Open Plans

[Mark Roberts]

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I was having a conversation with a well known, well respected WCRA member today and during the conversation we talked of the plans that clubs hold 2 opens the same (IE : 2 straights/bends) would only get points for 1 of those opens.

they then let it slip that from next year the plan is to only allow a maximum of 2 opens a month (1 per club per year) ie: alternating between 1 week an open 1 week just club meetings to try and persuad racers back to club racing!.

I tried to get more details but they changed the subjecy and went very coy about it?

has anyone else heard anything about this and has anybody got views on this if they have.

 

[Judy]

No, haven't heard anything yet but they probably meant opens counting for Superstars points. They can't stop clubs from running opens.

Maybe all the clubs chose their first opens as Superstars opens this year so if your bitch is in season or your dog is injured, it will miss a lot of them. Restricting Superstars points to 2 opens a month might be a way to spread them out over the year which would be sensible.

Can't understand why it should be secret, though I would have thought it would have been a good idea to review what happens this year first before making decisions about next year.

 

[June Jonigk]

Sorry Judy - but we're fair weather racers!! I don't fancy running on frozen ground, or in lashing down rain.

In my opinion the old saying "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" fits - what's wrong with the way things are now? Why is the WCRA so worried all of a sudden? Club racing has survived for years, with members who do not have open class dogs, and are happy to race against club dogs. Why all of a sudden is club racing in danger? Oh well, what will be will be, but clubs will probably all still run two opens, I know at least 3 clubs that definitely will. All will count for Whippet News points, so why spoil the fun and take away Superstars?

 

[Paul Melia]

Why not get rid of the Cons at opens? Meetings would be shorter and dogs not good enough to get past the first round consistently would be more likely to be kept to club racing.

 

[Strike Whippets]

Thats a bit unfare on the dogs in the really decent weight groups ........

 

[Paul Melia]

How about in the bigger more competitive weight groups, having six dog finals?

 

[Strike Whippets]

Hmm !!! I won't run my dog in 5 dog races let alone 6 .............Most people if not all wouldn't go for that either........

 

[Robin Sweet]

Is club racing really in decline? I think I went to a dozen or so Andover club meetings in 2004, and there must have been fifty or more dogs at every meeting. The meetings in February,March,October and November had more dogs than some opens do.

There seemed to be more dogs than ever competing on the open circuit last year. There were more quarter finals at opens than I can remember in the eleven years I have been racing. There were 234 dogs racing at the first championships. The sport seems to be growing. Every dog that runs at an open has had to clear at an affiliated club and has to be a member of an affiliated club to get a passport sticker.

If the WCRA only allow opens on alternate weeks, then you would have to go to every open in order to compete in the superstars leagues. As Judy has pointed out, if you have a bitch in season or an injured dog, then you probably couldn't really compete for a top superstars place because you need to race at twelve opens to get a decent points tally. I think this could possibly result in some people running injured/unfit dogs at opens.

The most likely effect of these new rules though is that most people would just forget about superstars points and concentrate more on whippet news top ten.

Does anyone think that the WCRA would try and put pressure on clubs not to run extra opens, even though these would not be for superstars points?

Even if there were only opens on alternate weeks, would the people with open class dogs really want to to go club racing on the other weeks?

I think the sport has grown nicely in the last two or three years and I would like to see this trend continue. The last thing we should be doing is enforcing too many rules which could drive people out of the sport or deter new people from coming in to the sport. Like June said "if it ain't boke, don't fix it".

 

[Nigel]

If the WCRA want to limit Superstars events to every other week, or one per club per year it's up to them.

But, I don't think it's of any benefit to Whippet racing. Whippet racing want's and needs publicity. This is a strange idea :wacko:

It won't result in more club racing - it isn't in decline anway. Clubs will continue to run 2 opens and people will still go open racing.

It will devalue Superstars even more - it used to be a premier competition but due to lack of promotion recently it's declined significantly and will now decline even further. As Robin said, people will just ignore it.

The way to grow a sport is through promotion - let's start promoting it...

 

[Paul Melia]

Hmm !!! I won't run my dog in 5 dog races let alone 6 .............Most people if not all wouldn't go for that either........

What's wrong with five or six dog races?

 

[Judy]

Why not get rid of the Cons at opens? Meetings would be shorter and dogs not good enough to get past the first round consistently would be more likely to be kept to club racing.

The trouble with that is that if there was no consolation racing, then 50% of dogs would only get one run. Owners wouldn't be getting much value for their money would they? Also an awful lot of dogs that don't consistently get through the first round belong to the same people as the dogs that do, so their owners would still be going to opens rather than club racing.

Whats wrong with 5 or 6 dog races? - there is more crowding, more bumping and so it becomes more about luck than speed.

 

[June Jonigk]

Hi Paul

Most of us think 5 or 6 dog races are more likely to result in injuries especially in bend racing. A days racing can be completed in an afternoon, so there's no need to cut down on races by including more dogs in each race. It would mean a different format would be necessary, as only 2 of the 6 dogs would go through to main racing, and if you have the top 4 dogs in a group in one heat, two of the best dogs would go out.

I think most people are happy with racing as it is, and generally the WCRA are respected for what they've done in the last few years - but recent events are generating bad feeling, and could possibly cause the sort of situation we had a few years ago, when the committee were ridiculed and laughed at.

I think the committee are genuinely trying to improve racing, but are going about it in the wrong way. I believe one club has raised the problem of its members always being away at opens, and so this has grown out of all proportion. The way to give racing people the racing they want, is to ballot the ideas amongst the racers, and not ask for two representatives from each club to vote things in. I was never asked my views on items for the talk in, although I was a member of two clubs. As far as I'm concerned the voting representatives were all voting for what they wanted - which isn't fair.

I believe "seeding" is to be tried out at the first Championships - this will cause very bad feeling, as there is no fair way to do it, and takes away the art of racing whippets. I am proud when my dogs find the straightest and fastest way to catch the lure, and in my opinion, a dog which doesn't run straight, or wants to favour one side of the track is not as switched on as the one who makes a direct line to catch the lure. Surely we are not only looking for he fastest whippet, but one which demonstrates ability to catch the lure, and use its loaf!

If "seeding" is to be tried out, maybe the Whippet Rescue open would be the place to try it. The Championships should be premier meetings.

Anyway, I'm getting off my soap box now, as I'm late for work!!

 

[John E Greenwood]

Firstly I'm not entirely convinced that club racing is in decline, nationally.

I am not sure that people can be "forced" back into club racing by W.C.R.A. rules. It is possible to do both (opens and club) under the present regime...I do.

Club racing is the first rung on the ladder. Newcomers to the sport should keep the clubs busy and active....I.M.O. the key is advertising, and making sure that there is a friendly and welcoming atmosphere at club level. It would also help if open racers felt some loyalty to their clubs, and tried to put something back into the sport by encouraging their club, and newcomers to the sport....which of course, many already do :thumbsup:

 

[Paul Melia]

The trouble with that is that if there was no consolation racing, then 50% of dogs would only get one run. Owners wouldn't be getting much value for their money would they?

Isn't open racing about open class dogs competing as opposed to giving moderate dogs a day out?

Also an awful lot of dogs that don't consistently get through the first round belong to the same people as the dogs that do, so their owners would still be going to opens rather than club racing.

Fair enough, however these owners also have enough good dogs to overide the disappointment of their lesser gifted dogs only getting one run.

Whats wrong with 5 or 6 dog races? - there is more crowding, more bumping and so it becomes more about luck than speed.

I agree that there would be increased runnning problems for whippets running in 5/6 dog races as opposed to 4 dog races. However, I don't think it becomes more about luck than speed as fast/ clever dogs would be able to keep out of trouble.

 

[John E Greenwood]

I believe "seeding" is to be tried out at the first Championships - this will cause very bad feeling, as there is no fair way to do it, and takes away the art of racing whippets.  I am proud when my dogs find the straightest and fastest way to catch the lure, and in my opinion, a dog which doesn't run straight, or wants to favour one side of the track is not as switched on as the one who makes a direct line to catch the lure.  Surely we are not only looking for he fastest whippet, but one which demonstrates ability to catch the lure, and use its loaf!
If "seeding" is to be tried out, maybe the Whippet Rescue open would be the place to try it.  The Championships should be premier meetings.

Anyway, I'm getting off my soap box now, as I'm late for work!!

I agree, June....if a dog needs to be seeded, it isn't as well trained as one which doesn't need seeding, and therefore should have to accept the consiquences...The best racing dog should win....Speed is the biggest factor in producing a winner, but there is more to a racing dog than that 8) ....or should we stop racing and have championship time trials (w00t)

 

[BeeJay]

>I agree, June....if a dog needs to be seeded, it isn't as well trained as one which doesn't need seeding,

Interesting perspective John. As you have stated that a dog that crosses isn't as well trained how would you train a dog not to cross?

 

[BeeJay]

>>The trouble with that is that if there was no consolation racing, then 50% of dogs would only get one run. Owners wouldn't be getting much value for their money would they?

>Isn't open racing about open class dogs competing as opposed to giving moderate dogs a day out?

Why can't it be about both? This is an amateur sport where people drive for hundreds of miles to compete.

If dogs get into open finals on a regular basis then they are good open class dogs. If they get into cons finals on a regular basis then they are good cons dogs. It's a very good system as it is. There is no problem with running cons it doesn't devalue open racing as you are implying but rather enhances it.

 

[Strike Whippets]

Isn't open racing about open class dogs competing as opposed to giving moderate dogs a day out?


Fair enough, however these owners also have enough good dogs to overide the disappointment of their lesser gifted dogs only getting one run.

I agree that there would be increased runnning problems for whippets running in 5/6 dog races as opposed to 4 dog races. However, I don't think it becomes more about luck than speed as fast/ clever dogs would be able to keep out of trouble.

1st point .........If it wasn't for the "moderate" dogs as you call them, then Whippet racing would most certainly decline ..........

Your 2nd point .....What do you class as lesser gifted ?? .......I have seen slow dogs getting into the really light and really heavy weight finals due to lack of competition .....is thisfare that these weight groups have it easy or should it be put down to pure jammyness ??

Your last point ......Even the brightest dogs would get into trouble in 5/6 dog races ......and as I've already said in the small weight groups if they had a 5/6 dog heat you may aswell just call it a final ...........

And as for dogs not being trained properly that's why they cross .......It's a difficult one this .......Can only go by my own experiences but Jacob is as straight a dog as you'll ever see but if he's hit or lent on or barked at, he will cross over to the right side ........He hasn't always done this but due to having been badly (and I do mean badly) hit by another dog he classes that as his safety side :thumbsup: .......This dosn't mean that he's not 100%, just means hes far from stupid and is going to make sure hes safe :wub:

 

[Vicky]

Re: Seeding

I think it works well in non ped racing, i run one i seed, one i dont, the one i seed is fast out the boxes & if i didn't seed her in scratch races (champs) there's a big chance she'd spoil the race for other people. To say it's not trained well enough is a bit naive if you ask me, it has nothing to do with training, if a dog has a prefered side then there's not much you can do to change it, believe me i've know lots of people that have tried. My dog picked up a back injury from running with a dog that wanted its side & leant on most the way up the track, it was in no way tackling but trying to get to his side.

I agree if it's not a big problem in ped racing & people are ok to accept that their dog might get bumped off a dog crossing sides because it's "luck of the draw" then leave it as it is, just thought you might like to hear that it does work (unless you get tits seeding the wrong side to purposely spoil races - but thats another story :- " )

 

[Mark Roberts]

if a dog needs to be seeded, it isn't as well trained as one which doesn't need seeding, and therefore should have to accept the consiquences

Seeding isn't being introduced to help the dog that runs left/rights it's being brought in (or at least tried) to help the straight running dog that might be drawn next to a left or right runner and who might due to the running nature of the dog next to it have it's chances ruined at the traps by being hampard by the other dog.

but my own personal view is that this is all part of racing and ads to the excitment of a race, IMO seeding will just make racing more clinicle and results more predictable than they are now.