Non Ped Health & Breeding

[jakers]

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As prompted by the list produced of bitches in pup on the other thread, I would be interested to know when breeding non peds how many folks health test? Is there a register of some sort so that Sires/dams are known? so that both good and bad lines are known? and adressing such elements of breeding eg: overused sires etc And is there a record kept of the health tests done and the outcomes for those dogs?

Obviously with the state of the dog world in general and the concern over health highly publicised by many organisations and researched in many arenas I wondered if the non peds have the key? Crossing two speperate lines/breeds has been at times promoted to produce a 'healthy dog', if you like I would be interested in the proof of such.

Thanks

Liz

 

[wild whippies]

Hi Jakers as promised a response to your concern.

Defects known are cryptorchidism (the same as in peds) I note that within pedigrees, breeding of such dogs is avoided yet the condition is still prevalent.

The other anamoly is the bully whippet caused by the pairing of 2 recessive genes that have a myostatin mutation. Dogs carrying one of the recessive genes are faster and their physical appearance does give a strong suspician of being a carrier. Even so dogs that line that carry the single gene will not produce a litter of puppies that all carry the defect because it is recessive and owners are selective in their breeding. Some UK non-peds participated in the myostatin research study (as it is hoped to be a means to cure muscular dystrophy and other muscle wasting conditions in humans)

Breeders can screen their dogs for this condition if they wish (see non-ped stud feature). Their is little evidence that the condition causes health problems but some have suggested a shortened life span compared to siblings because of the mutation possibly being effective on heart muscle. The anamoly is a complex one in that it appears variable in it's presentation physically and is pre-disposed to environmental factors, i.e. overfeeding which can result in the condition being exascerbated. If you wish to research this further I recommend reading Ostrander's research results and papers relating to belgian blue cattle who also have the anamoly.

Prevalence in the UK is small, I can count on one hand how many I've seen and most have been kept by the breeders because of their character and a concern for their future well being (myself included resulting from an accidental mating)

Dr Ostrander has subsequently been approached by myself asking if she would like further DNA samples from non-peds incase they choose to research the anamoly further.

There are (to my knowledge) no other known health problems. The simple reason for this is because of genetic diversity within the non-ped. Whilst an outsider may see the breed as small and therefore presume it would be riddled with problems, the fact is the non-ped whippet is commonly crossed to greyhounds (a breed that is documented as having the largest gene pool in pedigree dogs) because of the diversity introduced recessive defective genes on both sides of the breeds are paired with sound dominant ones. This is why we can breed close and produce dogs free from defects.

Furthermore, we do not attempt to breed clones (i.e. dogs similar in appearance) such breeding is detrimental to any animal and the pairing of recessive genes likely to result in a genetic defect. This is the reason pedigree (KC registered) dogs are all vulnerable to defects due to the closed stud books in operation. Further reading from The Dog and it's Genome should validate my statement. (by Dr Ostrander, Urs Giger and Kerstin Lindblad-Toh who researched the dog and it's genome)

There is another factor, that being a dog that is fit for purpose. Succesful dogs are bred others are not. These successes do not have to be racing titles either but can be relative to the dogs early pace, it's ability to run bend tracks, it's assertive character etc etc. All these things are considered and done trackside so I can understand again why outsiders can make presumptions.

Another presumption I think can be mistakenly made is that the dogs are plagued with injuries. However as non-peds have regular visits to expert vets, osteeopaths, physiotherapists and their owners constantly examining these dogs, every strain, bump, cut pad etc is classed as an injury where a regular pet owner would be completely oblivious to it. With regards to serious injuries / fractures, there is a few of us researching this but my own logs to date don't seem to reveal any commonality between breeding / age / track etc.

I hope this has been useful and I hope fellow non-ped racers are in general agreement and are not offended by me addressing this post, feel free to add your own observations. :thumbsup:

 

[marielou]

Hi Jakers as promised a response to your concern.

Defects known are cryptorchidism (the same as in peds) I note that within pedigrees, breeding of such dogs is avoided yet the condition is still prevalent.

The other anamoly is the bully whippet caused by the pairing of 2 recessive genes that have a myostatin mutation. Dogs carrying one of the recessive genes are faster and their physical appearance does give a strong suspician of being a carrier. Even so dogs that line that carry the single gene will not produce a litter of puppies that all carry the defect because it is recessive and owners are selective in their breeding. Some UK non-peds participated in the myostatin research study (as it is hoped to be a means to cure muscular dystrophy and other muscle wasting conditions in humans)

Breeders can screen their dogs for this condition if they wish (see non-ped stud feature). Their is little evidence that the condition causes health problems but some have suggested a shortened life span compared to siblings because of the mutation possibly being effective on heart muscle. The anamoly is a complex one in that it appears variable in it's presentation physically and is pre-disposed to environmental factors, i.e. overfeeding which can result in the condition being exascerbated. If you wish to research this further I recommend reading Ostrander's research results and papers relating to belgian blue cattle who also have the anamoly.

Prevalence in the UK is small, I can count on one hand how many I've seen and most have been kept by the breeders because of their character and a concern for their future well being (myself included resulting from an accidental mating)

Dr Ostrander has subsequently been approached by myself asking if she would like further DNA samples from non-peds incase they choose to research the anamoly further.

There are (to my knowledge) no other known health problems. The simple reason for this is because of genetic diversity within the non-ped. Whilst an outsider may see the breed as small and therefore presume it would be riddled with problems, the fact is the non-ped whippet is commonly crossed to greyhounds (a breed that is documented as having the largest gene pool in pedigree dogs) because of the diversity introduced recessive defective genes on both sides of the breeds are paired with sound dominant ones. This is why we can breed close and produce dogs free from defects.

Furthermore, we do not attempt to breed clones (i.e. dogs similar in appearance) such breeding is detrimental to any animal and the pairing of recessive genes likely to result in a genetic defect. This is the reason pedigree (KC registered) dogs are all vulnerable to defects due to the closed stud books in operation. Further reading from The Dog and it's Genome should validate my statement. (by Dr Ostrander, Urs Giger and Kerstin Lindblad-Toh who researched the dog and it's genome)

There is another factor, that being a dog that is fit for purpose. Succesful dogs are bred others are not. These successes do not have to be racing titles either but can be relative to the dogs early pace, it's ability to run bend tracks, it's assertive character etc etc. All these things are considered and done trackside so I can understand again why outsiders can make presumptions.

Another presumption I think can be mistakenly made is that the dogs are plagued with injuries. However as non-peds have regular visits to expert vets, osteeopaths, physiotherapists and their owners constantly examining these dogs, every strain, bump, cut pad etc is classed as an injury where a regular pet owner would be completely oblivious to it. With regards to serious injuries / fractures, there is a few of us researching this but my own logs to date don't seem to reveal any commonality between breeding / age / track etc.

I hope this has been useful and I hope fellow non-ped racers are in general agreement and are not offended by me addressing this post, feel free to add your own observations. :thumbsup:

I think thats covered everything Jacs

 

[milly]

Hi Jakers as promised a response to your concern.

Defects known are cryptorchidism (the same as in peds) I note that within pedigrees, breeding of such dogs is avoided yet the condition is still prevalent.

The other anamoly is the bully whippet caused by the pairing of 2 recessive genes that have a myostatin mutation. Dogs carrying one of the recessive genes are faster and their physical appearance does give a strong suspician of being a carrier. Even so dogs that line that carry the single gene will not produce a litter of puppies that all carry the defect because it is recessive and owners are selective in their breeding. Some UK non-peds participated in the myostatin research study (as it is hoped to be a means to cure muscular dystrophy and other muscle wasting conditions in humans)

Breeders can screen their dogs for this condition if they wish (see non-ped stud feature). Their is little evidence that the condition causes health problems but some have suggested a shortened life span compared to siblings because of the mutation possibly being effective on heart muscle. The anamoly is a complex one in that it appears variable in it's presentation physically and is pre-disposed to environmental factors, i.e. overfeeding which can result in the condition being exascerbated. If you wish to research this further I recommend reading Ostrander's research results and papers relating to belgian blue cattle who also have the anamoly.

Prevalence in the UK is small, I can count on one hand how many I've seen and most have been kept by the breeders because of their character and a concern for their future well being (myself included resulting from an accidental mating)

Dr Ostrander has subsequently been approached by myself asking if she would like further DNA samples from non-peds incase they choose to research the anamoly further.

There are (to my knowledge) no other known health problems. The simple reason for this is because of genetic diversity within the non-ped. Whilst an outsider may see the breed as small and therefore presume it would be riddled with problems, the fact is the non-ped whippet is commonly crossed to greyhounds (a breed that is documented as having the largest gene pool in pedigree dogs) because of the diversity introduced recessive defective genes on both sides of the breeds are paired with sound dominant ones. This is why we can breed close and produce dogs free from defects.

Furthermore, we do not attempt to breed clones (i.e. dogs similar in appearance) such breeding is detrimental to any animal and the pairing of recessive genes likely to result in a genetic defect. This is the reason pedigree (KC registered) dogs are all vulnerable to defects due to the closed stud books in operation. Further reading from The Dog and it's Genome should validate my statement. (by Dr Ostrander, Urs Giger and Kerstin Lindblad-Toh who researched the dog and it's genome)

There is another factor, that being a dog that is fit for purpose. Succesful dogs are bred others are not. These successes do not have to be racing titles either but can be relative to the dogs early pace, it's ability to run bend tracks, it's assertive character etc etc. All these things are considered and done trackside so I can understand again why outsiders can make presumptions.

Another presumption I think can be mistakenly made is that the dogs are plagued with injuries. However as non-peds have regular visits to expert vets, osteeopaths, physiotherapists and their owners constantly examining these dogs, every strain, bump, cut pad etc is classed as an injury where a regular pet owner would be completely oblivious to it. With regards to serious injuries / fractures, there is a few of us researching this but my own logs to date don't seem to reveal any commonality between breeding / age / track etc.

I hope this has been useful and I hope fellow non-ped racers are in general agreement and are not offended by me addressing this post, feel free to add your own observations. :thumbsup:

Couldn't have put it better myself Jac's :thumbsup: :lol:

 

[friggsy]

Hi Jakers as promised a response to your concern.

Defects known are cryptorchidism (the same as in peds) I note that within pedigrees, breeding of such dogs is avoided yet the condition is still prevalent.

The other anamoly is the bully whippet caused by the pairing of 2 recessive genes that have a myostatin mutation. Dogs carrying one of the recessive genes are faster and their physical appearance does give a strong suspician of being a carrier. Even so dogs that line that carry the single gene will not produce a litter of puppies that all carry the defect because it is recessive and owners are selective in their breeding. Some UK non-peds participated in the myostatin research study (as it is hoped to be a means to cure muscular dystrophy and other muscle wasting conditions in humans)

Breeders can screen their dogs for this condition if they wish (see non-ped stud feature). Their is little evidence that the condition causes health problems but some have suggested a shortened life span compared to siblings because of the mutation possibly being effective on heart muscle. The anamoly is a complex one in that it appears variable in it's presentation physically and is pre-disposed to environmental factors, i.e. overfeeding which can result in the condition being exascerbated. If you wish to research this further I recommend reading Ostrander's research results and papers relating to belgian blue cattle who also have the anamoly.

Prevalence in the UK is small, I can count on one hand how many I've seen and most have been kept by the breeders because of their character and a concern for their future well being (myself included resulting from an accidental mating)

Dr Ostrander has subsequently been approached by myself asking if she would like further DNA samples from non-peds incase they choose to research the anamoly further.

There are (to my knowledge) no other known health problems. The simple reason for this is because of genetic diversity within the non-ped. Whilst an outsider may see the breed as small and therefore presume it would be riddled with problems, the fact is the non-ped whippet is commonly crossed to greyhounds (a breed that is documented as having the largest gene pool in pedigree dogs) because of the diversity introduced recessive defective genes on both sides of the breeds are paired with sound dominant ones. This is why we can breed close and produce dogs free from defects.

Furthermore, we do not attempt to breed clones (i.e. dogs similar in appearance) such breeding is detrimental to any animal and the pairing of recessive genes likely to result in a genetic defect. This is the reason pedigree (KC registered) dogs are all vulnerable to defects due to the closed stud books in operation. Further reading from The Dog and it's Genome should validate my statement. (by Dr Ostrander, Urs Giger and Kerstin Lindblad-Toh who researched the dog and it's genome)

There is another factor, that being a dog that is fit for purpose. Succesful dogs are bred others are not. These successes do not have to be racing titles either but can be relative to the dogs early pace, it's ability to run bend tracks, it's assertive character etc etc. All these things are considered and done trackside so I can understand again why outsiders can make presumptions.

Another presumption I think can be mistakenly made is that the dogs are plagued with injuries. However as non-peds have regular visits to expert vets, osteeopaths, physiotherapists and their owners constantly examining these dogs, every strain, bump, cut pad etc is classed as an injury where a regular pet owner would be completely oblivious to it. With regards to serious injuries / fractures, there is a few of us researching this but my own logs to date don't seem to reveal any commonality between breeding / age / track etc.

I hope this has been useful and I hope fellow non-ped racers are in general agreement and are not offended by me addressing this post, feel free to add your own observations. :thumbsup:

WELL DONE JAC :thumbsup:

 

[tinarpoole]

BRILLIANT REPLY JAQUI IN LAYMANS TERMS THAT EVEN I CAN UNDERSTAND .CONGRATULATIONS YOUR OUR PICK FOR MASTERMIND LOL

 

[rodders]

What would we do without you Jac :thumbsup:

 

[jakers]

Hi Jakers as promised a response to your concern.

Defects known are cryptorchidism (the same as in peds) I note that within pedigrees, breeding of such dogs is avoided yet the condition is still prevalent.

The other anamoly is the bully whippet caused by the pairing of 2 recessive genes that have a myostatin mutation. Dogs carrying one of the recessive genes are faster and their physical appearance does give a strong suspician of being a carrier. Even so dogs that line that carry the single gene will not produce a litter of puppies that all carry the defect because it is recessive and owners are selective in their breeding. Some UK non-peds participated in the myostatin research study (as it is hoped to be a means to cure muscular dystrophy and other muscle wasting conditions in humans)

Breeders can screen their dogs for this condition if they wish (see non-ped stud feature). Their is little evidence that the condition causes health problems but some have suggested a shortened life span compared to siblings because of the mutation possibly being effective on heart muscle. The anamoly is a complex one in that it appears variable in it's presentation physically and is pre-disposed to environmental factors, i.e. overfeeding which can result in the condition being exascerbated. If you wish to research this further I recommend reading Ostrander's research results and papers relating to belgian blue cattle who also have the anamoly.

Prevalence in the UK is small, I can count on one hand how many I've seen and most have been kept by the breeders because of their character and a concern for their future well being (myself included resulting from an accidental mating)

Dr Ostrander has subsequently been approached by myself asking if she would like further DNA samples from non-peds incase they choose to research the anamoly further.

There are (to my knowledge) no other known health problems. The simple reason for this is because of genetic diversity within the non-ped. Whilst an outsider may see the breed as small and therefore presume it would be riddled with problems, the fact is the non-ped whippet is commonly crossed to greyhounds (a breed that is documented as having the largest gene pool in pedigree dogs) because of the diversity introduced recessive defective genes on both sides of the breeds are paired with sound dominant ones. This is why we can breed close and produce dogs free from defects.

Furthermore, we do not attempt to breed clones (i.e. dogs similar in appearance) such breeding is detrimental to any animal and the pairing of recessive genes likely to result in a genetic defect. This is the reason pedigree (KC registered) dogs are all vulnerable to defects due to the closed stud books in operation. Further reading from The Dog and it's Genome should validate my statement. (by Dr Ostrander, Urs Giger and Kerstin Lindblad-Toh who researched the dog and it's genome)

There is another factor, that being a dog that is fit for purpose. Succesful dogs are bred others are not. These successes do not have to be racing titles either but can be relative to the dogs early pace, it's ability to run bend tracks, it's assertive character etc etc. All these things are considered and done trackside so I can understand again why outsiders can make presumptions.

Another presumption I think can be mistakenly made is that the dogs are plagued with injuries. However as non-peds have regular visits to expert vets, osteeopaths, physiotherapists and their owners constantly examining these dogs, every strain, bump, cut pad etc is classed as an injury where a regular pet owner would be completely oblivious to it. With regards to serious injuries / fractures, there is a few of us researching this but my own logs to date don't seem to reveal any commonality between breeding / age / track etc.

I hope this has been useful and I hope fellow non-ped racers are in general agreement and are not offended by me addressing this post, feel free to add your own observations. :thumbsup:

Thanks for this, makes very interesting reading :thumbsup: , do you have any information on heart testing in particular as, I believe that irregular heart beats, enlarged hearts etc are often mis diagnosed as a 'problem', I have found that there is no where near enough research into ped ( whippets particularly ) running breeds and so much of the information that is available is quite misinformed. Also the auto immune issue can be a very real problem in the ped side of things does this carry through to non peds as far as you are aware?? I have had a heart test on one of mine but have found information about the whippet heart not recorded anywhere, unless on a voluntary basis by individuals and that such things are not publically know about of particular male or female dog.

For the record I have not posted to 'get at anyone' or for justification of your practices in your sport, I posted out of interest of how the non ped side of things work in an attempt to understand why/how breeding practices are carried out and how health in particular is a 'factor' in that process. I have found information about ped whippets in particular woofully inadequate and am interested in whether the statement made in last years much documented TV programme about increasing the gene pool by crossing lines would produce a 'healthier dog' where better to start than in a non ped setting, where the crossing of lines/breeds does exactly that.

As I say thanks for the informed response and look forward to yours and other responses

Liz aka Jakers

 

[Tony Taylor]

Thanks for this, makes very interesting reading :thumbsup: , do you have any information on heart testing in particular as, I believe that irregular heart beats, enlarged hearts etc are often mis diagnosed as a 'problem', I have found that there is no where near enough research into ped ( whippets particularly ) running breeds and so much of the information that is available is quite misinformed. Also the auto immune issue can be a very real problem in the ped side of things does this carry through to non peds as far as you are aware?? I have had a heart test on one of mine but have found information about the whippet heart not recorded anywhere, unless on a voluntary basis by individuals and that such things are not publically know about of particular male or female dog.
For the record I have not posted to 'get at anyone' or for justification of your practices in your sport, I posted out of interest of how the non ped side of things work in an attempt to understand why/how breeding practices are carried out and how health in particular is a 'factor' in that process. I have found information about ped whippets in particular woofully inadequate and am interested in whether the statement made in last years much documented TV programme about increasing the gene pool by crossing lines would produce a 'healthier dog' where better to start than in a non ped setting, where the crossing of lines/breeds does exactly that.

As I say thanks for the informed response and look forward to yours and other responses

Liz aka Jakers

The first (non ped) whippet I had was diagnosed with a "heart murmur" @ 1 yr old and were told of it was a serious problem. The dog went to see a dog cardiologist had X-rays etc and the diagnosis was a severe heart defect ( mitral valve incompetance) that would lead to premature death @ maybe 5yrs old. To cut along story short we had the old girl euthanased at just over 14 blind, deaf and arthritic on a quality of life basis after leading a full life hunting, whelping a couple of litters without any indications of heart failure at all. I've 2 of her offspring, ones 13, going blind, deaf, and was diagnosed with a heart murmur....., the others 11 and still very active.

I'd postulate a flexible heart valve is an advantage in a sprinting dog; Whilst it may allow regurgatation of blood that would normally lead to heart failure it also allows rapid transit of large volumes of blood during times of need. Valve incompetance leads to cardio myopathy in enlarged heart muscles leading to excessively high blood pressure - left side heart failure. However this particular pups X-ray showed an enlarged heart anyway - my view is that heart failure did'nt occur because the heart was already enlarged as a result of selective breeding - ie it could cope with regurgatation problem. there was no breeding design in this over and above that for purpose

 

[jakers]

The first (non ped) whippet I had was diagnosed with a "heart murmur" @ 1 yr old and were told of it was a serious problem. The dog went to see a dog cardiologist had X-rays etc and the diagnosis was a severe heart defect ( mitral valve incompetance) that would lead to premature death @ maybe 5yrs old. To cut along story short we had the old girl euthanased at just over 14 blind, deaf and arthritic on a quality of life basis after leading a full life hunting, whelping a couple of litters without any indications of heart failure at all. I've 2 of her offspring, ones 13, going blind, deaf, and was diagnosed with a heart murmur....., the others 11 and still very active.

I'd postulate a flexible heart valve is an advantage in a sprinting dog; Whilst it may allow regurgatation of blood that would normally lead to heart failure it also allows rapid transit of large volumes of blood during times of need. Valve incompetance leads to cardio myopathy in enlarged heart muscles leading to excessively high blood pressure - left side heart failure. However this particular pups X-ray showed an enlarged heart anyway - my view is that heart failure did'nt occur because the heart was already enlarged as a result of selective breeding - ie it could cope with regurgatation problem. there was no breeding design in this over and above that for purpose

Thanks for this, the mitral value issues are the same as thos found in cavs aren't they?? But from what I have picked up from my very limited research it doesn't appear to affect the whippet in the same way, or am I wrong? And that an enlarged heart in a running breed is actually a good thing or should i say not necessarily a bad thing eg: heart muscle pumping blood/oxegen round the body, the bigger more powerful the muscle the better the performance.??

Did the whole litter get heart tested? was it a hereditary problem? Did the sire have a heart test? My question is was there a link, did the heart (perceived) problem pass on? I'm interested as in other breeds eg: gsds (of which we also have in our lot!) the hip issues are not genetic, so technically high scoring parents could have low scoring children.

Just to reinterate as I know this is a difficult area to pick through specially when you are me :b , I am simply interested if what health implications/experiences people have had.

Liz

PS: I am also away over the weekend so will not be able to return to this till monday.

 

[wild whippies]

Taken from Ohio State university greyhound health and wellness program:

In our study, we found that the b1ood flow velocity in the aortic valve in the Greyhounds with murmurs was significantly higher than in the Greyhounds without murmurs. In conclusion, although a soft murmur is common in adult Greyhounds, it does not appear tDue to these peculiarities in the Greyhound, we frequently receive referrals or consults of Greyhounds suspected of having heart disease, when indeed these findings are normal breed-related idiosyncrasies. This should be taken into account to avoid misdiagnosis and unnecessary medication.o be associated with a congenital defect (e.; it is normal in sight hounds) or any CBC differences unique to this breed.

Rest of article here> http://www.ngap.org/greyhound-health-all-heart-y321.html

In response to the introduction of non-ped blood to pedigree whippets I would expect that any resolution that occured from this introduction of new blood would in effect be temporary as the situation would then recur once the stud books were closed again. How long the benefit would last would of course be entirely dependant on pedigree breeders breeding patterns.

Similar has happened in America with dogs being re-created as it were to have a similar appearance to the breed that has a defect but with the advantage of being free of genetic defect. Rather than welcome these new dogs into breeding programmes, they were shunned by many, including the American Kennel Club. Such is the almost self-destructive attitude that some breeders take at the prospect of new blood being introduced into their pure bred blue blooded KC registered dog that has a host of problems, it is to me a crying shame that people hold such strong beliefs.

I'm unaware of any auto-immune conditions. My own racer did have a skin problem that was initially suspected to be immune related as his sire was known to also have a skin condition, however I discovered this was diet related due to family members giving him inappropiate tit-bits and him being a thieving sod!

The situation quickly resolved when I got a handle on things and has never recurre since.

I have got 4 pedigree whippets as well (relatively diverse in breeding) the oldest has unfortunately been plagued with arthritis and seeing her alongside similar aged and older non-ped here, it's sad to see how fast she is deteriorating compared to them.

Oh we do get histiocytomas but apparently all sighthounds do. The one dog who ended up having theirs surgically removed (due to it looking like a mast cell tumour) was one of my peds. I don't think this is anything to do with him being a ped but more the fact the lesion was located on his hock and subject to pressure and trauma, preventing it resolving spontaneously.

Jaker's I didn't think you was challenging, more I wanted to substantiate my comments with proof as you requested and also to other readers interested in some of the issues discussed.

 

[hellbound]

Taken from Ohio State university greyhound health and wellness program:

In our study, we found that the b1ood flow velocity in the aortic valve in the Greyhounds with murmurs was significantly higher than in the Greyhounds without murmurs. In conclusion, although a soft murmur is common in adult Greyhounds, it does not appear tDue to these peculiarities in the Greyhound, we frequently receive referrals or consults of Greyhounds suspected of having heart disease, when indeed these findings are normal breed-related idiosyncrasies. This should be taken into account to avoid misdiagnosis and unnecessary medication.o be associated with a congenital defect (e.; it is normal in sight hounds) or any CBC differences unique to this breed.

Rest of article here> http://www.ngap.org/greyhound-health-all-heart-y321.html

In response to the introduction of non-ped blood to pedigree whippets I would expect that any resolution that occured from this introduction of new blood would in effect be temporary as the situation would then recur once the stud books were closed again. How long the benefit would last would of course be entirely dependant on pedigree breeders breeding patterns.

Similar has happened in America with dogs being re-created as it were to have a similar appearance to the breed that has a defect but with the advantage of being free of genetic defect. Rather than welcome these new dogs into breeding programmes, they were shunned by many, including the American Kennel Club. Such is the almost self-destructive attitude that some breeders take at the prospect of new blood being introduced into their pure bred blue blooded KC registered dog that has a host of problems, it is to me a crying shame that people hold such strong beliefs.

I'm unaware of any auto-immune conditions. My own racer did have a skin problem that was initially suspected to be immune related as his sire was known to also have a skin condition, however I discovered this was diet related due to family members giving him inappropiate tit-bits and him being a thieving sod!

The situation quickly resolved when I got a handle on things and has never recurre since.

I have got 4 pedigree whippets as well (relatively diverse in breeding) the oldest has unfortunately been plagued with arthritis and seeing her alongside similar aged and older non-ped here, it's sad to see how fast she is deteriorating compared to them.

Oh we do get histiocytomas but apparently all sighthounds do. The one dog who ended up having theirs surgically removed (due to it looking like a mast cell tumour) was one of my peds. I don't think this is anything to do with him being a ped but more the fact the lesion was located on his hock and subject to pressure and trauma, preventing it resolving spontaneously.

Jaker's I didn't think you was challenging, more I wanted to substantiate my comments with proof as you requested and also to other readers interested in some of the issues discussed.

was just going to post both your answers, but you type faster than me jac lol

 

[Karen-Coral]

Quote.....And that an enlarged heart in a running breed is actually a good thing or should i say not necessarily a bad thing eg: heart muscle pumping blood/oxegen round the body, the bigger more powerful the muscle the better the performance.??

No-Surely not :b

If it is correct ...........I'd be very interested/surprised-

I'll get Stevie booked in on the running track-Lol

Karen

 

[jakers]

Quote.....And that an enlarged heart in a running breed is actually a good thing or should i say not necessarily a bad thing eg: heart muscle pumping blood/oxegen round the body, the bigger more powerful the muscle the better the performance.??
No-Surely not :b

If it is correct ...........I'd be very interested/surprised-

I'll get Stevie booked in on the running track-Lol

Karen

Karen

I take it you are being sarcastic?

As I've already stated I am trying to gain information with regards heath and am interested in health and breeding especially after the much documented program of last year, non peds by the looks could hold the key by crossing lines, thus increasing the gene pool and ironing out certain conditions in some breeds. I do not suggest that what you quote of me above is accurate as I asked the question to see if this was actually the case.

I am working through the information already helpfully given by jacs and tony and am interested to know if anyone else has information with regards my orginal post.

Thanks in advance

Liz

 

[Towy]

"I'd postulate a flexible heart valve is an advantage in a sprinting dog; Whilst it may allow regurgatation of blood that would normally lead to heart failure it also allows rapid transit of large volumes of blood during times of need. Valve incompetance leads to cardio myopathy in enlarged heart muscles leading to excessively high blood pressure - left side heart failure."

 

This topic was mentioned in horse and hound couple of weeks ago in relation to race horses and also stated that basically it was an advantage if they had a certain type of heart murmour, which, should they be put forward for a normal vetting as a riding horse they would fail on. Will try and look the article up to give a better explanation

 

[wild whippies]

Cheers Towy. Apparently there is a condition in humans known as athletic heart syndrome, interestingly signs include a systolic ejection murmur....

Quote from Wikipedia:

Enlargement of the heart is a natural physical adaptation of the body to deal with the high pressures and large amounts of blood that can affect the heart during these periods of time

It's also reassuring to read that humans who have the condition show no adverse effect to the condition.

I wonder if a similar anamoly is evident in the whippet?

 

[Towy]

Taken from Horse and Hound as promised

Do heart murmurs really affect performance horses?

Should you risk buying a horse with a heart problem and what are the chances of a murmur being debilitating? Recent research has given some answers.

A study I carried out last year that was published in the Journal of Veterinary Internal Medicine concluded that race-fit thoroughbred horses with heart murmurs did not appear to perform any differently from those who were unaffected.

Hard evidence

As the results of this study showed no consistent associations between racing performance and the presence — or grade — of heart murmur, its authors concluded that unless the heart itself fails, there should be no adverse effects on performance.

Different murmurs

A murmur is a noise that can be heard with a stethoscope at a time when the heart should normally be silent, for example between the normal heart sounds.

Most healthy sport horses have a heart murmur of some sort and only occasionally will the murmur mean there is a serious heart problem. But just knowing that a horse has a murmur tells you nothing.

The vet must decide whether the problem is caused by normal blood flow or whether a heart valve might be leaking. If a leak is suspected, then the specific valve must be identified because some are more likely to cause problems than others.

The significance of valve regurgitation depends on its severity and the likelihood of valve function deteriorating and the leak worsening over time.

Modern technology

Specialised ultrasound equipment can be used to visualise normal and abnormal blood flow in the heart, allowing an accurate diagnosis of the source of the murmur to be made.

In the vast majority of horses, diagnosis of valvular regurgitation certainly does not mean the end of athletic activity and a significant proportion of affected horses are successfully sold on.

What are the implications?

Heart murmurs are very common in sport horses, as is poor performance. But, conversely, cardiac disease is a very uncommon cause of reduced performance.

When it is, however, it is almost always an abnormal cardiac rhythm that is to blame, not a murmur. So be careful that a horse with a cardiac murmur is not written off until you have all the relevant facts.