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Discussion in 'Puppy Forum' started by Hal, Dec 13, 2020.
How interesting - would never have thought of that, but it makes a lot of sense. Thanks
I agree with absolutely about The Happy Puppy book. My wife and I have both read it and made loads of highlights and get a lot out of it. I'm half way through Mattinson's other book 'Total Recall' and that is good as well.
I think you're a bit hard on the Monks though. Some of their training advice does seem out of date, but their description of how to look after a new litter is beautiful - really loving and careful and I've not read anything which is as detailed and thoughtful about general dog development stages.
Yes indeed . Ive judged them on old books when they used choked chains and let dogs run to the end of them .
There's a time and place for using a slip lead .... But not on a pup
Huskeys and sledge dogs are also taught and are helped to pull when using/wearing a harness.
I see so many dogs these days walking well in front of their owners, many are still pulling and leading the way. They appear to have no manners and are not easily controlled or corrected.
There are dogs and puppies that never pull, 3 of our lot are more than happy to walk just behind us when off lead but beside us with a lead on.
I would not use a slip lead on a young puppy but a normal flat collar and lead, this has more close control and is only as severe as the user wishes to make it.
I agree with the 180 degree turn, "without warning" as this keeps the puppy/dog watching and more focused to see where you are going next and not just going where he or she thinks they want to go.
When a slip lead is used, as an example you are teaching your dog to walk on your LHS a slip lead should be fitted correctly with the lead going from your hand over the top of the neck and the loop with ring in which the lead runs through should join the lead beneath the chin beside the dogs right ear. Therefore it always loosens when the tugging relaxes.
We always use slip leads when out working, they are easy to slip on and off as required. Otherwise a normal collar and lead in more public places.
Many roads to the same destination. This is not to say one way is right and others are wrong, but to explain.
The reason I am so vehement that slip leads should not be up by the dog's ears is that there is the potential for huge damage, or even a hangman's fracture if sudden pressure is exerted (and few people can resist tugging at the lead) plus underneath the trachea is cartilage with important blood vessels near the surface so there is risk of permanent damage there as well. Put your hands in a noose in the same place on your own throat and you'll feel what I mean. With a pup, bones are still only partly hardened, so even more reason to avoid the noose by the atlas/axis vertebrae.
It is easy and IME desirable to lead- train without this risk. I have taught gazillions of dogs to walk nicely on the lead while wearing a flat collar. Then when the dog knows how to walk and its bones have developed sufficiently if they are pups, I change to the slip lead. This sits relaxed, as I have said before, at the base of the neck down by the dog's shoulders. Zilch risk of damage. The slip lead is for my convenience, and if preferred a flat collar and clip lead, or the right kind of harness, is just as suitable for most dogs.
The main reason I do a lot of lead training isn't to get them walking perfect, but so I can train the stand still command. It's a command I probably use more than any other. Lead work is the only way to get them going with this.
As for getting them to walk perfectly on a lead I'm not that bothered really. Just so long as they aren't going mad I'm happy.
Nobody's mentioned the martingale style collar yet, what's people's thoughts on those?
Do you mean the head collar type (Halti). Excellent for a compulsive puller but for some reason I would never start a puppy on one, I would want to start with a conventional collar for starters.
No, a martingale collar is like this: Fleece Lined Martingale Dog Collar Superheroes Navy | Etsy So it's loose, but when the dog pulls it becomes tight enough not to come off, but still won't choke as it won't tighten further than a standard collar. I've never used them, but wonder if they're more likely to come off if you have a dog who twists, turns and lunges.
I use Martingales with Folly my Whippet, as JudyN says it normally sits loose but can be adjusted so it tightens up. I cant be sure about what would happen with a twister / puller, but I don't think it would be more liable to come off then a normal collar. With a long necked dog I find they are good, though with a 'normal' dog I tend to think they wouldn't be suitable.
I know loads of people who use martingale collars on there dogs. Mind you they are all lurcher link dogs, they don't have any problems with them. If my memory is correct weren't they designed to be used on sighthounds in the first place.
What are the advantages of a martingale collar over a standard flat collar? Is it that they're easily removed if necessary? Or can they be comfier for a sighthound than the traditional wide flat collar?
Aah haa, I have used this type of collar amongst loads of others designs and fabrics for donkeys years, (made by Ancol).
Not for a pulling dog though but just because they are a nice loose fit that tighten just enough so as not to slip over the head. Ancol don't call them "martingales" though, I have never seen them sold for a pulling dog .
They slip over the dogs head when they are slack. You adjust to fit your dog so when it's tight it fits like a flat collar so it won't come over the dogs head. When you are walking with a slack lead they slacken off,dog pulls the collar tightens up but not past what you've adjusted it to so it doesn't choke the dog.
Again though, what is the real advantage over a flat collar with a buckle? Jasper's collar is loose enough to be comfy (and could possibly be pulled off if angled right, though it doesn't happen accidentally), and if he pulls, he'll feel it put tension on his throat. So it seems to do the same thing, just be easier to put on and take off.
A lose fitting flat collar which will come over a sighthounds head can be backed out of if the dog puts the brakes on and pulls backwards. With a martingale type it will tighten to the right size to stop the dog doing this.
Yes the advantages are that they are designed for whippety type breeds whose head is narrow enough to slip through a properly fitted flat collar, that they close up if the dog pulls backwards or twists, but can't get any tighter than the flat part and therefore can't choke the dog. It is also supposed to spread the load of the collar when the dog pulls forward more evenly around the neck and not all on the delicate throat - though I'm sceptical about that.
The way I see it something that slips on and off over the dog's head is way easier to put on and take off than fiddling around with a buckle.
My dog has one, not that he pulls back or ever tries to slip out of it and was never on the lead anyway (until now that he is injured) but my question was, in view of peoples' objections to the slip/choke collar for pups, wouldn't a limited slip ie martingale type be ok?
My understanding of the Martingale is that it can be used to prevent dogs 'backing out' of their lead and can be useful and secure if used for this. It needs to be measured carefully however so that it is not choking the dog at full tension.
Unfortunately some people use it as a choke collar (ie get one slightly too small). Pros and cons of this lead/tool seem to depend heavily on how its measured and adjusted.