Results And Pictures 4th Nov

[buffyrannoch]

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Well today was our last day for this season, and what a season it has been, loads of great racing, and new dogs, pups trialling and some coming of age a few weeks before the end of the season, and getting their first experiences of racing, and doing really well :thumbsup: , tons of new faces, todays turn out was amazing, we had our bonfire at the end of the day after the trophies and jackets were presented :thumbsup:

I forgot to bring the racesheet home, so have to go from memory, which is a bit vague for the Maiden trophy :b

So heres the results

Pedigree Racing

Maiden Trophy 150yds

1st Echo :cheers:

2nd Luath

3rd Ruby

4th Finlay

All dogs

150yds 1/2yd/lb

Final

1st Braidy

2nd Echo

3rd Taur

4th Ruby

Top Pedigree Dog 2007 was Red Imp

Top Pedigree Bitch 2007 was Jen

Top Non ped dog 2007 was Gladrags

Cu-Luath Blue trophy awarded to Serendipity

And now for the pictures.............

Non Ped club champion

Pedigree Top Dog

Pedigree Top Bitch

All the jacket winners

Cu-Luath Blue trophy

Puppy Derby winner and Provost Cup - Brady

 

[buffyrannoch]

And all the Beagle trophy and Jacket winners

 

[Susan]

What a nice day out. A first for our whole family for months (w00t) . Well done to all the winner's :thumbsup: , there are going to be loads of new dogs running in 2008 and a lot of new faces too :thumbsup:

What nice friendly member's we have from the pedi whippet owners to the beagle owners. We have made some great friends through this club and NO IM STILL NOT GETTING A BEAGLE (w00t) :- " :lol:

2007 has flew by Roll on 2008 :thumbsup:

Thanks for having us again (non peds) :huggles:

 

[scooby]

Hi Susan, your right it was a great season and we too made lots of new friends, there have been many laughs along the way! It was great to see Colt yesterday he is looking amazing and what a size he is getting SUPERB,Scott would like to introduce a swear box to the club! we could buy a spanking new lure machine EVERY week, and kit out all the dogs with new jackets :thumbsup: have a good christmas and new year, you John , kids and dogs, see you next season BASKETS. :rant:

 

[scooby]

Hi everyone , just a quick line to let you all know the DNA results are in for MOLLY and ARROW'S pups, BURST INTO FLAMES and, PORRIDGE OATS ; IE for all you racing people out there, WCRch TALK OF THE DEVIL is the sire of the six lovely pups, and in our eyes Arrow who we met at the Morton in Marsh championships and used for a stud dog was NEVER EVER A FAWN DOG. It is our opinion he is a light red and white party colour, so i hope this has taught people a few lessons on the colours of dogs. We had nothing to prove by doing a Dna test, which cost quite a bit of money, there's one or two people who doubted the parternity of the pups , however now we have it in black and white and there can be no more questioning, see you at the races next year when our dog's kick ass :thumbsup: ADIOS

 

[Susan]

Yep we do need a swearing box :thumbsup: ,,The club will be rich at the end of the year with (w00t)

 

[gypsyfi]

Hi you two! we've seen quite a lot of this on whippet forums and heard it in the whippet world, why do people very often seem to question? Surely we need to go a bit on trust in this life!! I mean potentially EVERY litter could be sired by a dog other than that which the breader mentioned, regardless of coulour, so what is the point in all this questioning!! Surely IF someone was going to be dishonest in this way they would certainly choose a dog of THE SAME colour as the one they actually used so as not to get caught, so you could say it is LESS likely that there has been faul play if there are some question marks!! We're both REALLY sorry to hear your good name was questioned in that way, and think it is a PURE DISGRACE! Well done for getting the DNA tests, now that's a full stop under the matter! Good luck for the rest of the year and have a great Christmas!

Fiona and Julian

Hi everyone , just a quick line to let you all know the DNA results are in for MOLLY and ARROW'S pups, BURST INTO FLAMES and,  PORRIDGE OATS ; IE for all you racing people out there, WCRch TALK OF THE DEVIL is the sire of the six lovely pups, and in our eyes Arrow who we met at the Morton in Marsh championships and used for a stud dog was NEVER EVER A FAWN DOG. It is our opinion he is a light red and white party colour, so i hope this has taught  people a few lessons on the colours of dogs. We had nothing to prove by doing a Dna test, which cost quite a bit of money, there's one or two people who doubted the parternity of the pups , however now we have it in black and white and there can be no more questioning, see you at the races next year when our dog's kick ass :thumbsup: ADIOS 

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[scooby]

Hi FIONA and JULIAN, that's really nice what you wrote, it means a lot, you know me and Scott, dogs and kids are our lives, we were a touch upset and angry by what certain people insinuated, not to worry we proved them wrong and i find it very strange that the same people have not replied to our announcement concerning the results from the dna results,but one thing is for sure we DO NOT forget names. Would like to say our club is great so friendly and supportive and we are glad to be apart of it, one thing is for sure we are quite thankfull that we do not attend the club of the people who questioned the pup dna, the whole point of being part of the club is to work together ,support ,encourage and help other members and dogs do the best they can,it's called team work! Wishing you and your new husband a fab and groovy christmas and new year , with your german tartan kilts on :cheers: see you both next year

 

[Susan]

Hi FIONA and JULIAN, that's really nice what you wrote, it means a lot, you know me and Scott, dogs and kids are our lives, we were a touch upset and angry by what certain people insinuated, not to worry we proved them wrong and i find it very strange that the same people have not replied to our announcement concerning the results from the dna results,but one thing is for sure we DO NOT forget names. Would like to say our club is great so friendly  and supportive and we are glad to be apart of it, one thing is for sure we are quite thankfull that we do not attend the club of the people who questioned the pup dna, the whole point of being part of the club is to work together ,support ,encourage and help other members and dogs do the best they can,it's called team work! Wishing you and your new husband a fab and groovy christmas and new year , with your german tartan kilts on :cheers: see you both next year

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Hi Scott and Emma

Dont take it heart what folk have said :thumbsup: ,,some folk out there use k9 to get you hackels up :lol: Been there and done it

You have proven (' over £100 ) on the dna test to prove Arrow if the father of the pups :cheers: I wish the pups good luck in their new homes :thumbsup: , just wish one was coming here and I would kick ass with him

Just hope they get good racing homes :thumbsup: and a few stay in Scotland, so I can watch the grow and develope into racing dogs :thumbsup: and slag you about them being SLOW :lol: :lol: A wee bit of banter between Scott and myself :lol: and Emma too :cheers: :huggles:

 

[Judy]

I haven't posted on this subject before now because Jane did not want to make a big deal of the fact that she had asked you to have the puppies DNA profiled and parentage tested. That is why she suggested to you that it did not need to go on the internet. However, as you have now taken that option away from her, and given some of the remarks made here, we both feel that the time has come to explain just why she wanted it done. Also I am not sure whether you are aiming some of your remarks at me because I posted a link to a colour genetics site (in which case I think they are very unjustified) or whether they are aimed at other people that might have said something to you.

Firstly let me say that by asking you to have the puppies parentage analysis done, neither Jane nor anybody else was calling your good name into question. I think you must have misunderstood the situation so I shall try to explain it in the best way I can. I feel I should point out that I am doing this with Jane’s knowledge and permission as she wants you to understand and feels that I might be able to explain it more simply than she can. I’m not sure about that as it’s not a simple subject, but here goes……

As had been pointed out, two genetically fawn whippets cannot produce brindle puppies. Fawn is a recessive colour to brindle and therefore, it does not matter what colour its parents were, a genetically fawn whippet cannot be carrying or masking any other colours and therefore cannot pass them on to its progeny. The fact that some of your puppies were brindle meant that either, as I suggested in another thread, they would change colour and prove to be fawn, (I guess this hasn’t happened) or one of the parents, despite all appearances, had to be genetically brindle. You have already stated on here that Molly’s last litter produced 10 puppies to a fawn dog and that all the puppies were fawn as would be the normal situation. This really suggests that it has to be Arrow that has the brindle gene.

Now this means that Arrow must be, in genetic terms, rather unusual. There are a couple of genes that Arrow could have that would mask the fact that he is brindle. Both are recessive genes so Arrow would need to get one from both parents. One is the cream gene which does not allow the expression of pigment in the coat. Dogs with two cream genes look cream which doesn’t seem to apply to Arrow as he has plenty of pigment. The other possibility is that he has two of the recessive ‘e’ (for extension) genes. This gene removes only black pigment from the coat and leaves fawn untouched. This means that if all the black pigment were removed from the coat of a brindle dog, it would look as if it were fawn. If you look carefully at Arrow, you will see that unlike most fawns, he does not have a single black hair in his coat, not one. This would fit with him having the ‘e’ genes. You can read all about this gene if you follow the link I posted.

Neither the cream gene nor the ‘e’ gene would seem to be very prevalent in pedigree whippets in this country or this would be happening all the time and it doesn’t. Maybe it happens more time than is realized but it must still be rather unusual.

This in no way means that it is impossible though, only that because the incidence of the gene isn’t very prevalent in the population, it is not very often that a dog receives one from each parent. A dog which received only one copy of the gene would not have its true colour masked and would breed on as expected.

Given the perceived unusualness of the situation, Jane felt that it could not be just assumed that this was the situation with Arrow and the only way to prove that he was genetically brindle was for the puppies to be DNA’d especially in light of the fact that she had been told by someone from your club that before the puppies were born, you yourself had expressed a concern that your black stud dog Taur, could have possibly gotten in with Molly.

Being black, Taur could be carrying the brindle gene which can be masked by black but not by fawn. This does not mean that she or anyone else was saying that it happened, but given the unusual genetic situation with Arrow, Jane felt that the possibility that he might not be the sire of the brindle puppies had to eliminated first. I’m sure you can understand why.

The fact that the tests proved that Arrow was the father, also proved that despite the fact that he looks fawn, he is must actually be genetically brindle and can therefore can sire brindle puppies to other fawn bitches. In fact 50% of them should be brindle.

So, you see, Jane sent you the DNA testing forms from the Kennel Club because she wanted to know whether Arrow was genetically brindle or not and the only way of finding that out was to prove that he was the father of the brindle puppies as this would also indicate that he had to be genetically brindle. What colour he is genetically has relevance for Arrow’s future litters which is why she wanted to know.

Anyway, thanks to your having had the DNA tests done. Jane now knows the situation with Arrow. Nobody ever called your name into disrepute as you seem to think. Even if it had turned out that Taur had been the father, it wouldn’t have meant that you did anything underhand. We all know that accidents happen and many, many people that keep both dogs and bitches will be able to tell you that no matter how careful you are, it can sometimes happen even without the owner’s knowledge. However, you have now proved that Arrow is the father so well done you.

I hope this clears up any confusion and that you now realize you have no reason to be upset. All the best with the puppies.

 

[tanglewood]

Hi Judy

Have read your post and as I race non peds the DNA of certain dogs mean nothing to me. However I am interested to know if ths colour genetics applies to non peds as well? I have bred a few litters in the past mostly from blue bitches which have produced a multitude of differant colours is there a reason for this? I had a litter to one of our bitches which produced all blues except for one white and black dog our bich was blue (from a blue mother) to a completely black dog.

One of the Blue bitches from this litter went on to produce one Fawn bitch and one black dog.

The black and white goes on to produce black and white in every litter with very few blues and almost no fawns.

Does this mean that blue is a non colour which will be bred out with other colours ??

Or does this not apply to non-peds I am quite interested in this subject as whippets seem to be the only type of dogs with such a multitude of colours.

Val

 

[Judy]

Hi Val. I'll try and answer this one bit at a time but it is a complicated subject to explain in a few words and you might be better off reading some books on the subject, so apologies if its a bit confusing

Hi Judy
Have read your post and as I race non peds the DNA of certain dogs mean nothing to me. However I am interested to know if ths colour genetics applies to non peds as well?

Well, the colour genetics rules will apply but non-ped whippets may have some genes  inherited from non-whippets which may produce colours that whippets don't have.

I have bred a few litters in the past mostly from blue bitches which have produced a multitude of different colours is there a reason for this?

Yes, black or blue dogs can carry more recessive colours like fawn or brindle so are capable of producing blacks, blues, brindles and fawns depending on which genes the dog they are mated to possess and which gene they pass on to any given puppy.

I had a litter to one of our bitches which produced all blues except for one white and black dog our bich was blue (from a blue mother) to a completely black dog.

If no other colour except blacks or blues was produced then the probability is that either your bitch or the black dog had 2 copies of the black gene which meant that all the puppies would definitely receive a black gene from that parent and therefore, black being the dominant gene, they would all be black. Blue is produced when a genetically black dog also has a pair of recessive "dilute" genes (one from each parent) which alter the black pigment so that the dog looks blue. I think it works either by spacing the black pigment cells in the hairs further apart or by altering the cells shape. I can't remember which now.

One of the Blue bitches from this litter went on to produce one Fawn bitch and one black dog.

This means that as well as the black/blue gene your bitch received from one of its parents, it also received a fawn gene from the other one. It passed its fawn gene on to the fawn bitch. This fawn bitch must also have received another fawn gene from its father.

The black and white goes on to produce black and white in every litter with very few blues and almost no fawns.

If it produces blues then it has one recessive blue gene. The puppies are only blue when they also get a dilute gene from the other parent as well. If it produces any fawns at all then it is black (and white) carrying fawn. However it will only produce fawns when it is mated to a fawn dog or a black or brindle dog that carries fawn

Does this mean that blue is a non colour which will be bred out with other colours ??

I'm not sure what you mean?

Or does this not apply to non-peds I am quite interested in this subject as whippets seem to be the only type of dogs with such a multitude of colours.

Your right of course but there are some other breeds that come in a lot of colours too and there are also some colours that appear in other breeds that we don't get in whippets.

Val

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[cindy]

I haven't posted on this subject before now because Jane did not want to make a big deal of the fact that she had asked you to have the puppies DNA profiled and parentage tested. That is why she suggested to you that it did not need to go on the internet.  However, as you have now taken that option away from her, and given some of the remarks made here, we both feel that the time has come to explain just why she wanted it done. Also I am not sure whether you are aiming some of your remarks at me because I posted a link to a colour genetics site (in which case I think they are very unjustified) or whether they are aimed at other people that might have said something to you.
Firstly let me say that by asking you to have the puppies parentage analysis done, neither Jane nor anybody else was calling your good name into question. I think you must have misunderstood the situation so I shall try to explain it in the best way I can. I feel I should point out that I am doing this with Jane’s knowledge and permission as she wants you to understand and feels that I might be able to explain it more simply than she can. I’m not sure about that as it’s not a simple subject, but here goes……

As had been pointed out, two genetically fawn whippets cannot produce brindle puppies. Fawn is a recessive colour to brindle and therefore, it does not matter what colour its parents were, a genetically fawn whippet cannot be carrying or masking any other colours and therefore cannot pass them on to its progeny. The fact that some of your puppies were brindle meant that either, as I suggested in another thread, they would change colour and prove to be fawn, (I guess this hasn’t happened) or one of the parents, despite all appearances, had to be genetically brindle. You have already stated on here that Molly’s last litter produced 10 puppies to a fawn dog and that all the puppies were fawn as would be the normal situation. This really suggests that it has to be Arrow that has the brindle gene.

Now this means that Arrow must be, in genetic terms, rather unusual. There are a couple of genes that Arrow could have that would mask the fact that he is brindle. Both are recessive genes so Arrow would need to get one from both parents. One is the cream gene which does not allow the expression of pigment in the coat. Dogs with two cream genes look cream which doesn’t seem to apply to Arrow as he has plenty of pigment. The other possibility is that he has two of the recessive ‘e’ (for extension) genes. This gene removes only black pigment from the coat and leaves fawn untouched. This means that if all the black pigment were removed from the coat of a brindle dog, it would look as if it were fawn. If you look carefully at Arrow, you will see that unlike most fawns, he does not have a single black hair in his coat, not one. This would fit with him having the ‘e’ genes. You can read all about this gene if you follow the link I posted.

Neither the cream gene nor the ‘e’ gene would seem to be very prevalent in pedigree whippets in this country or this would be happening all the time and it doesn’t. Maybe it happens more time than is realized but it must still be rather unusual.

This in no way means that it is impossible though, only that because the incidence of the gene isn’t very prevalent in the population, it is not very often that a dog receives one from each parent. A dog which received only one copy of the gene would not have its true colour masked and would breed on as expected.

Given the perceived unusualness of the situation, Jane felt that it could not be just assumed that this was the situation with Arrow and the only way to prove that he was genetically brindle was for the puppies to be DNA’d especially in light of the fact that she had been told by someone from your club that before the puppies were born, you yourself had expressed a concern that your black stud dog Taur, could have possibly gotten in with Molly.

Being black, Taur could be carrying the brindle gene which can be masked by black but not by fawn. This does not mean that she or anyone else was saying that it happened, but given the unusual genetic situation with Arrow, Jane felt that the possibility that he might not be the sire of the brindle puppies had to eliminated first. I’m sure you can understand why.

The fact that the tests proved that Arrow was the father, also proved that despite the fact that he looks fawn, he is must actually be genetically brindle and can therefore can sire brindle puppies to other fawn bitches. In fact 50% of them should be brindle.

So, you see, Jane sent you the DNA testing forms from the Kennel Club because she wanted to know whether Arrow was genetically brindle or not and the only way of finding that out was to prove that he was the father of the brindle puppies as this would also indicate that he had to be genetically brindle. What colour he is genetically has relevance for Arrow’s future litters which is why she wanted to know.

Anyway, thanks to your having had the DNA tests done. Jane now knows the situation with Arrow. Nobody ever called your name into disrepute as you seem to think. Even if it had turned out that Taur had been the father, it wouldn’t have meant that you did anything underhand. We all know that accidents happen and many, many people that keep both dogs and bitches will be able to tell you that no matter how careful you are, it can sometimes happen even without the owner’s knowledge. However, you have now proved that Arrow is the father so well done you.

I hope this clears up any confusion and that you now realize you have no reason to be upset. All the best with the puppies.

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Thank you Judy for your reply to Scot as I personaly feel that Scot has been to hasty with his posts, but as Secretary of the Caledonian Thistle I do understand why Jane needed the D.N.A. tests done for the future of Arrows breeding,and if only people would bow down to someone with greater knowledge

of genetics as I myself have learned a lot with the outcome of this breeding and gained great knowledge from this.

I also can see that Jane and yourself did not doubt Scot in anyway and needed to know of Arrows genetic genes for future breeding.

This has been wrongly taken , with people so ready to jump on the band wagon I can only appologise to you both with the replies of the threads that have been posted.

Maggie

 

[gypsyfi]

Hi all, Ok from my own point of view, and I'm sure everyone of you out there posting, it is not a matter of trying to do anyone down, the point in a forum is that people with educated, adult oppinions can discuss and express themselves in a mature fashion. Nobody needs to have taken any offence in any way. The very act of making a posting is, by definition, openly and honestly sharing opinion, rather than backbiting. Now, having read the responses given from both sides, I feel much more informed, this is a direct result of people feeling free to express their opinions via this forum. Rather than anyone having to apologise I personally feel that this frank and open discussion has proven to all that this forum is doing it's job very well! I feel that we should all be happy that we live in a society where such openness is encouraged and that people feel so at ease to express their views/doubts in this way!

All in all I feel that we should all be feeling very happy with ourselves for being mature enough to use this forum as just what is meant to be, a discussion forum.

 

[scooby]

I haven't posted on this subject before now because Jane did not want to make a big deal of the fact that she had asked you to have the puppies DNA profiled and parentage tested. That is why she suggested to you that it did not need to go on the internet.  However, as you have now taken that option away from her, and given some of the remarks made here, we both feel that the time has come to explain just why she wanted it done. Also I am not sure whether you are aiming some of your remarks at me because I posted a link to a colour genetics site (in which case I think they are very unjustified) or whether they are aimed at other people that might have said something to you.
Firstly let me say that by asking you to have the puppies parentage analysis done, neither Jane nor anybody else was calling your good name into question. I think you must have misunderstood the situation so I shall try to explain it in the best way I can. I feel I should point out that I am doing this with Jane’s knowledge and permission as she wants you to understand and feels that I might be able to explain it more simply than she can. I’m not sure about that as it’s not a simple subject, but here goes……

As had been pointed out, two genetically fawn whippets cannot produce brindle puppies. Fawn is a recessive colour to brindle and therefore, it does not matter what colour its parents were, a genetically fawn whippet cannot be carrying or masking any other colours and therefore cannot pass them on to its progeny. The fact that some of your puppies were brindle meant that either, as I suggested in another thread, they would change colour and prove to be fawn, (I guess this hasn’t happened) or one of the parents, despite all appearances, had to be genetically brindle. You have already stated on here that Molly’s last litter produced 10 puppies to a fawn dog and that all the puppies were fawn as would be the normal situation. This really suggests that it has to be Arrow that has the brindle gene.

Now this means that Arrow must be, in genetic terms, rather unusual. There are a couple of genes that Arrow could have that would mask the fact that he is brindle. Both are recessive genes so Arrow would need to get one from both parents. One is the cream gene which does not allow the expression of pigment in the coat. Dogs with two cream genes look cream which doesn’t seem to apply to Arrow as he has plenty of pigment. The other possibility is that he has two of the recessive ‘e’ (for extension) genes. This gene removes only black pigment from the coat and leaves fawn untouched. This means that if all the black pigment were removed from the coat of a brindle dog, it would look as if it were fawn. If you look carefully at Arrow, you will see that unlike most fawns, he does not have a single black hair in his coat, not one. This would fit with him having the ‘e’ genes. You can read all about this gene if you follow the link I posted.

Neither the cream gene nor the ‘e’ gene would seem to be very prevalent in pedigree whippets in this country or this would be happening all the time and it doesn’t. Maybe it happens more time than is realized but it must still be rather unusual.

This in no way means that it is impossible though, only that because the incidence of the gene isn’t very prevalent in the population, it is not very often that a dog receives one from each parent. A dog which received only one copy of the gene would not have its true colour masked and would breed on as expected.

Given the perceived unusualness of the situation, Jane felt that it could not be just assumed that this was the situation with Arrow and the only way to prove that he was genetically brindle was for the puppies to be DNA’d especially in light of the fact that she had been told by someone from your club that before the puppies were born, you yourself had expressed a concern that your black stud dog Taur, could have possibly gotten in with Molly.

Being black, Taur could be carrying the brindle gene which can be masked by black but not by fawn. This does not mean that she or anyone else was saying that it happened, but given the unusual genetic situation with Arrow, Jane felt that the possibility that he might not be the sire of the brindle puppies had to eliminated first. I’m sure you can understand why.

The fact that the tests proved that Arrow was the father, also proved that despite the fact that he looks fawn, he is must actually be genetically brindle and can therefore can sire brindle puppies to other fawn bitches. In fact 50% of them should be brindle.

So, you see, Jane sent you the DNA testing forms from the Kennel Club because she wanted to know whether Arrow was genetically brindle or not and the only way of finding that out was to prove that he was the father of the brindle puppies as this would also indicate that he had to be genetically brindle. What colour he is genetically has relevance for Arrow’s future litters which is why she wanted to know.

Anyway, thanks to your having had the DNA tests done. Jane now knows the situation with Arrow. Nobody ever called your name into disrepute as you seem to think. Even if it had turned out that Taur had been the father, it wouldn’t have meant that you did anything underhand. We all know that accidents happen and many, many people that keep both dogs and bitches will be able to tell you that no matter how careful you are, it can sometimes happen even without the owner’s knowledge. However, you have now proved that Arrow is the father so well done you.

I hope this clears up any confusion and that you now realize you have no reason to be upset. All the best with the puppies.

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Thank you Judy for your reply to Scot as I personaly feel that Scot has been to hasty with his posts, but as Secretary of the Caledonian Thistle I do understand why Jane needed the D.N.A. tests done for the future of Arrows breeding,and if only people would bow down to someone with greater knowledge

of genetics as I myself have learned a lot with the outcome of this breeding and gained great knowledge from this.

I also can see that Jane and yourself did not doubt Scot in anyway and needed to know of Arrows genetic genes for future breeding.

This has been wrongly taken , with people so ready to jump on the band wagon I can only appologise to you both with the replies of the threads that have been posted.

Maggie

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