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THE TRUTH ABOUT RUMOURS & LIES - March 24th 2006
OPEN LETTER RESPONSE TO ‘K9 Forum’ - “BLACK HOODWINKER” TOPIC
Can be vied and 'copied' at this link - K9 ‘Truth’ Page
*PERMISSION GRANTED TO CIRCULATE AND ‘CROSS POST’ IN ITS ENTIRETY*
What a deplorable display and abuse of a public medium this has become; it is indeed very black times for the whippet world.
It seems that those involved really have outdone themselves and it’s been disappointing to see the lapsed Moderation.
Prior to venting opinions on this forum it would be helpful if everyone were to review the agreements that they have entered into for membership of this group and as members of their respective state affiliate to the ‘ANKC’ Australian National Kennel Council (“..shall not bring fellow members into disrepute..”)
A quick reminder for us all, the rules for the K9 Forum are:
• No trolling.
Don't make posts that are inflammatory just to get people riled up. Substance is the key to not being labeled a troll.
• Personal attacks are not welcome.
Criticise ideas, not people. Flaming will not be tolerated.
No member or Moderator is allowed to engage in public personal attacks on any other member or Moderator.
Personal attacks are defined as Personal, Racial, Ethnic, and/or Gender based insults, slurs, or derisive comments.
This forum is intended as a means for wholesome interaction between people who enjoy similar interests; mainly, the welfare and betterment of the Whippet breed, not as an avenue to spread malicious gossip and slander an individual.
It will never cease to amaze me how one human being will behave towards another and how retaliative actions manifest in those desperate to chop-down anyone who stands-out in any way.
It’s worrying to think the K9 members involved in the posts over the past few weeks have chosen to alarm others and have done this quite effectively, with unsubstantiated claims and without any direct knowledge or factual proof.
I had prepared this reply 10 days ago, however after numerous revisions to this letter, I had decided against posting any reply and was prepared to let it go. After talking to many of my friends, some of whom are fellow breeders, I was advised not to ‘bite-back’, but following the recent round of posts, I’ve decided enough really is enough.
For the record, I have 22 dogs. All are kept in peak form and are happy and healthy. My pups are maintained in excellent condition and are well socialised and outgoing. I have never bred from the same bitch more than once, nor would I ever allow any mating of a bitch to contravene Regulations.
If anyone had any real apprehension over the welfare of my dogs and pups, they should have directed these concerns to the RSPCA (Royal Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals) or the ‘VCA’ (Victorian Canine Association).
For those interested, I will headline the main assumptions made and respond with the facts. The initial two allegations are explained in Factual points.
Some of the other main ‘issues’ are also verified.
The insults addressed can be referenced in any replies to me. Based on any private responses at my email address of - ibiza@bigpond.net.au and K9 forum “PMs” (private messages), I will elaborate further if necessary for clarification.
If future details beyond those dealt with in this reply are required, I will be glad to respond but not on this public forum.
[SIZE=14pt]HOODWINKING[/SIZE]
On 02 March 2006 at –
08:18 AM ‘Cartman’ accused a so called “whippet breeder” of removing a whippet from an old lady under false pretences.
09:42 AM ‘Angus’ stated that he had “He(a)rd that it was that well known puppy farmer from Victoria up to no good again.”
11:10 AM ‘Sue Delaney1’ stated “What do you want to know guys. About (a) ‘reputable’ elderly breeder (who) was hoodwinked and (had) her puppy reafed from her arms.”
11:30 AM Cartman posed a question “is it true that it took 2 male dog people to remove the whippet from the elderly lady?”
11:40 AM Sue Delaney1 stated “Yep there were 2 of them, One was waiting in the car to make the Black Hoodwinker tougher against the elderly ‘reputable’ breeder.”
From here on there were references and quotes from the above members to the lady having MS (Multiple Sclerosis), that the law and other authorities may know of the goings on of the Black Hoodwinker and references to me being the ‘Hoodwinker’.
Facts –
• The puppy eluded to above is - Baronrath Mahogany Rust ‘Rusty’, a male whippet born on 22 October 2005.
• Rusty was bred by Mrs Sue Sutherland who is indeed a very reputable breeder and All-Breeds judge.
• Mrs Sutherland registered Rusty on 29 December 2005 - Registration number 3100159235.
• On 04 January 2006 Dr Robert Kenney BVSc attended Mrs Sutherland’s property where he performed a vaccination on Rusty and micro-chipped him during that visit.
• On 05 January 2006, Mrs Sutherland arranged to meet me near Tullamarine Airport so that I could sign the papers to effect the micro-chip registration into my name. These forms were mailed by Mrs Sutherland to Dr Kenney who on-forwarded them to the Central Animal Registry (“C.A.R.”).
• When I met Mrs Sutherland she gave me the signed “Victorian Canine Association Inc. (‘VCA’) Application for Transfer of Registration of this Dog” form, pertaining to the transfer of the ownership of Rusty and I took Rusty home with me.
• On 10 January 2006, I lodged the form signed by Mrs Sutherland to transfer the ownership of Rusty into my name (ANKC certificate issued on 25 January 2006).
• Mrs Sutherland and I shared the care of Rusty until I collected him from her on 28 February 2006 whilst also delivering her some dog food samples that she had requested from me.
• The “other male” who accompanied me when I went to Mrs Sutherland’s is a mutual canine friend, a respected breeder, the husband of an All-Breeds Judge (and is a person who has MS).
So the truth of the matter is, I collected my dog, there was no ‘Hoodwinking’ nor any force involved in the matter and the other person was definitely not a thug. There was no “get-away” car either.
[SIZE=14pt]PUPPY FARMING[/SIZE]
On 02 March 2006 at 09:42 AM Angus referred to me as “that well known puppy farmer from Victoria”
Facts -
• In 2005 I sold 5 (five) puppies
• In 2004 I sold 9 (nine) puppies
Combined, this is 14 pups in 2 years; maybe hitting double digits makes me a Puppy “Factory”!
In 2002 and 2003 my first two years of breeding, I gave away more pups than I sold and was condemned at the time by other breeders who said that these homes would “not appreciate them”, however all of the puppies that were given away are still with those homes, are very well loved and very, very much appreciated.
I have only used the best available studs and in the few years that I have been involved in Whippets, I’ve yet to come across any “Puppy Farmer” that has been granted access to the calibre of dogs that I have used, let alone been able to justify or afford $2,500 to achieve a mating, to then offer only 3 (THREE) of the resulting pups for sale (from a litter of eight).
I have been made only too aware of who the actual Puppy Farmers are, even having to deal with their poorly allocated pups once the owners discovered what was involved in keeping their Whippet.
These Back-Yard breeders are only too happy to hand over a pup to the first person with $300-$500 and most of these pups are allocated to new owners over the phone, having never met these people or seen, let alone visited their premises.
I take extreme measures to ensure the very best of homes for all my puppies and have had high praise from their new owners.
I am known for not replying to most of my initial puppy calls or emails and even accused of being “too” selective. Only when I feel that I have genuinely found a potentially suitable home will I arrange initial visits, or at the very least get photos of the yard (for those living a distance away or interstate).
I get several good homes inquiring weekly and never have a problem finding exceptional homes for all my puppies and maturing dogs. I have also been able to use my network of enquiries to assist in placing many pups in wonderful homes for several other breeders.
I have never had a pup bred by me that has needed rescuing and have a ‘Puppy Policy’ (which can be viewed on my website) and an Agreement in place that each new home must abide by and follow to avoid any chance of this happening.
Many of my puppy visitors and eventual ‘pet’ puppy owners are known to the Honorary Secretary of The Whippet Association of Victoria Mrs Rae Mitchelson who will gladly attest to the glowing feed-back that she has received from these people about me.
Rae can also verify the fact that after dozens of visits, there has never been a negative aspect said about myself, the condition or temperament of my dogs and puppies, how they are housed or my premises. Rae can be emailed via the Club website - http://www.geocities.com/whippetvic/
Beyond regular visits from current and prospective puppy owners, I have had many other dog owner friends, including FCI & All-Breeds judges, Vets and fellow whippet breeders (some described as my ‘opposition’) visit regularly and even occasionally stay with me.
My primary veterinarian is the highly respected Dr Rob Kenney BVSc, known throughout the local canine world, who comes to my home often and can also be contacted to verify any concerns. My other vet of almost four years is Dr Linda Beer BVSc MACVSc and I can email a reference from her to anyone interested. One would suspect any unethical practices would’ve been unearthed and reported by now.
[SIZE=14pt]TROUBLE WITH AUTHORITIES[/SIZE]
I’m not sure what to make of the authorities mentioned. I have no criminal record and my police record consists of a speeding penalty incurred in 1996.
If the VCA (Victorian Canine Association) is the authority mentioned, then I need to clarify this too.
There have been two incidents.
• One was a pup owner who, having only requested and therefore been offered a “pet” pup, demanded Full Registration of his dog in his name.
As initially the pup was never destined to be shown or bred from, he’d mentioned no papers were wanted however, registration was issued in his name after he then expressed desires to show her.
In fact, his initial request was for a blue male, which was also never intended to be shown or bred from however, there was only a blue bitch available at the time and even though she wasn’t a consideration, he visited to see the pups anyway.
When the gentleman visited he decided that the bitch was appropriate and as I had already vetted this as being a wonderful home he was allocated the pup.
The gentleman is a very nice man, he is retired and takes active walks regularly so he was ideal, and because it was such a good home I gladly accepted half the amount I had been previously offered for a blue bitch.
After then expressing interest in showing her, I tried to help him but had explained that I would only want her shown if she was up to a certain standard. Unfortunately, the bitch was not of show quality and I did not want her shown, let alone bred from (also requested by her owner over a year later).
• In the other case, a black bitch puppy (given-away) was to be bred from once, then spayed. The bitch was not bred as she was de-sexed and transferred to her owner’s name on the Neutered Register.
As far as any other authority; maybe my local Municipal council..? If so; I had one isolated incident with a dog that I had bred and raised staying with me whilst his new owners were overseas (this is something I offer all my whippet owners, as I don’t want any dogs I’ve bred boarded in kennels).
The visiting dog, with two of my pups, attacked a neighbour’s (fluffy) dog on our street, outside my prior property. After thousands of dollars in vet bills, restitutions, legal fees and a court fine (of $100), the matter was resolved and no such reoccurrence has taken place.
I am not the only one who has had such an incident. Some whippet breeders seem to have a very short memory when it comes to things. It seems OK for their whippets to kill the next door pet but when one of my dogs is concerned it is blown out of all proportions and talked about as, “so much trouble with authorities”. Astounding..
[SIZE=14pt]THE RESCUES[/SIZE]
On 03 March 2006 at 01:35 AM ‘Seraphina’ wrote the following:
• “Dear me he has been busy, he has also tried to get 2 whippets from (a) young woman who due to domestic violence was desperately trying to re-home her dogs. I was not aware of his involvement when I rang her offering to mind her dogs for her until she can sort her life out. I went down and got these two girls. Later that night I received an “unpleasant” phone call from a person claiming that these 2 dogs were his, as they were promised to him by the club and the club representative was going to hand them over to him, within an hour from being picked up. This exchange was going to happen somewhere roadside half-way between his country residence and where these dogs were collected.
• That was despite (an) assurance from this “club representative” that the 2 girls will be kept in his house until (a) suitable well vetted home (was) found for them.
• This man never stops to amaze me with his arrogance.”
On 03 March 2006 at 03:06 AM ‘Mychaka’ wrote the following:
• “It is a shame that so many people have been hoodwinked by this breeder (and I think by now we all know who this thread is about).
• All I can say (is) it would be about time something (was) done – I think enough complaints have been made regarding this person, it’s time for some action.
• Really has done nothing for the whippet breed except made a living off them.
• Good on you Lida for homing those two girls. It’s a pity you have to put up with nasty phone calls – you did the right thing. If it was in the girls best interest for them to have a new home you would think that it wouldn’t matter who found the homes for them and at NO cost to the new owners.”
Here are the facts –
I was extremely moved by Nina’s email and started dialling her immediately. Her situation sounded so urgent that I offered to foster the whippets and come over that afternoon; however she could not see me till after 5pm the next day.
In the mean-time, a gentleman called Max (from Phillip Island) had spoken to Rae at our Club requesting a rescue. He was on acreage and having had several sight hounds for many years and currently with two dogs, he seemed like an appropriate home for BOTH of these de-sexed female whippets.
Nina was to call me before 5pm to verify directions to her house and Max was leaving his home after hearing from me.
Max was given Nina’s phone number by me to discuss the feeding and needs of the girls. We had arranged to meet in a secluded park area in a street off Stud Road, Dandenong at about 6.30pm.
Having to bring the girls all the way to Gisborne (north-west), only to be driven back down (most south-eastern point of our state) would have been unnecessary, beyond being a 6 hour round-trip for Max and this was all discussed with Nina.
In the mean time, Seraphina had telephoned Nina and collected the Girls.
Seraphina states that she did not know that the club and I were involved in re-homing these girls however she is logged as reading my post on 28 February 2006 where I state that the club had found 1 (ONE) home for BOTH girls that would enable them to stay together and she is logged on K9 (refer the history of her 5 (five) posts between my post on this subject (28 February 2006) and 02 March 2006 when she phoned Nina to collect the girls).
Not only this, but Nina also alerted Seraphina to the fact that the club had re-homed the girls, yet she still came and collected them.
Please refer to the posts on this subject in the “Whippet - General” forum (remember that the Club had found a home which it had vetted for the girls to go straight to which would keep them together, in the same state as Nina) and note that due to Seraphina’s actions:
• Both girls were not kept together.
• The first was re-homed and sent interstate.
• The second was not re-homed for over a week and was sent to Sydney as a home was not found in Victoria.
I also find it astonishing to think that the temporary homing of them in a suburban home (with no permit to keep dogs) which already has an adequate amount of existing dogs is not viewed as completely reprehensible and irresponsible.
What if the council had been notified by a disgruntled neighbour, one of whom has another two whippets running around an adjoining residential back yard, potentially causing extra noise problems that could lead to a complaint and potential impoundment of all the dogs?
As for the inference that maybe I gave out Seraphina’s number; I imagine that Nina must have given this out when Max rang to find out what had happened to the girls.
[SIZE=14pt]SEMEN COLLECTION OF VISITING DOG[/SIZE]
I’m not sure I could have sent such a precious dog to anyone overseas without having collected semen, let alone someone I have never met before. In my opinion (and many others it seems), this should have been done before leaving for Australia.
Discussed with several people at the time, there was no secret of my intention to collect semen, as I considered this the responsible thing to do.
It was collected for precautionary purposes as the dog was flying to Sydney for a while before being flown to New Zealand. The vet used is one of the most respected in his field and well-known in the canine world.
He was well aware of the dog’s actual name, owner and the reason for collection. He can confirm any of these details. I have many emails dealing with all this and am glad to send these to anyone who wants to see the facts in this case.
The semen was always intended to be the property of his owner. If I was going to collect for unethical purposes, I would have used a remote vet that was unknown and completely anonymous.
Maybe the dog would have been more “right” had I kept him in a plastic crate all day the way his owner had. If this was wrong of me, I’m sorry. Had I known that this was the requirement, I would have never accepted him in the first place.
Instead, he spent his days doing what he enjoyed, which was running around the house area and sleeping at my side. Every day with me was the best day possible for this dog. He was full of life and loved everything about it.
Things did not work out however, and he did not title. I was sorry for this. I really did the very best I could for him. He arrived with a pre-existing injury that I had serious guilt over, thinking that it may have been something acquired whilst with me.
After much stress, anguish, therapies and expense, it was discovered that this injury was from a lodged pebble incident that had happened before he arrived here. This story can be found among my prior posts (in my profile).
As far as tripling his stud fee - His fee was discussed with his owner and was set at $1,000 (it was to be $1,200 if titled).
I have several stud inquiries and documented correspondences which can prove all this and if anyone can show otherwise, I would be most interested to see their proof.
Are you really serious that I would have been telling people his stud fee was $3,000-3,600?? How absurd… As well as the rubbish of also wanting a pup from each litter.. how anyone could believe this is truly remarkable.
I didn’t even want a percentage of any potential stud fees. It was offered.
[SIZE=14pt]THAT REGRETTED LITTER[/SIZE]
This is a litter I never planned and would never have considered.
After searching for a while, there did not seem to be other stud available to this breeder and her initial request was for the use of one of my dogs. After asking “how much”, I offered my stud to her gratis, as she was considered a ‘friend’ at the time.
However, her chosen dog would not perform, even having been left there with her for several days, so I offered to pick him up after a show I was attending at KCC Park (near this breeder’s home).
The breeder was quite distraught and upset that she had not achieved a mating and I felt quite sorry for her. I had - Valdassa The Great Gabbo (“Gabbo”) with me at the time, having shown him at KCC Park that day and the breeder raised the possibility of using him instead.
Knowing Gian Zovi does not want Gabbo used by anyone else, she was unable to use Gabbo herself in her prefix. Knowing full well that Gian’s (only) condition was that all Gabbo’s first generation offspring stay in my name, it was agreed that he could be used as the stud. This is why they were registered in my prefix and only ever offered as “pets”.
She suggested that we (potentially) keep a pup each and fully agreed that the rest were to be sold only as pets. This is the ONLY reason she got this mating and there was no issue about this arrangement.
When suitable buyers were found and they confirmed that they did NOT want ‘papers’, the puppies were allocated and she collected the money.
I did not want any cash proceeds from this litter and the two pups kept were not shown more than a few times. One was later given away and the other sold to an amazing home with a Vet and her sister (for a nominal fee).
And yes; I am fully aware of the rules (now). My biggest concern at the time was maintaining the agreement I had with Gian.
This is why they only went to homes that wanted “pets with no papers”.
I was open to showing any promising ones as we thought one or two may have had some potential for this. I explained that because the owners didn’t want papers, agreeing to leave the pups in my name, they were able to be shown IF THEY WORKED OUT SUITABLY. Unfortunately, none of them did.
A year later certain persons started seeking-out the happy owners of these puppies and the owners were encouraged to pursue the issue of getting papers and told to report me for doing the wrong thing.
After I had found out that I had done the “wrong” thing with regard to the papers I contacted some of these owners personally and they still didn’t care about papers, their only concern was the fact that they had an amazing pup.
In some cases I had to insist on sending out the paperwork, there was never a complaint about the actual pup, instead, it was all made very personal by other people and turned into about how much I have “hurt” them.
[SIZE=14pt]In conclusion –[/SIZE]
Many of the more reputable breeders know what I have been through and been subjected to in the past, let alone what I’ve had to deal with recently.
Anyone linked on my site in Australia and some from overseas can be contacted for a personal reference. You can PM me anytime for copies of references from several leading local canine people.
It’s sad to think people all over the world can be potentially swayed by the presumptions of a select venomous few. Shame! Shame! Shame! – the lot of you.
Why do these people act so threatened?
I’ve been given various intriguing reasons by the genuine peers amongst us that know all too well of them (you) and their (your) antics and have experienced this type of behaviour from them (you) for much longer than I have.
Seems some things are destined never to change..
Finally, again for the record, I have not “made a living” out of breeding Whippets.
It would take me many years to make up the $85,000 that my family have invested in the breed and a decent breeding program, including new facilities and moving to an appropriate property to allow my dogs to have the proper space and environment that they require.
Surely there are no delusions out there that a ‘living’, let alone a ‘decent living’ can be made out of breeding dogs.
For the rest of the K9’ers; I too feel sorry these people feel so compelled to take such desperate measures and have chosen your forum to do it in.
I will be PM’ing certain members soon and looking forward to a direct chat.
COLIN SARANTIS
IBIZA WHIPPETS
www.blackwhippet.com
GISBORNE SOUTH
(near MELBOURNE)
AUSTRALIA
*POSTED TO THE UK k9 Community Website - “Whippet Showing” PORTAL PAGE*
OPEN LETTER RESPONSE TO ‘K9 Forum’ - “BLACK HOODWINKER” TOPIC
Can be vied and 'copied' at this link - K9 ‘Truth’ Page
*PERMISSION GRANTED TO CIRCULATE AND ‘CROSS POST’ IN ITS ENTIRETY*
What a deplorable display and abuse of a public medium this has become; it is indeed very black times for the whippet world.
It seems that those involved really have outdone themselves and it’s been disappointing to see the lapsed Moderation.
Prior to venting opinions on this forum it would be helpful if everyone were to review the agreements that they have entered into for membership of this group and as members of their respective state affiliate to the ‘ANKC’ Australian National Kennel Council (“..shall not bring fellow members into disrepute..”)
A quick reminder for us all, the rules for the K9 Forum are:
• No trolling.
Don't make posts that are inflammatory just to get people riled up. Substance is the key to not being labeled a troll.
• Personal attacks are not welcome.
Criticise ideas, not people. Flaming will not be tolerated.
No member or Moderator is allowed to engage in public personal attacks on any other member or Moderator.
Personal attacks are defined as Personal, Racial, Ethnic, and/or Gender based insults, slurs, or derisive comments.
This forum is intended as a means for wholesome interaction between people who enjoy similar interests; mainly, the welfare and betterment of the Whippet breed, not as an avenue to spread malicious gossip and slander an individual.
It will never cease to amaze me how one human being will behave towards another and how retaliative actions manifest in those desperate to chop-down anyone who stands-out in any way.
It’s worrying to think the K9 members involved in the posts over the past few weeks have chosen to alarm others and have done this quite effectively, with unsubstantiated claims and without any direct knowledge or factual proof.
I had prepared this reply 10 days ago, however after numerous revisions to this letter, I had decided against posting any reply and was prepared to let it go. After talking to many of my friends, some of whom are fellow breeders, I was advised not to ‘bite-back’, but following the recent round of posts, I’ve decided enough really is enough.
For the record, I have 22 dogs. All are kept in peak form and are happy and healthy. My pups are maintained in excellent condition and are well socialised and outgoing. I have never bred from the same bitch more than once, nor would I ever allow any mating of a bitch to contravene Regulations.
If anyone had any real apprehension over the welfare of my dogs and pups, they should have directed these concerns to the RSPCA (Royal Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals) or the ‘VCA’ (Victorian Canine Association).
For those interested, I will headline the main assumptions made and respond with the facts. The initial two allegations are explained in Factual points.
Some of the other main ‘issues’ are also verified.
The insults addressed can be referenced in any replies to me. Based on any private responses at my email address of - ibiza@bigpond.net.au and K9 forum “PMs” (private messages), I will elaborate further if necessary for clarification.
If future details beyond those dealt with in this reply are required, I will be glad to respond but not on this public forum.
[SIZE=14pt]HOODWINKING[/SIZE]
On 02 March 2006 at –
08:18 AM ‘Cartman’ accused a so called “whippet breeder” of removing a whippet from an old lady under false pretences.
09:42 AM ‘Angus’ stated that he had “He(a)rd that it was that well known puppy farmer from Victoria up to no good again.”
11:10 AM ‘Sue Delaney1’ stated “What do you want to know guys. About (a) ‘reputable’ elderly breeder (who) was hoodwinked and (had) her puppy reafed from her arms.”
11:30 AM Cartman posed a question “is it true that it took 2 male dog people to remove the whippet from the elderly lady?”
11:40 AM Sue Delaney1 stated “Yep there were 2 of them, One was waiting in the car to make the Black Hoodwinker tougher against the elderly ‘reputable’ breeder.”
From here on there were references and quotes from the above members to the lady having MS (Multiple Sclerosis), that the law and other authorities may know of the goings on of the Black Hoodwinker and references to me being the ‘Hoodwinker’.
Facts –
• The puppy eluded to above is - Baronrath Mahogany Rust ‘Rusty’, a male whippet born on 22 October 2005.
• Rusty was bred by Mrs Sue Sutherland who is indeed a very reputable breeder and All-Breeds judge.
• Mrs Sutherland registered Rusty on 29 December 2005 - Registration number 3100159235.
• On 04 January 2006 Dr Robert Kenney BVSc attended Mrs Sutherland’s property where he performed a vaccination on Rusty and micro-chipped him during that visit.
• On 05 January 2006, Mrs Sutherland arranged to meet me near Tullamarine Airport so that I could sign the papers to effect the micro-chip registration into my name. These forms were mailed by Mrs Sutherland to Dr Kenney who on-forwarded them to the Central Animal Registry (“C.A.R.”).
• When I met Mrs Sutherland she gave me the signed “Victorian Canine Association Inc. (‘VCA’) Application for Transfer of Registration of this Dog” form, pertaining to the transfer of the ownership of Rusty and I took Rusty home with me.
• On 10 January 2006, I lodged the form signed by Mrs Sutherland to transfer the ownership of Rusty into my name (ANKC certificate issued on 25 January 2006).
• Mrs Sutherland and I shared the care of Rusty until I collected him from her on 28 February 2006 whilst also delivering her some dog food samples that she had requested from me.
• The “other male” who accompanied me when I went to Mrs Sutherland’s is a mutual canine friend, a respected breeder, the husband of an All-Breeds Judge (and is a person who has MS).
So the truth of the matter is, I collected my dog, there was no ‘Hoodwinking’ nor any force involved in the matter and the other person was definitely not a thug. There was no “get-away” car either.
[SIZE=14pt]PUPPY FARMING[/SIZE]
On 02 March 2006 at 09:42 AM Angus referred to me as “that well known puppy farmer from Victoria”
Facts -
• In 2005 I sold 5 (five) puppies
• In 2004 I sold 9 (nine) puppies
Combined, this is 14 pups in 2 years; maybe hitting double digits makes me a Puppy “Factory”!
In 2002 and 2003 my first two years of breeding, I gave away more pups than I sold and was condemned at the time by other breeders who said that these homes would “not appreciate them”, however all of the puppies that were given away are still with those homes, are very well loved and very, very much appreciated.
I have only used the best available studs and in the few years that I have been involved in Whippets, I’ve yet to come across any “Puppy Farmer” that has been granted access to the calibre of dogs that I have used, let alone been able to justify or afford $2,500 to achieve a mating, to then offer only 3 (THREE) of the resulting pups for sale (from a litter of eight).
I have been made only too aware of who the actual Puppy Farmers are, even having to deal with their poorly allocated pups once the owners discovered what was involved in keeping their Whippet.
These Back-Yard breeders are only too happy to hand over a pup to the first person with $300-$500 and most of these pups are allocated to new owners over the phone, having never met these people or seen, let alone visited their premises.
I take extreme measures to ensure the very best of homes for all my puppies and have had high praise from their new owners.
I am known for not replying to most of my initial puppy calls or emails and even accused of being “too” selective. Only when I feel that I have genuinely found a potentially suitable home will I arrange initial visits, or at the very least get photos of the yard (for those living a distance away or interstate).
I get several good homes inquiring weekly and never have a problem finding exceptional homes for all my puppies and maturing dogs. I have also been able to use my network of enquiries to assist in placing many pups in wonderful homes for several other breeders.
I have never had a pup bred by me that has needed rescuing and have a ‘Puppy Policy’ (which can be viewed on my website) and an Agreement in place that each new home must abide by and follow to avoid any chance of this happening.
Many of my puppy visitors and eventual ‘pet’ puppy owners are known to the Honorary Secretary of The Whippet Association of Victoria Mrs Rae Mitchelson who will gladly attest to the glowing feed-back that she has received from these people about me.
Rae can also verify the fact that after dozens of visits, there has never been a negative aspect said about myself, the condition or temperament of my dogs and puppies, how they are housed or my premises. Rae can be emailed via the Club website - http://www.geocities.com/whippetvic/
Beyond regular visits from current and prospective puppy owners, I have had many other dog owner friends, including FCI & All-Breeds judges, Vets and fellow whippet breeders (some described as my ‘opposition’) visit regularly and even occasionally stay with me.
My primary veterinarian is the highly respected Dr Rob Kenney BVSc, known throughout the local canine world, who comes to my home often and can also be contacted to verify any concerns. My other vet of almost four years is Dr Linda Beer BVSc MACVSc and I can email a reference from her to anyone interested. One would suspect any unethical practices would’ve been unearthed and reported by now.
[SIZE=14pt]TROUBLE WITH AUTHORITIES[/SIZE]
I’m not sure what to make of the authorities mentioned. I have no criminal record and my police record consists of a speeding penalty incurred in 1996.
If the VCA (Victorian Canine Association) is the authority mentioned, then I need to clarify this too.
There have been two incidents.
• One was a pup owner who, having only requested and therefore been offered a “pet” pup, demanded Full Registration of his dog in his name.
As initially the pup was never destined to be shown or bred from, he’d mentioned no papers were wanted however, registration was issued in his name after he then expressed desires to show her.
In fact, his initial request was for a blue male, which was also never intended to be shown or bred from however, there was only a blue bitch available at the time and even though she wasn’t a consideration, he visited to see the pups anyway.
When the gentleman visited he decided that the bitch was appropriate and as I had already vetted this as being a wonderful home he was allocated the pup.
The gentleman is a very nice man, he is retired and takes active walks regularly so he was ideal, and because it was such a good home I gladly accepted half the amount I had been previously offered for a blue bitch.
After then expressing interest in showing her, I tried to help him but had explained that I would only want her shown if she was up to a certain standard. Unfortunately, the bitch was not of show quality and I did not want her shown, let alone bred from (also requested by her owner over a year later).
• In the other case, a black bitch puppy (given-away) was to be bred from once, then spayed. The bitch was not bred as she was de-sexed and transferred to her owner’s name on the Neutered Register.
As far as any other authority; maybe my local Municipal council..? If so; I had one isolated incident with a dog that I had bred and raised staying with me whilst his new owners were overseas (this is something I offer all my whippet owners, as I don’t want any dogs I’ve bred boarded in kennels).
The visiting dog, with two of my pups, attacked a neighbour’s (fluffy) dog on our street, outside my prior property. After thousands of dollars in vet bills, restitutions, legal fees and a court fine (of $100), the matter was resolved and no such reoccurrence has taken place.
I am not the only one who has had such an incident. Some whippet breeders seem to have a very short memory when it comes to things. It seems OK for their whippets to kill the next door pet but when one of my dogs is concerned it is blown out of all proportions and talked about as, “so much trouble with authorities”. Astounding..
[SIZE=14pt]THE RESCUES[/SIZE]
On 03 March 2006 at 01:35 AM ‘Seraphina’ wrote the following:
• “Dear me he has been busy, he has also tried to get 2 whippets from (a) young woman who due to domestic violence was desperately trying to re-home her dogs. I was not aware of his involvement when I rang her offering to mind her dogs for her until she can sort her life out. I went down and got these two girls. Later that night I received an “unpleasant” phone call from a person claiming that these 2 dogs were his, as they were promised to him by the club and the club representative was going to hand them over to him, within an hour from being picked up. This exchange was going to happen somewhere roadside half-way between his country residence and where these dogs were collected.
• That was despite (an) assurance from this “club representative” that the 2 girls will be kept in his house until (a) suitable well vetted home (was) found for them.
• This man never stops to amaze me with his arrogance.”
On 03 March 2006 at 03:06 AM ‘Mychaka’ wrote the following:
• “It is a shame that so many people have been hoodwinked by this breeder (and I think by now we all know who this thread is about).
• All I can say (is) it would be about time something (was) done – I think enough complaints have been made regarding this person, it’s time for some action.
• Really has done nothing for the whippet breed except made a living off them.
• Good on you Lida for homing those two girls. It’s a pity you have to put up with nasty phone calls – you did the right thing. If it was in the girls best interest for them to have a new home you would think that it wouldn’t matter who found the homes for them and at NO cost to the new owners.”
Here are the facts –
I was extremely moved by Nina’s email and started dialling her immediately. Her situation sounded so urgent that I offered to foster the whippets and come over that afternoon; however she could not see me till after 5pm the next day.
In the mean-time, a gentleman called Max (from Phillip Island) had spoken to Rae at our Club requesting a rescue. He was on acreage and having had several sight hounds for many years and currently with two dogs, he seemed like an appropriate home for BOTH of these de-sexed female whippets.
Nina was to call me before 5pm to verify directions to her house and Max was leaving his home after hearing from me.
Max was given Nina’s phone number by me to discuss the feeding and needs of the girls. We had arranged to meet in a secluded park area in a street off Stud Road, Dandenong at about 6.30pm.
Having to bring the girls all the way to Gisborne (north-west), only to be driven back down (most south-eastern point of our state) would have been unnecessary, beyond being a 6 hour round-trip for Max and this was all discussed with Nina.
In the mean time, Seraphina had telephoned Nina and collected the Girls.
Seraphina states that she did not know that the club and I were involved in re-homing these girls however she is logged as reading my post on 28 February 2006 where I state that the club had found 1 (ONE) home for BOTH girls that would enable them to stay together and she is logged on K9 (refer the history of her 5 (five) posts between my post on this subject (28 February 2006) and 02 March 2006 when she phoned Nina to collect the girls).
Not only this, but Nina also alerted Seraphina to the fact that the club had re-homed the girls, yet she still came and collected them.
Please refer to the posts on this subject in the “Whippet - General” forum (remember that the Club had found a home which it had vetted for the girls to go straight to which would keep them together, in the same state as Nina) and note that due to Seraphina’s actions:
• Both girls were not kept together.
• The first was re-homed and sent interstate.
• The second was not re-homed for over a week and was sent to Sydney as a home was not found in Victoria.
I also find it astonishing to think that the temporary homing of them in a suburban home (with no permit to keep dogs) which already has an adequate amount of existing dogs is not viewed as completely reprehensible and irresponsible.
What if the council had been notified by a disgruntled neighbour, one of whom has another two whippets running around an adjoining residential back yard, potentially causing extra noise problems that could lead to a complaint and potential impoundment of all the dogs?
As for the inference that maybe I gave out Seraphina’s number; I imagine that Nina must have given this out when Max rang to find out what had happened to the girls.
[SIZE=14pt]SEMEN COLLECTION OF VISITING DOG[/SIZE]
I’m not sure I could have sent such a precious dog to anyone overseas without having collected semen, let alone someone I have never met before. In my opinion (and many others it seems), this should have been done before leaving for Australia.
Discussed with several people at the time, there was no secret of my intention to collect semen, as I considered this the responsible thing to do.
It was collected for precautionary purposes as the dog was flying to Sydney for a while before being flown to New Zealand. The vet used is one of the most respected in his field and well-known in the canine world.
He was well aware of the dog’s actual name, owner and the reason for collection. He can confirm any of these details. I have many emails dealing with all this and am glad to send these to anyone who wants to see the facts in this case.
The semen was always intended to be the property of his owner. If I was going to collect for unethical purposes, I would have used a remote vet that was unknown and completely anonymous.
Maybe the dog would have been more “right” had I kept him in a plastic crate all day the way his owner had. If this was wrong of me, I’m sorry. Had I known that this was the requirement, I would have never accepted him in the first place.
Instead, he spent his days doing what he enjoyed, which was running around the house area and sleeping at my side. Every day with me was the best day possible for this dog. He was full of life and loved everything about it.
Things did not work out however, and he did not title. I was sorry for this. I really did the very best I could for him. He arrived with a pre-existing injury that I had serious guilt over, thinking that it may have been something acquired whilst with me.
After much stress, anguish, therapies and expense, it was discovered that this injury was from a lodged pebble incident that had happened before he arrived here. This story can be found among my prior posts (in my profile).
As far as tripling his stud fee - His fee was discussed with his owner and was set at $1,000 (it was to be $1,200 if titled).
I have several stud inquiries and documented correspondences which can prove all this and if anyone can show otherwise, I would be most interested to see their proof.
Are you really serious that I would have been telling people his stud fee was $3,000-3,600?? How absurd… As well as the rubbish of also wanting a pup from each litter.. how anyone could believe this is truly remarkable.
I didn’t even want a percentage of any potential stud fees. It was offered.
[SIZE=14pt]THAT REGRETTED LITTER[/SIZE]
This is a litter I never planned and would never have considered.
After searching for a while, there did not seem to be other stud available to this breeder and her initial request was for the use of one of my dogs. After asking “how much”, I offered my stud to her gratis, as she was considered a ‘friend’ at the time.
However, her chosen dog would not perform, even having been left there with her for several days, so I offered to pick him up after a show I was attending at KCC Park (near this breeder’s home).
The breeder was quite distraught and upset that she had not achieved a mating and I felt quite sorry for her. I had - Valdassa The Great Gabbo (“Gabbo”) with me at the time, having shown him at KCC Park that day and the breeder raised the possibility of using him instead.
Knowing Gian Zovi does not want Gabbo used by anyone else, she was unable to use Gabbo herself in her prefix. Knowing full well that Gian’s (only) condition was that all Gabbo’s first generation offspring stay in my name, it was agreed that he could be used as the stud. This is why they were registered in my prefix and only ever offered as “pets”.
She suggested that we (potentially) keep a pup each and fully agreed that the rest were to be sold only as pets. This is the ONLY reason she got this mating and there was no issue about this arrangement.
When suitable buyers were found and they confirmed that they did NOT want ‘papers’, the puppies were allocated and she collected the money.
I did not want any cash proceeds from this litter and the two pups kept were not shown more than a few times. One was later given away and the other sold to an amazing home with a Vet and her sister (for a nominal fee).
And yes; I am fully aware of the rules (now). My biggest concern at the time was maintaining the agreement I had with Gian.
This is why they only went to homes that wanted “pets with no papers”.
I was open to showing any promising ones as we thought one or two may have had some potential for this. I explained that because the owners didn’t want papers, agreeing to leave the pups in my name, they were able to be shown IF THEY WORKED OUT SUITABLY. Unfortunately, none of them did.
A year later certain persons started seeking-out the happy owners of these puppies and the owners were encouraged to pursue the issue of getting papers and told to report me for doing the wrong thing.
After I had found out that I had done the “wrong” thing with regard to the papers I contacted some of these owners personally and they still didn’t care about papers, their only concern was the fact that they had an amazing pup.
In some cases I had to insist on sending out the paperwork, there was never a complaint about the actual pup, instead, it was all made very personal by other people and turned into about how much I have “hurt” them.
[SIZE=14pt]In conclusion –[/SIZE]
Many of the more reputable breeders know what I have been through and been subjected to in the past, let alone what I’ve had to deal with recently.
Anyone linked on my site in Australia and some from overseas can be contacted for a personal reference. You can PM me anytime for copies of references from several leading local canine people.
It’s sad to think people all over the world can be potentially swayed by the presumptions of a select venomous few. Shame! Shame! Shame! – the lot of you.
Why do these people act so threatened?
I’ve been given various intriguing reasons by the genuine peers amongst us that know all too well of them (you) and their (your) antics and have experienced this type of behaviour from them (you) for much longer than I have.
Seems some things are destined never to change..
Finally, again for the record, I have not “made a living” out of breeding Whippets.
It would take me many years to make up the $85,000 that my family have invested in the breed and a decent breeding program, including new facilities and moving to an appropriate property to allow my dogs to have the proper space and environment that they require.
Surely there are no delusions out there that a ‘living’, let alone a ‘decent living’ can be made out of breeding dogs.
For the rest of the K9’ers; I too feel sorry these people feel so compelled to take such desperate measures and have chosen your forum to do it in.
I will be PM’ing certain members soon and looking forward to a direct chat.
COLIN SARANTIS
IBIZA WHIPPETS
www.blackwhippet.com
GISBORNE SOUTH
(near MELBOURNE)
AUSTRALIA
*POSTED TO THE UK k9 Community Website - “Whippet Showing” PORTAL PAGE*
