Sanity check on barrier frustration

[Shalista]

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So Freddie has a pretty solid case of barrier frustration on the leash and it is UGLY. he hurls himself at the end of the leash barking like crazy if he sees another dog.

He has a history of being fostered with other dogs and even lived at a doggy day care for a couple of weeks so I’m pretty confident he’s not aggressive just really really frustrated.

So far I’ve been doing avoid avoid avoid. Turn around walk away before he sees. Take alternative pathways if there’s normally a dog out in a yard etc.

But there’s A LOT of dogs in this neighborhood.

Plan B is if I see a dog before he does I get his attention and treat. We then treat every time he looks at me for the duration of our proximity to the other dog regardless of whether he barked or not.

My husband argued I’m rewarding the barking. I argue I’m rewarding the look at me in the face of overwhelming stimuli.

Thoughts?

 

[JudyN]

I would treat whenever he looks at you rather than the other dog, rather than requiring him to maintain eye contact till the other dog has gone. I would also praise/treat if he watches the other dog but stays calm. If he's at all worried by the dog, he'll be less worried if he can keep an eye on it, making sure it's not approaching or giving him a dirty look.

Avoidance is by far the best thing to aim for, though.

There's much more here: Dog Reactivity

 

[Shalista]

I would treat whenever he looks at you rather than the other dog, rather than requiring him to maintain eye contact till the other dog has gone.

Sorry I wasn’t clear. That is what I’ve been doing.

I’ll take a look at the link

 

[Flobo]

With my super reactive dog(in the early days he used to lose it to the point he caught my leg a couple times in his frenzy!) I ,and his owner, have religiously worked with him to avoid dogs and practice 'watch me' to keep his attention away from the trigger. When we first start walking I literally drip feed him tiny bits of treat every time he looks at me with lots of 'good boy' praise.
This consistency has really paid off, keeping his walks as calm as possible is a bit like CBT I reckon. A year, might be 18 months( I lose track of time!)down the line and he's much more relaxed on our walks. He's no longer on high alert, he's happy to chill out with me, lay down, have a drink and watch the world go by. He can watch a dog walk past with a relaxed lead from about 20ft now, which is miraculous! If he is triggered (unavoidable stuff), his reaction is way less and he recovers super quick, usually with a good shake, then off we go again, relaxed.
To me it really highlights how important preventing the reaction in the first place is the key, the more calm walks you give your dog and the more positive his experience is, the less anxious they are and the less the reactivity is triggered. Does that make sense? It just takes time...
I do have to add I am so proud of this dog, seeing him having a roll in the grass all happy is the best thing ever!!
So your husband is wrong!(In my humble opinion! )

 

[JudyN]

Something else to bear in mind is that though you could, possibly, reinforce the barking by treating, it's not possible to reinforce a negative emotion by rewarding the behaviour. The worst that could happen is that when Freddie sees another dog, he would turn to you and say 'Woof!' But it would be a calm woof, and in time, once he thought that seeing another dog was great because it meant he'd get a treat for saying 'Woof!' and wasn't at all anxious about the dog, you could simply phase out the treat, maybe just calmly thanking him each time for telling you about the dog.

 

[Shalista]

worked with him to avoid dogs and practice 'watch me' to keep his attention away from the trigger. When we first start walking I literally drip feed him tiny bits of treat every time he looks at me with lots of 'good boy' praise

This is exactly the phase we’re in right now and I’m seeing some incredible success already when it’s unavoidable to see another dog. Good to hear we’re on the right path.

 

[Flobo]

I've just checked my file on the dog I spoke about and it is almost 2 years to the day that I started working with him, where did that time go!! So to correct myself, it's been a 2 year journey to get where we are now... and as Judy mentioned, although I still drip feed the treats to start the walk, the rest of the time he gets a variety of positive responses from me now and not just food. It can be a 'good boy', a boop on the nose or a hair ruffle, just something that marks his focus on me and his walk...he enjoys all of them!
I've also introduced recently,(thanks to my crows' inputs) a 'you can leave' phrase, in a normal calm voice. I started using it to encourage him not to lunge at the crows when they were following us. This he does beautifully now and I've just started using it if we see a dog which also seems to work! Sure there is a method in my madness somewhere! But like I said this has been a long journey and it does highlight quite nicely how training evolves in it's own time and in it's own way

 

[Shalista]

I recently saw a video of someone using a recall cue when the dog sees another dog but before they react instead of a look. I’m curious peoples thoughts. I think it could be interesting to train your dog to return to your side immediately if they see a scary dog but I’m curious to hear a pros/cons of discussion between rewarding a look vs cueing for a recall.

 

[Hemlock]

Recall has to be as near as we can get to perfect (nothing with sentient beings is ever perfect) and once the command has been "poisoned" it will never be reliable again. So use a different word, one that doesn't sound like any other word you use with him (can be a made-up word if you like) and then it won't risk you losing his recall. I don't even use a word, but instead a tiny sound which means "get back beside me and on the side I'm tapping with my hand" with the bigger message "I will protect you".