Open Race Handicaps

[Rob Rixon]

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This years 175 (170) yards opens at the following clubs have handicaps as listed.

Yd/lb at East Anglian, West Somerset & West Cornwall

3/4yd/lb at Harvel & Independent

What do you think is the best handicap to be fair to all?



Do you think Open Supreme runoff are necessary - or a good thing?

 

[Mark Roberts]

This years 175 (170) yards opens at the following clubs have handicaps as listed.Yd/lb at East Anglian, West Somerset & West Cornwall

3/4yd/lb at Harvel & Independent

What do you think is the best handicap to be fair to all?

I think most peoples replys will depend on whether they have the lightest of heavyest gog in a goup and so will depend whether they are getting or giving the yds away?

 

[Strike Whippets]

I personally think a yard per lb over 170/175 yards is to much .........Considering its a yard per lb over 240 yards :wacko: ......

 

[jade]

i agree with mark it will depend on weather your giving yards or gaining and supreme i must say i enjoy theses and if you dont want to run you dont have to

 

[slimfast]

1/2 yard 1b is plenty after all you dont get any at the champs.

and if you look at the times there is not much in it.

more scratch meetings please

 

[lynxexpress]

Personally i think 3/4yd over 170yds and 175yds is ample unless clubs make the weight groups more tighter eg.14 -17 18 - 20 etc but 14 - 19 is far to much to give away if you have got a 19ib dog you are giving away 5yds and that is to much.

Iwould like to know the reason why clubs are cutting back on weight groups is it because of money for trophies ? i would be interested to know.

As regards supremes if you have got a dog in a heavily subscibed weight group your dog could run 5 times and some others could have run 3 so i would certainly not run my dog in supremes that is if i was lucky enough to get a dog in them.

 

[lynxexpress]

1/2 yard 1b is plenty after all you dont get any at the champs.and if you look at the times there is not much in it.

more scratch meetings please

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We used to run a scratch open at Gloucester but they dont do it anymore i dont know why it was allways very popular.

 

[peppermint lady]

1/2 yard 1b is plenty after all you dont get any at the champs.and if you look at the times there is not much in it.

more scratch meetings please

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i agree :thumbsup: (thats what dad said as well)

 

[controversial]

scratch for me fastested dog wins

 

[BeeJay]

Um last year people moaned that there were too many scratch opens and that they didn't give other dogs a chance, so the same old, same old, dogs were getting into the finals. Hence less of 'em this year, the clubs listened and changed their formats IMO. Well at least there seem to be less of them but my memory isn't what it used to be so could well be wrong. :b

 

[Joanna]

I like the variety If it was all the same it would be boring and too predictable, all the competitors deserve to see the lure from time to time.

 

[Lurch and his tribe]

How do non peds race? do they only run scratch. With their dogs being much quicker surely we should be promoting the quickest ped dogs and using these to produce dogs capable of bridging the gap. I understand everyone likes to be involved but the difference amazes me.

 

[Joanna]

How do non peds race? do they only run scratch. With their dogs being much quicker surely we should be promoting the quickest ped dogs and using these to produce dogs capable of bridging the gap. I understand everyone likes to be involved but the difference amazes me.

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A pedigree whippet should conform to the breed standard, there should be more to breeding than speed. We should be looking at producing dogs with a nice temprament who are healthy and not prone to injury. One of my whippets is show-bred, he still enjoys a run, the other is pretty good, but so far hasn't lit up the sky. We go to enjoy ourselves, have a chat with friends and have a good-natured day of amateur sport. If we do well, it's a bonus.........It is TOUGH getting to the final at any open, a variety of dogs take part. Who do you think helps bring on the puppies? It is unlikely to be the WCR Champions, it is the steady dog who has a sound temprament, and not necassarily the fastest speed. The gene pool is small enough already, if every-one ued champions, we would have a myriad of problems. Also, champion parents DON't guarantee champion progeny.

 

[IanGerman]

Personally I think yd/lb is fairer over 170+ and especially at my own club, Harvel, who's straight track is run uphill, but I'd never be able to overcome the opposition from the owners of the larger dogs in order to change it!

Scratch racing would seem to be fair but actually isn't. The reason it isn't is because dogs are placed in WEIGHT groups and not "ability" groups. If dogs were to be grouped or graded according to what they were capable of doing then scratch racing would be the ONLY way. I'm aware that this works in greyhound racing because of the large numbers of dogs available and that with our much smaller pool of runners it would be almost impossible, but maybe there could be a way. (I'll do a separate topic for this when I get a moment!)

I don't think that because we run 240 at yd/lb that makes 170 unfair as the 240 is on a bend and the curve adds in more factors - like smaller dogs generally easing up LESS than heavier dogs when they hit the corner.

Supremes: hmmm - tough one this. On the face of it I would say they are fairly redundant, given that a lot of owners pull their dogs if they DO reach a Supreme. However, I can still remember the thrill from when Hattie won Supremes at Stanborough, back in the day, and it was the best times ever (well apart from the Champs that is!) But these days trophy costs are getting close to outweighing entry fees and unless clubs get generous donations or sponsorship from members then I'm sure there is a case to be made for dropping Supremes. (as a lot of clubs already have)

 

[BeeJay]

How do non peds race? do they only run scratch. With their dogs being much quicker surely we should be promoting the quickest ped dogs and using these to produce dogs capable of bridging the gap. I understand everyone likes to be involved but the difference amazes me.

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They also run at a yard per lb. They run generally over longer distances.

 

[Lurch and his tribe]

"A pedigree whippet should conform to the breed standard"

"We should be looking at producing dogs with a nice temprament who are healthy and not prone to injury."

I couldnt agree more but the whippet became popular because it was capable of performing certain roles. It worked hard for its space in many homes catching rabbits or winning money. Im new to racing and whippets but surely the whole point of a breed standard is to retain all the faceats of the breed.

Also from what I have seen so far we have visiting show dogs that could be great racing dogs that arent able to compete in UK racing as a ped. Surely this limits our racing gene pool and will eventually lead to unhealthy dogs.

Anyway I have gone way off topic and am still learning so will absorb more and listen to happily to both sides of the discussion. Also at the moment any of my racing is run scratch. Anyhow once my pup is born, schooled and racing I may well be very grateful for handicapping.

 

[Darcia]

In my personal opinion 3/4yd at 170/175 seems about right. I was pleased to see a change from so many scratch meetings this year, it is nice to get some different formats and I use to enjoy the uneven scratch groups at Glos because they not the norm but last year it seemed that lots of clubs went that way (probably only because my boys all had to give away each meeting - and they need all the help that they can get LoL).

As for supremes I am all for them, infact, I give a big thumbs up to the Inde for doing the consolation supremes - nice to give other dogs a chance to shine once in a while (not taking anything away from the dogs that win the main ones of course)

All in all I would just like to say thanks to all of the clubs that continue to run opens - I know first hand all of the hard work that is involved and appreciate people giving up their time so that we can all run our dogs in a friendly and fun environment.

 

[telstar]

I like the variety If it was all the same it would be boring and too predictable, all the competitors deserve to see the lure from time to time.

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:thumbsup: I agree Joanna

 

[SUNDANCE]

I wouldn't like to see all clubs dropping supremes. Its the supremes that decide which dogs win the top ten competitions. If there were no supremes, then the top ten would be just like the superstars leagues. Its possible to win superstars by dominating your own weight group over twelve opens. But, if you have a dog that weighs maybe 16 or 17lb or 30-32lb then there are often only half a dozen dogs in the weight group. Whereas the middleweight dogs usually have to take on 20 or more dogs to win their weight groups. So supremes are the best way to see which is the best dog on the day. Over the course of the open season this usually results in a light or middleweight dog winning the top ten. I would guess the average weight of top ten winners would be about 22lb.

So, I think supremes should continue. And after all, owners have the option of not running their dog if, say they have a lightweight which they don't want to get clobbered at the end of the race, or a heavyweight which(unless it is exceptional) is going to find it very hard to win.

 

[Smiffy@VeronnaV]

So supremes are the best way to see which is the best dog on the day.  And after all, owners have the option of not running their dog if, say they have a lightweight which they don't want to get clobbered at the end of the race, or a heavyweight which(unless it is exceptional) is going to find it very hard to win.

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If one is using the rationale that the supreme defines the best dog on the day, for that to stand up, then EVERY winner of EACH weight group HAS to be in the Supreme don't they? Otherwise, the best dog on the day MIGHT not win as it's not running because the owner doesn't want to risk injury from heavyweight dogs at the finish for example! You also have the issue of some weight groups having run 4 maybe 5 times, and the heavyweight having run 3!! Not exactly a level playing field is it? It isn't practible to try to alter such a weak system but if one is going to use this as the yard rule for determining the best that the breed can produce then perhaps it is worth trying to develop a fairer way to determine the best on the day and thus of the breed.

Maybe we should be thinking that the best dog on the day is the dog who is unbeaten all day! If a dog can run 3/4 times in a day, and be unbeaten all day, then surely that is worthy of recognition? Rather than a supreme where the large are pitted against the smallest! One could argue that using the 'unbeaten all day' system may give a clearer indication of the calibre of the dogs rather than supreme racing where some of the dogs are not running!