Outcross?

[jonesyins14]

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Probably been asked before, but, can somebody please clarify the definition of an 'outcross'. Is this when there is no common ancestor in 5 or 3 generations? As we know if we go back far enough we find the same names occuring. If a litter brother/sister occurs in the history is this classed as line bred or does it have to be the same dog on both sides? Many thanks for any comments. K.

 

[aslan]

Probably been asked before, but, can somebody please clarify the definition of an 'outcross'.  Is this when there is no common ancestor in 5 or 3 generations? As we know if we go back far enough we find the same names occuring. 
I've never thought about how to define it so accurately but I usually call an outcross when I have a dog or dogs of different lineage in the first two generations - parents/grandparents.  Eg when I brought Cash (kennel name Gilnockie but largely Peperone bred) in from England and mated him to Aime (she is line bred on Gr Ch Taejaan Read My Lips and Ch Denhills Deligate (Imp UK) - so that was an outcross even though a way back you'll find dogs in common.

If a litter brother/sister occurs in the history is this classed as line bred

Yes - as long as it's close up - say in the first three generations?  An example: I have a full brother and sister here - Dino and Aime - I mated Aime to Cash.  That is considered an outcross.  Dino will be mated to Jillie - who has lines in common with Dino (and therefore also with Aime) on her father's side.  Her mother is a NZ import and unrelated for a few generations.  ,I would call this pedigree line bred with a NZ outcross.  If I mated a Cash x Aime pup to a Dino x Jillie pup I would call that line bred on the Taejaan lines with English and NZ outcrosses.. 

or does it have to be the same dog on both sides? 

No it doesn't have to be - but the same dog on both sides would obviously be classed as line bred.

But, if the same dog, for example, only occurs twice, say in the fifth generation that's not close enough to be considered line bred

Many thanks for any comments.   K.

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Have I only served to confuse you even more?????????

 

[jonesyins14]

Thanks very much, yes this has helped ) I shall go away and study some pedigrees - bed time reading over christmas :cheers: K

 

[dessie]

Just to confuse you even more, I, personally, would consider very close matings such as brother/sister, father/daughter, mother/son etc to be IN-BRED and line breeding I would consider as common ancestors or slightly further relatives being mated such as cousins or aunt/nephew, grandfather/granddaughter but I wouldn't want too much of it. I only ever did a half-brother/half-sister mating once (with my Cockers) and felt it did not work and also I am not comfortable with matings that close, but have had success with both line breeding and outcrossing. However, you do have to consider carefully what you produce from whichever of the three possibilities you go for and probably put more thought into your next mating!!!

 

[Seraphina]

When I want to breed a litter I look for a dog that will best compliment her. That means he will be very strong where her weakness is. For instance if I have a bitch with not very good front I will look for a dog with excellent front, but I would also like to see that both his parents have good fronts and even more importantly his progeny has a good fronts. First i would consider ALL aspects of both my bitch and the stud dog as well as their ancestors and progeny, and only then I would take into consideration how closely related they are.

However in-breeding does weaken the immune system and I prefer not to mate dogs closely related.