References And Checking Out Buyers

[Seraphina]

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I always felt that people supplying references when applying for pups is quite useless. Obviously their friends are going to tell me how wonderful they are. So I rely on my own judgment to decide who I sell pups to. However, as i have just had to cancel puppy booking, I am starting to re-think my policy, I just wonder what others do.

When a breeder I do not know contacts me asking about a puppy, I ask people I know well, but would not ask somebody I would consider only an acquaintance.

Couple of years ago a breeder from other side of the world (who I just contacted re possibility of importing a puppy from) contacted me asking about another breeder, who i did not know anything about, but a very good friend of mine did. This person's kennels were total disgrace, they were actually taken to court and convicted with neglect and cruelty. Now, I had this information, which I felt I cannot withhold from the person who asked me, but in the same time I felt very uncomfortable passing it on to a total stranger, who may very well pass it on an naming me as a source. Even that my source is 100% reliable.

So all what I said was that I would under no circumstances allow any of my puppies to go to this breeder. But I always wondered how many people in that situation, would have just said they did not manage to find anything?

 

[seaspot_run]

I don't understand the problem here. If they were convicted of neglect and cruelty in court of law, then that info is out in the public sphere. Simply informing an overseas breeder of that fact IMO in no way constitutes an ethical problem.

 

[Seraphina]

Yes, in that case it was bit more straight forward, but if I spelled out what I was told I would have still passed on a second hand information about person I did not know. While the friend who gave me this info is a very decent and ethical person, what if she got it wrong?

On the other end of the spectrum what if the person you asked about somebody will maliciously tell a lie?

 

[Cartman]

I would have to tell then only what you know. EG; from a trusted friend etc....

& they said etc...

You must do that at least. If you dont, & you may of helped some ashol get yet another dog to neglect.

 

[seaspot_run]

Well, ok. I thought you were talking about facts that were searchable and verifiable. Cruelty cases often end up in the newspapers over here.

There are people here who for various reasons, I would not personally care to sell a dog. These reasons might include one or more of the following, but are not limited to:

1) I think they're a bit mental, and could tip over into serious nutjobbery at any moment in the future. Most dog collectors start out with good intentions and a decent reputation, but at some point, they tip over into actual mental illness and the dogs are caught up in that.

2) They have a reputation for having dogs which are often ill or seen dirty or not groomed in public. IOW, lazy or callous or not enough money, so entry fees get paid, but not the vet.

3) They have difficult personalities...paranoid, suspicious, thriving on gossip and always looking to pick a fight (many of these are very good in the home care and husbandry departments, which makes it tough).

4) Their ethics and honesty are suspect because you know they have told public lies about their dogs or about their fellow breeder/exhibitors (but their dogs may be well-cared for).

5) They love and dote on their dogs but make poor decisions about breeding, or are such terrible handlers that they make a good dog look bad, or they can't condition--overfeeding and/or underexercising...though they seem to love their dogs. The dog may have a great pet home life, but if you are trying to place something and have it do well and represent your bloodline and kennel well, this may not be the best placement.

6) They have too many dogs and too many litters each year to do a good job placing all their puppies, therefore, they have a higher than average number which end up requiring the services of Whippet Rescue.

7) They don't overbreed particularly, but in the rare instances where a dog of theirs is about to become homeless, they won't take the dog back or they say they'll take it, but they'll euthanize it even if it is otherwise healthy and could be rehomed (IOW, their breeding ethics aren't the same as mine).

There are so many things that come into play.

I think that for most of the above situations, you have to be pretty oblique and let people read between the lines. It's a problem, but if you don't have something concrete against someone, there's not much you can say that is concrete. You might not like them, but there will probably be many others who think they are wonderful. Some of these people might even be your friends, who also have dealings with that person you don't want to give a glowing recommendation to.

I think that it's best to just keep it to your personal experience or to actual verifiable facts, and leave gossip and rumor entirely out of it, even if you feel there is a great deal of fire somewhere kicking up all that smoke.

Easier said than done, though.

 

[Seraphina]

I would have to tell then only what you know. EG; from a trusted friend etc....& they said etc...

You must do that at least. If you dont, & you may of helped some ashol get yet another dog to neglect.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

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I certainly would not want to allow another dog to go to such conditions, and therefore i did warn the breeder. As far as i know no pup was sent.

But more often than not the situation is not so clear cut.

 

[GotWhippet?]

There are too many witch hunters and vindictive people in the show world that enjoy destroying other peoples reputation. I have been told quite nasty things about other peoples dogs and never to buy from them. Being the pigheaded person that I am I'd rather do my own homework and found out that "the said" people were good folk and treat their dogs fantastically. That also includes searching for potential studs.

I wouldn't pass on second hand information about anyone. I'd rather do my own homework. If it's references that you want than ask for references from the potential owners vet. At the end of the day it's not who's line they have it's how they take care of their dogs and that's all that matters imo.

 

[Seraphina]

There are too many witch hunters and vindictive people in the show world that enjoy destroying other peoples reputation.

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That is why I also go on my own instincts. But when selling puppy interstate and only talking to the potential buyers on the phone and through emails, it can be bit complicated to asses them correctly. And of-course, dealing between different countries is even more difficult.

 

I have just canceled interstate sale of a puppy that I held for these people for 3 weeks. I am now pondering if I should have ask around immediately when they first contacted me. I am wondering if people would tell me the truth or if they would not want to get involved?

That is why I remembered the incident when i was asked about a breeder, which happened some 4 years ago. I certainly felt compelled to warn the breeder/seller.

By the way, none of the people involved in that incident are in Australia. They are in 2 separate countries.