Show Etiquette

[Roedeane]

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Last Saturday I went to watch judging at Newark. The steward duly called the puppy class in, there were 3 entered - one was ready and waiting so went in ( a 'newcomer 'to whippets after a 15 year break) He got his puppy stacked and was all prepared to be judged - Then the steward came around the ring to say he could see another exhibitor (newcomer) in the far corner with a whippet puppy, having a good old natter with other exhibitors of another breed. Instead of getting to the ring as soon as she could and apologise to the judge, she waited til her husband and she had picked up all their belongings, chairs, drinks etc and proceeded to position themselves by the whippet ring.After a good 15 minutes after the 2nd call from the steward she entered the ring - no apology to the judge or the other exhibitor. Now call me old fashioned but I feel that this behaviour is very unfair on the puppy already in the ring on time, who did get restless, but fortunately won the class, and shows disrespect to the judge. The junior class had one entry and wasn't there so PG was judged. The jnr exh then turned up and expected to be judged after PG and before Open! - also a newcomer. Fortunately a ch show judge put him right and he was not judged. People have always 'moaned' about your apprentiship in a breed, but surely this period is where you learn the etiquette and general rules of the showring? Is this happening all over the country or is Newark only blessed with novices who 'no-one can help' as they are of the opinion they 'know it all?' I should hasten to add there are some great new people I have met who are only too keen to learn everything they can. I have never attended any ringcraft that teaches the etiquette, just the practical side, so maybe this needs to be done with some people?

 

[TC]

LOL - I am laughing, but it's hysterical stuff, you know, brought on by shock! I can't believe what you've said, how rude were they?!

Luckily my ringcraft that started me out ran through all these sorts of things, but please, common courtesy and manners shouldn't need to be taught for goodness sake!

Good job I wasn't there. I have trouble keeping my mouth shut sometimes

TCx

 

[dawn]

is Newark only blessed with novices who 'no-one can help' as they are of the opinion they 'know it all?

I actually know that the people refered to would be more than willing to listen to any help and advice they are offered.

We all have to learn the ins and outs of showing and sometimes we learn from our mistakes. IMO the polite thing to have done would have been to take them to one side and explain where they had gone wrong after all if they are not told whats correct procedure and what is not how are they supposed to know.

Dawn

 

[Avalonia]

Last Saturday I went to watch judging at Newark. The steward duly called the puppy class in, there were 3 entered - one was ready and waiting so went in ( a 'newcomer 'to whippets after a 15 year break) He got his puppy stacked and was all prepared to be judged - Then the steward came around the ring to say he could see another exhibitor (newcomer) in the far corner with a whippet puppy, having a good old natter with other exhibitors of another breed. Instead of getting to the ring as soon as she could and apologise to the judge, she waited til her husband and she had picked up all their belongings, chairs, drinks etc and proceeded to position themselves by the whippet ring.After a good 15 minutes after the 2nd call from the steward she entered the ring - no apology to the judge or the other exhibitor. Now call me old fashioned but I feel that this behaviour is very unfair on the puppy already in the ring on time, who did get restless, but fortunately won the class, and shows disrespect to the judge.

Here in Canada you must be at the entrance way to the show ring and ready to go in when you class is called. Your number is called and you must enter the ring. If the holder of a number that is called doesn't enter the ring there are two more calls of the number by the ringsteward -- probably with 30 seconds between the calls, and if the dog is not then in the ring it is listed as absent and will not be judged that day. The waste of an entry fee by being off elsewhere is certainly discouraged by this fact. Since our entries in all breeds are considerably smaller than they are in the UK, typically a judge here will judge the entire hound group, in alphabetical order. Judges are expected to judge a certain number of dogs in an hour period, and so the premium list shows for instance, that breeds a, b, c will be judged within a set period of time begnning at..., and then breeds d e f will be judged beginning no earlier than a set time. Sometimes a judge who moves faster or who has absentees and finishes earlier, ends up sitting waiting for the time for the next classes to begin. Participants know then that they must be ringside by a pretty precise time, and that combined with the three calls and you have wasted your entry money is pretty good at ensuring everyone is at ringside ready to enter the ring.

I am not sure this sort of time based judging would work in numerically large breeds in the UK, but there is a rule of thumb here and I believe there too about how many dogs you should be able to judge in an hour period and surely approximate times could be given so exhibitors have a heads up when they should be ready to go into the ring, especially since you have benching which is sometimes distant from the ring, which we do not have here. Not having benching encourages you to be ringside because there is no where else to sit... which likely also results in few dogs missing their classes while their owners are off chatting and having sandwiches over in the benching zone.

Lanny Morry

avaloniawhippets.com

We also do something that I think makes it easier for people to know when their class is coming up and that is to publish premium lists of the entries which indicates at what time precisely judging of a breed starts, e fact

 

[affieluver]

i agree it was rude of her to not even apologise especially when there was somebody in the ring waiting but what i find even more bizarre is that nobody offered to tell her i know i appreciate all the help i can get and have made many mistakes in the past i guess we all live and learn

 

[bertha]

I think the steward is partly to blame. If people are not in the ring ready to be judged when called by the steward that is their fault. If the steward knew the exhibitor was by the ring why didn't he/she tell them the judge was waiting.

The height of bad manners. New exhibitors should read the rules and abide by them IMO.

 

[T Hoare]

LOL - I am laughing, but it's hysterical stuff, you know, brought on by shock! I can't believe what you've said, how rude were they?!
Luckily my ringcraft that started me out ran through all these sorts of things, but please, common courtesy and manners shouldn't need to be taught for goodness sake!

Good job I wasn't there. I have trouble keeping my mouth shut sometimes

TCx

It must be the name, cos I can be the same at times!

I believe there is a time scale of something like 5/10 minutes after the class has been called, to which you are not allowed to join the class unless the judge agrees??

Maybe the steward could have pointed out to the person concerned, they needed to be in the ring straight away. Although it is down to the exhibitor to be in the ring on time. I also agree that when new folk do not know the rules until they are pointed out to them(there are so many to learn!!).

 

[Roedeane]

is Newark only blessed with novices who 'no-one can help' as they are of the opinion they 'know it all?

I actually know that the people refered to would be more than willing to listen to any help and advice they are offered.

We all have to learn the ins and outs of showing and sometimes we learn from our mistakes. IMO the polite thing to have done would have been to take them to one side and explain where they had gone wrong after all if they are not told whats correct procedure and what is not how are they supposed to know.

Dawn

Funny Dawn, didn't see you there and I haven't named anyone so please enkighten us to who you are talking about? I know for a fact they have been TOLD 100's of times but DO NOT listen. AsI say, newcomers are welcome/needed in all breedes, but why do they not even show common courtesey as TC mentioned? You're right TC, it shouldn't have to be taught!

 

[jacqueline]

last saturday i also went to newark to watch the whippet judging, circumstances had prevented me entering as i didnt know if i could attend, unfortunatley the starter of this topic seems to have made up her own version on certain points or was not party to all the facts.

firstly because of the mix up with parking arrangemets (ie exhibitors from the game fair parking in the spaces reserved for the dog show) most people had to park a fair distance away, yes perhaps the puppy exhibitor had cut it a bit fine timewise, but under normal circumstances being third breed in the ring she would have been ok.

when the judging had ended for the second breed i phoned the exhibitor to see where she was, she was walking from the car park which must have been a good quarter mile away, when i told her position wise where we were in judging she started to run, i informed the steward that she was on her way & would be there asap, there was no 2nd call as the strward had informed the judge & it was his decision to wait, he also informed the other exhibitor as he walked into the ring,

when she arrived at the ringside she changed leads and went straight in apologising to the steward, judge and the other exhibitor, at no time did she stop for a "natter"with anyone as stated

as for the junior entry, yes maybe he did embarress himself by asking if he could now be judged, but new to showing he obviously doesn't know the ropes yet, we all have to learn somewhere so perhaps the breeder who sold him his puppy, knowing he wanted to show should have started him in the right direction and been more aproachable, these are very nice people not "know it alls" and are keen to learn from any advice offered,

i dont have any "axe" to grind and i dont usually post like this but i feel people are being mislead unfairly, i will not go into a slanging match on here, if the member who started this post wishes to phone me to clarify things she has my number

jackie

 

[shenace]

Our showing in New Zealand is pretty much like how Lanny explained, we are required ringside before the class is judged, our exhibit number gets called only 3 times & if you do not answer, you are deemed absent - there would be no more than a minute between 1st & last call.

Timing is important, our shows may start at 8.30am & are run as per the club schedule (not necessarily alphabetical) and if the judge is fast & absenteeism is high, you may miss out. Generally the judges do 35 - 40 dogs per hour, so I always calculate what time we are going to be on & make sure I am there at least 1.5hours before hand.

However, if we knew a fellow exhibitor is not far away & we could see them not focused at getting to the ring, we would generally shout out to them to get a move on, mostly the ring would not be stopped or held up if they were not ready. And once the class is handed over to the judge, you are not allowed to enter or exit the ring until judging has been completed and you have to stay in the numerical order you were called in.

Newbies do need help and it is important to drum into them, "The Show Will Go On" (even though I think in the UK you are a bit more relaxed with this), having said that, we have some well experienced exhibitors who at times think the show will wait for them....WRONG!!!

A feast of 4 shows for us this weekend & we will be at the grounds at sparrows fart, feels like forever since we have been to a show & it was only the beginning of the month :b

 

[TC]

last saturday i also went to newark to watch the whippet judging, circumstances had prevented me entering as i didnt know if i could attend, unfortunatley the starter of this topic seems to have made up her own version on certain points or was not party to all the facts.
firstly because of the mix up with parking arrangemets (ie exhibitors from the game fair parking in the spaces reserved for the dog show) most people had to park a fair distance away, yes perhaps the puppy exhibitor had cut it a bit fine timewise, but under normal circumstances being third breed in the ring she would have been ok.

when the judging had ended for the second breed i phoned the exhibitor to see where she was, she was walking from the car park which must have been a good quarter mile away, when i told her position wise where we were in judging she started to run, i informed the steward that she was on her way & would be there asap, there was no 2nd call as the strward had informed the judge & it was his decision to wait, he also informed the other exhibitor as he walked into the ring,

when she arrived at the ringside she changed leads and went straight in apologising to the steward, judge and the other exhibitor, at no time did she stop for a "natter"with anyone as stated

as for the junior entry, yes maybe he did embarress himself by asking if he could now be judged, but new to showing he obviously doesn't know the ropes yet, we all have to learn somewhere so perhaps the breeder who sold him his puppy, knowing he wanted to show should have started him in the right direction and been more aproachable, these are very nice people not "know it alls" and are keen to learn from any advice offered,

i dont have any "axe" to grind and i dont usually post like this but i feel people are being mislead unfairly, i will not go into a slanging match on here, if the member who started this post wishes to phone me to clarify things she has my number

jackie

Thanks for posting that.

I must admit, I probably sounds really hash now. I think hearing the the two versions shows the difference in perception.

It is a shame that not all ringcraft classes go through all the different scenarios, situations, rules and regulations as mine did.

TCx

 

[starswift]

:clown:SPARROWS FART??? LOL

 

[Sachiko]

This has been a bit of an issue in Finland.

Some seem to think they have earned enough "name" to act as they want: be extremely rude to other handlers, come to the ring late and play "judge games". The kill the whole spirit and sport in dogshows.

I just heard of one of the most succesfull handlers in Finland to call the two stewardesses with horible names possible because he wasn't in time in the ring and the class was judged before he arrived and he did not get his dog judged at all.

He tought that as he was handling another dog on the other side of the show area, the stewardess should have come to call him to the ring and not pass HIS dog by. He seems to have the idea that he deserves special treatment.

Nothing was done about this, even if there was the option of two years ban to the dogshows to correct his attitude. He and his dog placed really high in the best showdog of the year -list... Not right if you ask me. If one does not play by the rules, he should not be rewarded. :angry:

 

[starswift]

novices you can forgive but not the ones that come in late all the time just so they get noticed ARRIVING lol

 

[bertha]

novices you can forgive but not the ones that come in late all the time just so they get noticed ARRIVING lol

Know what you mean, and there are a few of them about.

 

[bertha]

novices you can forgive but not the ones that come in late all the time just so they get noticed ARRIVING lol

Know what you mean, and there are a few of them about.

 

[chelynnah]

The circumstances of the original post have now been explained from both sides so I would suggest that we leave that part of the topic alone, however i wanted to address Lanny's post - the type of show in question here is an Open Show so much smaller entries, less formal, no benching etc. Times subject to change. There generally is a ring order, but judges aren't expected to stick to time. Exhibitors are expected to be there. The only 'set times' are when judging starts, and breeds 'not before x time' Anything else is up for moving around if rings or weather changes etc...

Sorry, it's late (or early depending on what side of sleep you're on - it's almost 5am here) so I'm rambling a bit. Anyway, the point is that it's not as formal a show as you've outlined because it's an open show. A Ch show would be much more like you would suggest.

That's not to say that wherever possible exhibitors should be at the ring or near the ring or watching close. We all know there are extenuating circumstances at times. I've been on both sides of those.

However - courtesy is courtesy no matter what the show or country (not intended to reflect on the people in the original post - just commenting on how the thread has evolved). I know when I've been unavoidably late I've had to either forfeit a class, or been lucky enough to have someone at the ring I've been able to phone and they've waited a minute or two, and in the second circumstance I have been truly grateful (and apologetic) when I've arrived and been allowed to be seen.

Still babbling so I'll stop - not sure if I've made any sense.

Wendy

 

[T Hoare]

Going on from the last post.

In 27 years of showing we have only been late to a show twice, which is not bad going.

Once in 1991 when we went to Leeds and in working out how far/what time to leave I missed out a page in my map, some 60 miles or so!! We got to the show just as Limit Dog(my class) was being judged, I managed to get a VHC.

The other time was for an Open show at Poole. It was a new venue & we had milked a herd of cows before leaving home. We could see the show from the dual carriageway we were on but couldn't see a way of getting to it!! We eventually did just as Best of Breed was awarded.

 

[Sachiko]

novices you can forgive but not the ones that come in late all the time just so they get noticed ARRIVING lol

Know what you mean, and there are a few of them about.

I know a women who doesn'r enter the ring before everyone else is there. Thinks she can place better like that.. :clown:

 

[pgtips]

I was late into a Stakes Class at a Champ Show, having just been in my breed classs. I asked the steward if it was all right, and he told me off!!!!, we then exchanged opinions, he then then told me to go and stand at the top as the last dog was just being judged. I duly did as I was told and thought "wait till I come out, I'll have a word with him and politely inform him that if he speaks to me again like that I will puch his lights out". We won the class and I decided that discretion was probably the better part of valour so ignored him on the way out. It just goes to show, I probably looked a numpty, being late for my class, and told off by the steward, or alternatively it could have looked like I had my dog relaxing somewhere waiting for the right moment to enter the ring. As it was my dog had been in the breed ring in a very big class in the blazing sunshine, he was placed there and we had to run to the BIS ring for the Stakes Class.

My daughter informed me later that said steward was wearing a badge denoting he was a member of The Kennel Club and should have been more sypathetic to my predicament, however she also pointed out that I am a member of the Women's Institute and know "naff all" about making jam.

Jenny

(Quintessence, Posting on OH's username as I couldn't get in on mine)