going to be putting the fear of god into anyone. To start with Graham is going to oversee the seeding and racing at NNWRF events  he will discuss with the owner if the need arises his opinion of that dogs seeding  if  the need arises he will re-seed  a dog    I believe the majority of racers do seed their dogs correctly but there are a few that will seed on the straight just to get on the outside of the pack and more often than not that dog will go across impeding other dogs in the race its not deliberate interference on that dogs part but it has spoilt the race for another uneccessarily

This debate isn't a new gripe people have got its been moaned and groaned about  since seeding was adopted we and I would think others who organise open events are allways receiving complaints as to why was that dog allowed to seed when it runs the other side  so we have decided on  trying it this way it may make a difference who knows,  maybe the answer is do away with seeding  luck of the draw it would certainly make life easier for the handicapper

                                Lets give him a chance

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I dont think it's lacking in common sense to ask about how this will work. If the racing manager doesnt get to see the dogs race then how can he make an informed decision, if relying on others feedback then that isnt appropriate in my eyes. It's not about giving graham a chance (have already Pm'd him and wished him good luck and explained my comments) it's about asking for factual information about how the fed will make this work, I think curiosity is a good thing.

 

[sherry]

i know wot u r saying as i know some people do seed their dogs to keep out of trouble etc. we used to seed crackin whizz coz she used to go right then she stopped so we stopped seeding her, same as i wud with any of my dogs. i think its gonna b a huge job 4 graeme 2 do and maybe u r right do away with seeding but there wud prob b hell on

 

[sherry]

does anyone know when seeding was inroduced? its been that way since i started racing 13 years ago just really really curious now as 2 when, how and who introduced it?

 

[Tony Taylor]

I think the NNWRF ought to be congratulated for at least trying to make a difference. The NNWRF is clearly a progressive organisation and that can't be easy in whippet racing.

Graham is a great choice. I've always found him to be decent staraight talking person. I wish him well and he desreves a fair crack of the whip in this post.

My view is that there's only a very small number of dogs every year that persistantly abuse the seeding principle to the detriment of other dogs in the race and they're obvious to everyone. I don't see that he automaticaly has to check and approve every single seeding request based on personaly witnessing a dog running over several events he just needs to police those that can't act responsibily of their own choice.

Hopefully the simple fact that there is a racing manager keeping an eye open will clean up the seeding problem to a greater degree.

 

[rob67]

I think the NNWRF ought to be congratulated for at least trying to make a difference. The NNWRF is clearly a progressive organisation and that can't be easy in whippet racing.
Graham is a great choice. I've always found him to be decent staraight talking person. I wish him well and he desreves a fair crack of the whip in this post.

My view is that there's only a very small number of dogs every year that persistantly abuse the seeding principle to the detriment of other dogs in the race and they're obvious to everyone. I don't see that he automaticaly has to check and approve every single seeding request based on personaly witnessing a dog running over several events he just needs to police those that can't act responsibily of their own choice.

Hopefully the simple fact that there is a racing manager keeping an eye open will clean up the seeding problem to a greater degree.

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If he doesnt witness all dogs racing with a seeding then how can he make a decision. If those people seeding innapropriately are identified to him then surely he will have to see the dog run how else can he make a decision? Unless it is to be decided upon by outsider witness, and then the racing manager becomes a puppet. I'm all for change but that has to be backed by sensible regulations and impartiality. If those "small number of dogs" are already known, then who identified them?

I have no prob congratulating the fed committee on a good job when the process for doing this has been explained. My concern is not with the person but the process.

chris

 

[rob67]

The NNWRF is clearly a progressive organisation and that can't be easy in whippet racing.

Progressive in it's own way, and thats fine...........but it's dangerous to think that it's the only way to be progressive.

 

[Tony Taylor]

I think the NNWRF ought to be congratulated for at least trying to make a difference. The NNWRF is clearly a progressive organisation and that can't be easy in whippet racing.
Graham is a great choice. I've always found him to be decent staraight talking person. I wish him well and he desreves a fair crack of the whip in this post.

My view is that there's only a very small number of dogs every year that persistantly abuse the seeding principle to the detriment of other dogs in the race and they're obvious to everyone. I don't see that he automaticaly has to check and approve every single seeding request based on personaly witnessing a dog running over several events he just needs to police those that can't act responsibily of their own choice.

Hopefully the simple fact that there is a racing manager keeping an eye open will clean up the seeding problem to a greater degree.

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If he doesnt witness all dogs racing with a seeding then how can he make a decision. If those people seeding innapropriately are identified to him then surely he will have to see the dog run how else can he make a decision? Unless it is to be decided upon by outsider witness, and then the racing manager becomes a puppet. I'm all for change but that has to be backed by sensible regulations and impartiality. If those "small number of dogs" are already known, then who identified them?

I have no prob congratulating the fed committee on a good job when the process for doing this has been explained. My concern is not with the person but the process.

chris

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Judges and juries in the law courts don't need to witness a crime to make a decision on whether it occurred or what action is appropiate.

I would think that if Graham has DVD, photo evidence, submissions from line judges, clerk of the course, other committee members and any number of other racers he could on balance of probabilities be expected to come to decision that any reasonable person would consider to be the correct one in the circumstances.

 

[rob67]

I think the NNWRF ought to be congratulated for at least trying to make a difference. The NNWRF is clearly a progressive organisation and that can't be easy in whippet racing.
Graham is a great choice. I've always found him to be decent staraight talking person. I wish him well and he desreves a fair crack of the whip in this post.

My view is that there's only a very small number of dogs every year that persistantly abuse the seeding principle to the detriment of other dogs in the race and they're obvious to everyone. I don't see that he automaticaly has to check and approve every single seeding request based on personaly witnessing a dog running over several events he just needs to police those that can't act responsibily of their own choice.

Hopefully the simple fact that there is a racing manager keeping an eye open will clean up the seeding problem to a greater degree.

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​

If he doesnt witness all dogs racing with a seeding then how can he make a decision. If those people seeding innapropriately are identified to him then surely he will have to see the dog run how else can he make a decision? Unless it is to be decided upon by outsider witness, and then the racing manager becomes a puppet. I'm all for change but that has to be backed by sensible regulations and impartiality. If those "small number of dogs" are already known, then who identified them?

I have no prob congratulating the fed committee on a good job when the process for doing this has been explained. My concern is not with the person but the process.

chris

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Judges and juries in the law courts don't need to witness a crime to make a decision on whether it occurred or what action is appropiate.

I would think that if Graham has DVD, photo evidence, submissions from line judges, clerk of the course, other committee members and any number of other racers he could on balance of probabilities be expected to come to decision that any reasonable person would consider to be the correct one in the circumstances.

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Not talking about law and crime Tony just seeding with the dogs. In order to move from seeding your own dogs to having someone else seed them I think deserves a well thought out pathway, I'm not sure how this might work and i'm curious as to how the committee will try and see this through. Seems like you might have a huge range of opinions from all those people you mentioned, not sure how you would collate them all? And whose would take precedent.............the person with the most experience, loudest voice..........who decides?

Nothing against fed committee (before that gets thrown in( I'm just curious about how you can make it work? And if people disagree then how does that work..............or is it that if you are seeded then there is no discussion and disagreement but you live with it? If that's the case then i dont think thats progressive.

chris

 

[marielou]

I havent participated in the seeded debate up to now for the very good reason that I am the first to admit that I am totally ignorant on the subject, I dont seed my dog as he seems to run straight and no one has ever suggested I should but I do want to comment on this latest development.

I do think it is either a very brave act on the part of Graham and the committee to take this on or a very short sighted one all be it for laudable reasons. As a non democratic organisation imposing this on racers I can forsee all sorts of problems that can arise.

For example:-

Owner A seeds his dog a particular way and has done for an extensive period of time but it has been widely held opinion that it doesnt need seeding. After careful consideration our new race manager speaks to owner A and says he doesnt think his dog should be seeded. Owner A disagrees. Presumeably at this point the committee will back Graham up and so will cease to seed the dog. Now comes the problem what happens if after that there is an accident involving owner A's dog.

I have seen first hand just how passionate we all are about our dogs and racing. I am the first person to say that I am a very placid reasonable person but even I wonder just who I would be ripping into if it was my dog lying on the track having been taken out by owners A's now unseeded dog. Would it be the owner who will say I knew this would happen when they wouldnt let me seed or the race manager who made the decision or the committee who imposed it?

It might be an accident totally unrelated to the seeding issue but each race is different in the eyes of everyone who sees it.

As I say brave or short sighted......time will tell I suppose and I will continue to pray that everyone owners and dogs stay safe and well.

 

[Tony Taylor]

In order to move from seeding your own dogs to having someone else seed them I think deserves a well thought out pathway, I'm not sure how this might work and i'm curious as to how the committee will try and see this through. Seems like you might have a huge range of opinions from all those people you mentioned, not sure how you would collate them all? And whose would take precedent.............the person with the most experience, loudest voice..........who decides? Nothing against fed committee (before that gets thrown in( I'm just curious about how you can make it work? And if people disagree then how does that work..............or is it that if you are seeded then there is no discussion and disagreement but you live with it? If that's the case then i dont think thats progressive.

chris

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I was under the impression that owners would still make the intial decision on where and if their dog should be seeded and the racing manager would simply act to over rule those who were seeding inappropiatly.

I don't see the installation of a racing manager as a move away from seeding your own dogs to having someone else seed them but simply stopping the small percentage of owners from abusing the system as at stands at present.

 

[rob67]

In order to move from seeding your own dogs to having someone else seed them I think deserves a well thought out pathway, I'm not sure how this might work and i'm curious as to how the committee will try and see this through. Seems like you might have a huge range of opinions from all those people you mentioned, not sure how you would collate them all? And whose would take precedent.............the person with the most experience, loudest voice..........who decides? Nothing against fed committee (before that gets thrown in( I'm just curious about how you can make it work? And if people disagree then how does that work..............or is it that if you are seeded then there is no discussion and disagreement but you live with it? If that's the case then i dont think thats progressive.

chris

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I was under the impression that owners would still make the intial decision on where and if their dog should be seeded and the racing manager would simply act to over rule those who were seeding inappropiatly.

I don't see the installation of a racing manager as a move away from seeding your own dogs to having someone else seed them but simply stopping the small percentage of owners from abusing the system as at stands at present.

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Thanks Tony, thats all I'm asking for, some info as to how the process will be mangaged, not to put it down.

 

[rob67]

Just a couple more queries...................at what stage will the racing manager decide that a dogs seeding might require changing? Not sure, but i would have thought that dogs can change their behaviours and possibly require a different seeding. If this happens, how many times can this happen before changes are made?
allready said  nothing is going to change overnight Graham and another will be looking at it. young dogs changing their behaviours and sides comes down to inexperience maybe some of these shouldn't be seeded until they have found their own line as they can learn how to get through from any position these are all points that will be taken into account  you will all be fully informed before any changes are proposed  at a members meeting where Graham can put forward his findings  and  suggestions on it

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If graham isnt at an open, who will be responsible for determining whether a dog ran with it's seeding or caused an infringement, and what will be the "sanctions" for contravening these seedings? How will we get to know them, other than K9 because thats not available to everyone.

Graham has been a committee member for a couple of years now  and apart from his time in Ireland has been at most of our events . we are not out to sanction anyone  for contravening seedings  (you make us sound like the maffia) were hoping it won't be neccessary. If it improves things and is taken on board  with the approval of the members it will be written into the racing rules

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What are the thoughts on how long a dog should race before it is seeded? Can pups be seeded.....only curious as like i said the seeding is new to me and we took advice from whippeteers and greyhound blokes when seeding Ty, so I'm not that experienced.

this is were your clubs can play a big part  in educating pups to run true  IMO  I wouldn't seed a pup just because it ran to the left or right at the start of its training  they are creatures of habit and some of these can be improved on with a little time and patience. Before entering an open pups should have  had some experience and hopefully run true some will alter their preferance as they go on into yearlings and adults all these points will need to be considered As Ive allready said its no easy task

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Will a dogs seeding on the bends be the same as the straights? Does it work that way?

not in all cases

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Perhaps the BWRA should remain as they stand and then that would serve as a baseline from which to assess the usefulness of the changes in the Fed?

pehaps they should however  we would welcome their imput and suggestions

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How will we know if the changes made have been effective.............what are we hoping for?

clean, fair racing  and prevention of unecessary injuries

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chris

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h34r: h34r:

just to add these answers to your points are my own views any constructive views and suggestions from the members are allways welcomed by the NNWRF committee and are allways discussed when we get together

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Thanks Linda, replies appreciated. Mafia too strong a word...............more like the sopranos

 

[sherry]

SORRY PMSL @ THE FED MAFIA :lol: GLAD TO C THIS TOPIC IS HAVING INTERESING GOOD ANSWERS. I HAVE A SUGGESTION AS WELL AS HAVING A RACING MANAGER MAYBE U CUD APPOINT/ASK SOMEONE FROM EVERY REGION 2 TAKE ON THE JOB OF SEEDINGS ETC AND NO I DONT WANT THE JOB 4 THE NORTH EAST LOL BUT U MAY GET OTHERS WILLING TO HELP FROM EACH REGION THEN MAYBE THEY CUD HAVE A QUIET WORD WITH AN OWNER THEY THINK MAY HAVE SEEDED THEIR DOG WRONG THEN IF THAT DOESNT WORK REPORT TO GRAEME 2 WATCH SAID DOG THEN IF ITS STILL SEEDED WRONGLY GRAEME TO HAVE A WORD B4 ANY ACTION IS TAKEN. LIKE I SAID THOUGH U MAY HAVE PEOPLE TO AFRAID TO SEED THEIR DOGS NOW INCASE A DOG ENDS UP ON SAY I SEED MY DOG LEFT BUT A DOG ENDS UP ON THE LEFT OF HER WOT WILL HAPPEN THEN? ONLY ASKIN COZ I DONT KNOW WHETHER 2 SEED OR NOT NOW :blink:

 

[Paws123]

In order to move from seeding your own dogs to having someone else seed them I think deserves a well thought out pathway, I'm not sure how this might work and i'm curious as to how the committee will try and see this through. Seems like you might have a huge range of opinions from all those people you mentioned, not sure how you would collate them all? And whose would take precedent.............the person with the most experience, loudest voice..........who decides? Nothing against fed committee (before that gets thrown in( I'm just curious about how you can make it work? And if people disagree then how does that work..............or is it that if you are seeded then there is no discussion and disagreement but you live with it? If that's the case then i dont think thats progressive.

chris

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I was under the impression that owners would still make the intial decision on where and if their dog should be seeded and the racing manager would simply act to over rule those who were seeding inappropiatly.

I don't see the installation of a racing manager as a move away from seeding your own dogs to having someone else seed them but simply stopping the small percentage of owners from abusing the system as at stands at present.

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Exactly .. race your dogs as you normally do , nothings going to happen over night

No one going to be telling you what to do with your dogs... the race manger will be over seeing the nnwrf racing , if he think a dog has been seeding wrongly though what ever reason , he will be the one talking and hopefully advising the owner about what he witnesses ,As many have said there new to the game and sometimes appreciate a little help I am sure Grahame will be observing dogs more than once or twice before he makes any decisions ...

Talk about mountains and mole hills

 

[wild whippies]

I am the first person to say that I am a very placid reasonable person but even I wonder just who I would be ripping into if it was my dog lying on the track having been taken out by owners A's now unseeded dog.

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It works both ways though, how would you feel if your dog got smashed up by someone seeding their dog based on the owners opinions alone? Which is the current situation. What is the outcome when an accident happens - think what you will, but the owner saying ''sorry'' just won't cut it with me and I will be baying for blood, not just from the owners but the organisations that knew there was a problem yet failed to do anything about it.

Furthermore, I as a newcomer have always relied on others for feedback on my dogs performance, I do not consider anything said by those people as 'negative criticism', they're more experienced and more familiar with the sport and probably very familiar with recurrant problems that have occured over decades, not just over recent years.

and before anyone says it ''It's not broke so don't fix it'' or ''we've been doing this like this for years so why change''

Firstly, we did not have the technology to see, in detail what was occuring in a race- all people could see was 'bumping'

Secondly this technology can be used as documented hard evidence to owners of what is actually occuring, in their races, the owners may be suprisingly enlightened.

Finally, why all the aminosity?! All the NNWRF have done is recognised a problem and Graham has kindly nominated to be that person that discusses what the rest of you may be saying behind an owners back but chooses to do so in a well meaning face to face manner. Banning and over ruling decisions hasn't even come into the equation. So I don't know why people are jumping the gun here?

Another point, murmours at the Tyrone suggested a dog was tackling another however as the accused was slammed into by another dog, I think it's retaliation was understandable. Can you really trust your dog not to react to another hurting it? Honestly? :- "

How would you feel if your dog was then withdrawn for their reaction, especially when the whole incident could of been prevented?

I seen similar circumstances on Sunday, where folk was commenting on one dog tackling another and I know that this isn't strictly a true record of events.

We all want a safe, clean race, not just for your own dog but all the other dogs running with it. We can and do make errors and misjudgments about our dogs behaviour in given situations so surely it's good that someone is offering to be the brave person to stand up and tell you, you've made a mistake or do people just have issues with being told just that? :- "