The Kennel Club Accredited Breeders Scheme

[EJW]

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The attached letter has been sent to the dog press & I have permission from the author to reprint it here.

Many good & responsible breeders in all breeds are very concerned about the implications of the KCABS.

A lot of caring breeders (not only in IG's) feel that this scheme is not in the best interests of pedigree dogs.

However, it does allbeit inadvertently seem to be turning into an advertising medium for puppy farmers!

Accredited_Breeders_Scheme.doc

 

[doris]

interesting reading :unsure: I didn't know much about the scheme, does it have any good points :wacko:

 

[dolly]

Well said JO !!

The KC ought to look here !!http://www.manytears.co.uk/

How many ex brood bitches form puppy farms do they get a year, i would hate to guess !!

 

[Kurwenal]

This letter is dead right!

KC accreditation in no way means a breeder is to be recommended, or their stock is any good, or their knowledge of breeding pracices, puyppy rearing is satisfactory - for £20 we can all be accredited breeders.m When the KC is happy to list people who have never bred a litter of a breeds, and have had scant experience of exhibiting/ owning the breed and certainly have had no success in the ring whatsoever, as accredited bvreeders of that breeds, simply because they have paid the £20 to become a member is quite frankly a disgrace, and is misleading (to put it mildly) to prospective new owners who think that these breeders must be ok if recommended by the KC.

How anyone can possibly have the audacity to actually apply for accreditation never having bred a litter of the breed they are appliyng to be accredited for is beyond me.

I personally would never wish my name to be associated with such a scheme as long as they admit all and sundry, and there is no real policing of the scheme.

 

[kris]

couldnt agree more.all the kennel club is interested in is another money making scheme. :angry: how on earth can someone be an accredited breeder with as it implies kennel club approval when theyve never even bred a litter is beyone me. (w00t) i think ive lived too long :wacko:

 

[doris]

I haven't read it myself, but is that really right, that you can be an accredited breeder if you've never had a litter? :unsure:

so what does accredited breeder actually mean? :blink:

OMG, I am so confused now :wacko: probably best if I just go and read the KC stuff myself :thumbsup:

 

[Kurwenal]

I haven't read it myself, but is that really right, that you can be an accredited breeder if you've never had a litter? :unsure:
so what does accredited breeder actually mean? :blink:

OMG, I am so confused now :wacko: probably best if I just go and read the KC stuff myself :thumbsup:  

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all you have to do is pay £20 (or thereabouts) and agree to do x,y,and z. - which is not actually enforced anyway!

accreditation means absolutely nothing other than youve said youll abide by a few (weak) rules and paid ur money

 

[doris]

so I guess the 'average' person looking for a puppy will be impressed by something that doesn't really hold much weight? :unsure:

it just sounds so unfair, people are critised for not doing any research before getting a puppy, but if they can't trust the Kennel Club recommendations its hardly surprising people get it wrong :angry:

and who pays the price - yep, the dogs, yet again :rant:

 

[Mabelline]

The KCAB Scheme has merely become a form of advertising. When people ask me if I am a KC Accredited Breeder I always say that I am not, I try to be a good, reputable breeder and have no need to advertise and will not be associated with such a scheme.

I am sure it was never the intention of the KC for it to have happened this way but as always there are those who are quick to take advantage of any flaw in the system which enables them to make a quick profit. As always the dogs pay through the propagation of the puppy farmers

The only criteria is to pay £20 up front and fill in a form. Anyone approaching the KC for the name of a breeder is given one from the KCABS whilst reputable people with a long history of producing sound healthy and winning stock, even a long list of Champions and KC Stud Book Numbers are overlooked. A lot of these people do not feel they should be co-erced into having to pay £20 to advertise.

 

[Kurwenal]

pat is dead right!

many of us who have bred good dogs and indeed top winning dogs are in many cases unwilling to joinn any such scheme that admits all and sundry simply on the basis of paying a fee and ticking a few boxes on a form, with no requirement to have a proven track record in the breed - a criterion that I would have thought should be prerequisite.

 

[zilloot]

The KCAB Scheme has merely become a form of advertising. When people ask me if I am a KC Accredited Breeder I always say that I am not, I try to be a good, reputable breeder and have no need to advertise and will not be associated with such a scheme.
I am sure it was never the intention of the KC for it to have happened this way but as always there are those who are quick to take advantage of any flaw in the system which enables them to make a quick profit. As always the dogs pay through the propagation of the puppy farmers

The only criteria is to pay £20 up front and fill in a form. Anyone approaching the KC for the name of a breeder is given one from the KCABS whilst reputable people with a long history of producing sound healthy and winning stock, even a long list of Champions and KC Stud Book Numbers are overlooked. A lot of these people do not feel they should be co-erced into having to pay £20 to advertise.

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I agree entirely - the KC are a bunch of idiots if they think honest people will be fooled by a money-making scheme like this.... I hope!

If only the general public could get the concept of genuine 'research' into their thick skulls we wouldn't have backstreet breeders, puppy farmers and those with no experience at all claiming to be 'Accredited Breeders'!!!! A little common sense would go a long way to educate puppy buyers. They're just being fooled (and are fools.)

HOW can someone be registered with the KCABS if they've never bred a litter of that breed???? It's a huge insult to the breed as a whole and raises the ugly question of breeding-for-financial-gain again. What other reason would they need the KC to do the advertising legwork for them. Inexperience and ignorance do not make for quality puppies and we are a 'vulnerable' breed as the KC is quick to forget!!!

I feel an angry letter to the KC brewing in my biro......

 

[quintessence]

Why is it that The Kennel Club in incapable of looking at this, realising they got it wrong and doing something about it, why aren't the 'members', many of whom I assume show and breed , letting their voices be heard.

The letter is excellent, and I think should be cross-posted to whippets.

Jenny

 

[Seraphina]

Sounds like something similar introduced here in OZ in Victoria. Here you can for a fee be listed on the VCA official website. And yes the offer has been mainly taken by the newcomers. But we all have to start somewhere. It is pity that the well know breeders do not get their kennels listed, as that could only be great help to people looking for puppy and could only be good for the breed. I think calling it "acreditation" was a mistake, but maybe the KC thought that would give incentive to breeders to join in. If breeders decide not to be listed, or acredited in UK, I do not think they have a right to complain.

I am not quite sure of many of the points the writer of the letter is making.

For instance I fail to see how can a person who is only just expecting first litter be branded as a puppy farmer? Sounds to me as sour grapes that person has orders for their first litter. If any of the people on the acredited breeders register are indeed overbreeding their bitches, or keeping their dogs in attrocius conditions, surely there are ways to deal with them. Doesn't your KC have rules about how often bitch can be bred from and re- general condition the dogs are kept in?

 

[kris]

of course there are rules about how often a bitch can be bred from.and of course its a rule thats easy for the puppy farmers to get round.i knew a so called breeder in toy poodles who would register 2 bitches in a litter when only 1 had been born.when that pup was being bred from shed register the litter then when she bred from the same bitch on its next season shes register the pups as being out of its imaginary litter sister. this would go on and on till the bitch was too old/exhausted to breed from again then shed sell it as a pet.not everyone is trustworthy and abides by the rules.i was on the stud your dog site the other day that was recently highlighted on this site.looking at some of the ads on there fills me with horror. 7 month old bitch looking to be bred from on next season,3 yr old bitch wants a litter to calm her down etc etc etc.i could tell you stories of people i know who make up false papers and i even know of a case where rescue pups were being taken in and then sold on with false papers.breed rescue knew of it but couldnt use their rescue funds to make a case against them.all im saying is that if the kennel club want to make list of breeders with kennel club accreditation then they ought to do a bit of checking and have a few higher criteria than have you got 20 quid?ok youre accredited.no decent breder would want to be part of a scheme where joe bloggs down the road whos a puppy farmer or jack smith down the road who has pet bitch that shouldnt be bred from is being bred from and they can boast to potential enquirers that they are kennel club accredited.i know from experience that the public would think this is a stamp of approval from the kennel club whom the public tends to think of as the holy grail of dogdom.

 

[Kurwenal]

Sounds like something similar introduced here in OZ in Victoria.  Here you can for a fee be listed on the VCA official website.  And yes the offer has been mainly taken by the newcomers.  But we all have to start somewhere.  It is pity that the well know breeders do not get their kennels listed, as that could only be great help to people looking for puppy and could only be good for the breed.  I think calling it "acreditation" was a mistake, but maybe the KC thought that would give incentive to breeders to join in.  If breeders decide not to be listed, or acredited in UK, I do not think they have a right to complain.
I am not quite sure of many of the points the writer  of the letter is making.

For instance I fail to see how can a person who is only just expecting first litter  be branded as a puppy farmer?  Sounds to me as sour grapes that person has orders for their first litter.  If any of the people on the acredited breeders register are indeed overbreeding their bitches, or keeping their dogs in attrocius conditions, surely there are ways to deal with them.  Doesn't your KC have rules about how often bitch can be bred from and re- general condition the dogs are kept in?

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The KC DID have a rule about not breeding more than once in a twelve month period - but subsequently dropped it. I cant imagine why :- "

The KCAB scheme is purely a revenue generator for the KC as far as I can see.

I can assure everyone that the author of the letter re KCAB most certainly doesnt have ANY sour grapes - and if soneone does have a waiting list for their first litter, by virtue of their listing as a KCSB, when they have no proven track record, then IMO this amounts to misrepresentation, and there is a high likelihood that purchasers have been misled by such a listing.

SOur grapes it certainly is not. Many of us breed so infrequently that we purposefully dont keep waiting lists, as we only breed when we require a puppy for ourselves - probably only homing one or 2 puppies every 2 or 3 years.

Accreditatioon should come as a result of a proven track record, and NOT on payment of a fee

 

[EJW]

Sounds like something similar introduced here in OZ in Victoria.  Here you can for a fee be listed on the VCA official website.  And yes the offer has been mainly taken by the newcomers.  But we all have to start somewhere.  It is pity that the well know breeders do not get their kennels listed, as that could only be great help to people looking for puppy and could only be good for the breed.  I think calling it "acreditation" was a mistake, but maybe the KC thought that would give incentive to breeders to join in.  If breeders decide not to be listed, or acredited in UK, I do not think they have a right to complain.
I am not quite sure of many of the points the writer  of the letter is making.

For instance I fail to see how can a person who is only just expecting first litter  be branded as a puppy farmer?  Sounds to me as sour grapes that person has orders for their first litter.  If any of the people on the acredited breeders register are indeed overbreeding their bitches, or keeping their dogs in attrocius conditions, surely there are ways to deal with them.  Doesn't your KC have rules about how often bitch can be bred from and re- general condition the dogs are kept in?

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The KC DID have a rule about not breeding more than once in a twelve month period - but subsequently dropped it. I cant imagine why :- "

The KCAB scheme is purely a revenue generator for the KC as far as I can see.

I can assure everyone that the author of the letter re KCAB most certainly doesnt have ANY sour grapes - and if soneone does have a waiting list for their first litter, by virtue of their listing as a KCSB, when they have no proven track record, then IMO this amounts to misrepresentation, and there is a high likelihood that purchasers have been misled by such a listing.

SOur grapes it certainly is not. Many of us breed so infrequently that we purposefully dont keep waiting lists, as we only breed when we require a puppy for ourselves - probably only homing one or 2 puppies every 2 or 3 years.

Accreditatioon should come as a result of a proven track record, and NOT on payment of a fee

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Absolutely spot on Russell! Well said :thumbsup:

 

[Seraphina]

accredited breeder scheme

Here is a link to your KC according to this info;

When Accredited Breeders register a litter

 

Every time an Accredited Breeder registers a litter, the sire and dam of that litter are checked for compulsory permanent identification (microchip, tattoo or DNA profile are currently acceptable). In addition, both sire and dam are checked for compulsory health screening scheme results that are relevant to their breed. All the usual Kennel Club rules and regulations must be complied with.

That does not sound to me as something that any puppy farmer would want to subject himself.

Litters and numbers of puppies registered by Accredited Breeders are monitored and compared with orders for additional puppy sales wallets. If Accredited Breeders do not seem to be purchasing adequate supplies of wallets, they are contacted regarding this matter. The Kennel Club has the facility for further investigation, as upon joining the Scheme all Accredited Breeders sign a declaration as follows:

and

The breeder agrees that the Kennel Club may visit facilities upon giving reasonable notice.

 

If there are issues of concern arising from a visit and it is considered that the facilities fall short of the standards expected for an Accredited Breeder then this may result in the breeder being removed form the scheme.

 

Full details of what is involved and expected of an Accredited Breeder for a Breeder Adviser visit are available on request.

Sounds to me perfectly reasonable, and frankly I cannot understand why people would not pay their 20 pounds and then work with the KC to improve, tighten the rules? It is certainly lot better than the official listing we have here.

 

[neave]

I read this letter in this weeks DW and i must admit a agree with what has been said

 

[EJW]

I read this letter in this weeks DW and i must admit a agree with what has been said

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A lot of us do Neave

I received info from the KC this morning telling me how easy it is to beome a member of this scheme & all it costs is £15!

It does point out that remaining a member is supposed to be harder! :blink:

Apparently the KC hope that feedback from puppy buyers etc will help weed out the unscrupulous ones. But frankly I'll believe that when I see it happen!

In my opinion everyone who wishes to become a member of this scheme should have to prove before joining that they have had the appropriate health screening & DNA checks etc on their dogs before even being allowed to become a member!

That would weed out some of the puopy farmers!

If I were a first time breeder I would most certainly not expect to become an accredited breeder!

 

[Jan Doherty]

accredited breeder scheme
Here is a link to your KC according to this info;

When Accredited Breeders register a litter

 

Every time an Accredited Breeder registers a litter, the sire and dam of that litter are checked for compulsory permanent identification (microchip, tattoo or DNA profile are currently acceptable).  In addition, both sire and dam are checked for compulsory health screening scheme results that are relevant to their breed.  All the usual Kennel Club rules and regulations must be complied with.

That does not sound to me as something that any puppy farmer would want to subject himself.

Unfortunately it is just the thing a puppy farmer would do and pass on the cost to the'customer'. These people will do anything to appear creditableLitters and numbers of puppies registered by Accredited Breeders are monitored and compared with orders for additional puppy sales wallets.  If Accredited Breeders do not seem to be purchasing adequate supplies of wallets, they are contacted regarding this matter.  The Kennel Club has the facility for further investigation, as upon joining the Scheme all Accredited Breeders sign a declaration as follows:

and

The breeder agrees that the Kennel Club may visit facilities upon giving reasonable notice.

Unless the Kennel Club employ some one to do this it is highly unlikely that it will happen and only if they receive acomplaint about the breeder. Most Puppy farmers are canny enough not to let customers into the breeding areas, the dogs are brought to you

If there are issues of concern arising from a visit and it is considered that the facilities fall short of the standards expected for an Accredited Breeder then this may result in the breeder being removed form the scheme.

So what they just go back to advertising on the open internet or in trade papers

 

Full details of what is involved and expected of an Accredited Breeder for a Breeder Adviser visit are available on request.

Sounds to me perfectly reasonable, and frankly I cannot understand why people would not pay their 20 pounds and then work with the KC to improve, tighten the rules?  It is certainly lot better than the official listing we have here. 

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Having looked at the scheme I am still at a loss as to how this is working with the kennel Club? All it means is that you have a permeanant advert and outlet for puppies. We have something called the breed record supplement here which shows every puppy registered. The commercial breeds such as Cavaliers have pages and pages printed many from the same breeder so even having their names in print for the world to see does not stop them and the Kennel Club just keeps on taking the registration fees. Its all about revenue Im afraid and so is the accredited breeders scheme