The Most Dog Friendly Community Online
Join and Discover the Best Things to do with your Dog

Welcome to Our Community
Wanting to join the rest of our members? Feel free to sign up today.

Training naughty puppy while naughty toddler is around.

Discussion in 'Dog Behaviour and Training' started by Op1990, Jan 15, 2020.

Tags:
  1. Op1990

    Op1990 New Member Registered

    Messages:
    1
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    Hi everyone I'm not sure this is the right place to be posting this so apologies if not. I've recently bought a jack russel puppy who now is currently 11 weeks old, we all love him to pieces but I'm finding it very difficult to try and train him and keep him out of trouble as I've also got a 2 year old always around who can be really challenging, it seems that everything I try and do to teach the pup is becoming undone within seconds because of my 2 year old and other two older children. I've had dogs all my life from when I was a child myself at home with my parents ive never not had a dog in my life so I'm not new to training dogs, but now I've recently moved in with my partner and child so it's the first dog I've had where I'm solely the main person looking after and training him, but I've also never had to try and train a puppy with children around, so finding it very difficult and stressful where Im beginning to get to the point where I'm starting to think maybe I should think about rehoming him. Now I know some will say maybe you should focus on your parenting skills more than your puppy if you have naughty kids but I'm not here for advice on that. I've got a challenging 2 year old daughter, and I've taken my partners two children on from previous relationship which one of them has autism. I'm just a dad trying to do his best and get a bit of advice or tips from someone who has been on a similar sort of situation. Sorry about the life story and thanks to anyone in advance.
     
  2. Store
  3. JoanneF

    JoanneF Well-Known Member Registered

    Messages:
    3,737
    Likes Received:
    3,324
    Trophy Points:
    113
    First, your puppy isn't being naughty deliberately - whatever he is doing is in some way rewarding to him. There are three main reasons why a dog doesn't do as we ask. First (and most likely in a small pup) he simply doesn't understand what you are asking. Second (also a possibility but lower than the first reason) the reward/motivation of doing what he is already doing isn't as great as the reward/motivation to do what you are asking. Third (not likely in puppies) is that you are working against a deeply rooted breed trait.

    Why don't you tell us what you are trying to get him to do and what methods you are using,we have some members here with a lot of expertise who may be able to help.
     
  4. DixD

    DixD Guest

    I’ve not been in that situation, but have had a lot of different pups through the years, mainly as I’ve found a pup can fit into into a settled multi dog household more easily, often, than a mature dog. And also it’s easier to train a dog from young for agility. But, I’ve found it a very intensive time, like having a new baby in the household, and I’d find it a challenge doing so, with several young children too. I have no experience of JRTs, but, as terriers, I imagine they are intelligent, feisty, full of energy, sometimes stubborn, and pretty independent. So, it sounds like it could be quite a difficult period, BY ANYONE’S RECKONING, and worth bearing in mind. I’m not sure about this, but I think I read somewhere that the first 12 weeks of a pup’s life is a formative period, when it adapts to things, and it is away from its natural litter lifestyle, so will be quite stressed itself, which can make the process more difficult.
     
  5. JudyN

    JudyN Moderator Moderator Registered

    Messages:
    4,500
    Likes Received:
    5,968
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Hang on to this bit - you do have a lot on your plate! My feeling is that for now, you need to focus mostly on management (of the dog and the toddler) rather than training, beyond the basics, and focusing on the essential things - house training, enabling the dog to settle in a quiet place for a period of time, preventing the child from hurting/stressing the dog. Stairgates & playpens, both for your dog and your daughter, could be very helpful. The danger is that if your daughter (or one of the other children) hurts or scares the dog, the dog could develop to be fearful and possibly snappy.
     
    niamh123, Ari_RR and Finsky like this.
  6. Catharina Hjorth

    Catharina Hjorth New Member Registered

    Messages:
    15
    Likes Received:
    11
    Trophy Points:
    3
    Hang in there!
    Your pup is still very young and right now it seems nearly impossible to teach him anything - especially with children around.

    I don't have children, but when I lived at home we brought an 8 month old "puppy" into our house, when my sister was only 2 years old. Good luck teaching the dog not to beg at the table, when food "magically" keeps dropping down from above... So I do understand where you're coming from.
    I would advice you to - as much as your probably busy schedule allows - train with the puppy without the children nearby. Just small things like sit, lie down etc. to establish a bond.
    Hereafter it's important to give the puppy a place to call its own - cagetraining might be very relevant to your dog, especially as terriers tend to be quite energetic and easily stressed dogs. That will allow the dog to have a "safespace" as well as having a place where you can send the dog when its all becoming a bit much.

    Lastly, I would recommend talking to your/your partners kids. Make them involved (maybe not the youngest of course) even with small things, like teaching the dog sit or wait - quite simple exercises for both children and dog. It will make the children feel involved and perhaps mean they will be more inclined to cooperate with other aspects of training.

    It's still a very very young puppy, it will get better with time. Try and hang in there a bit longer :)
     
    niamh123 and Finsky like this.
  7. Finsky

    Finsky Well-Known Member Registered

    Messages:
    568
    Likes Received:
    425
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Hi...
    About terriers.. Don't be too concern about hard core instructive training that instruct same commands over and over again. They are intelligent dogs on their own right but they tend to have VERY selective hearing for instructions.
    So any 'training' you do is more of directing their behaviour and distraction technique.
    You may tell them when you don't like them doing something but same time, divert their attention towards something else you wish them rather do. If you insist them not to do something..you will be in lock heads situation with them and they are damned to do just as they want...and that's where the terrier stubbornness will come to play. :rolleyes:
    So you have to more stubborn showing with your 'this way we do things' way of life ...if the ways they are doing things is not a bother, don't insist for sake of doing it differently. Terriers will use their brains (eventually)...let it figure things out its own time and do some problem solving. They soon figure out what you wish them to do and what is expected from them and if you are highly delighted and show it when they get things right, they are much likely to do it so in future too.
    Talk to you pup a lot...just like to human child...express your feelings often and they will figure our rest and will be keen to please you. Something very simple like as your pup sits next to your ankle...give it a small touch and say 'that's nice' without making any further number for it...instruct with your feelings about anything and everything with small little pleased sighs/words and it will turn out to be a dog that takes notice of you and what you like from them. Often they take more notice of the quiet ways than yelling or sharp telling off.
    If it grabs something you don't want...don't chase it...take something else into your hand that might grab its interest and like magician tease its full attention toward that object while your other hand calmly 'pick pocket' the thing you don't want it have or to do ;)
    Some things you need to be firm and show and tell with firm 'a-a' or 'no' noises is when they want to do puppy biting, clawing or when they truly are getting too much out of hand. Terrier play often is VERY boisterous....so make sure it has lots of toys to play with (and destroy). They are bred to be hunters and some have more stronger hunting instinct than others and it can start showing signs at any age.
    I can't advise how you would combine this when bringing up a small child as well...but if it would be me, I probably bring up both as I would be the terrier...o_O:rolleyes::eek::D:p For some extent they will always test your boundaries but you are consistent with your instructions for rest of their lives (where it truly matters), once they've figured out the rules they will carry on doing so...but with terriers, if you relax they will 'relax' too and you will be soon find you are back in square one again.
    This might be something you come across with yours..
    Both of my pups but one particularly had a issues for not sleeping/resting (often) enough, but she would play itself to exhaustion and then be very naughty and boisterous and have 'tantrums'. Once I figured out what the issue was...I had to adjust her play time with regular rest breaks. Starting first with 5-10 mins in a cage (to calm down) and then I would open the door and she would either have option to come into room with child gate on to stay that particular room or carry on in cage (her choise). More often than not she would just open one eye to take notice what I've done but carry on sleeping where she was. Once she'd had her nap, she would be back being nice and 'naughty' pup again. To me that behaviour was very human child like...getting over tired and then having tantrums.
    It was a case only first couple of months like that and then she would start napping more and regulate her own activity levels..before that it was either 'all or nothing'.
    Terriers can be VERY exciteable (that is under statement), so if yours show that tendency and you don't want it encourage it..particularly when you have a child too. Keep the more energetic playing with her in restrictive area in house and outdoors only. Try to keep the most of the energetic play that it is you that start it...that way it send message that you are in charge when it is acceptable to play those games. You might want to do it during walks or as a reward at the end of walk only and keep 'in home time' as lower energy/calm time. But then it means you will have to keep on to those regular play & walk times as the pup will grow up and its energy levels with it.
    Yep...I feel you might have some fun times ahead and work cut out...but it will be enjoyable and it will eventually calm down...it takes just a few years and then you child can take over the duties.:cool:
    Oh and to add....please don't make to puppy to do all the hard work of having to adjust and learn...your children needs to know too what is acceptable behaviour around the dog as well. It would be unfair to expect the full responsibily of good behaviour and success from the pup only if the children are challenging it.
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2020
    niamh123, john allen and Mayblossom like this.
  8. Finsky

    Finsky Well-Known Member Registered

    Messages:
    568
    Likes Received:
    425
    Trophy Points:
    63
    I had already turned computer off and on my way to bed, but I couldn't stop thinking of your post and thoughr of something else that I feel is important to add.
    "bringing up puppy around toddler"... It is important that you also show your affections to each while other is around. Essentially your pup is just another 'toddler' and you are bringing up another family member. So even they might not fully understand what you are doing when carrying other one around or doing the kisses and cuddles. But they are registering it all and as it comes as norm in your household, they learn to accept each other almost as 'siblings' (as much as it is possible). Be fair with each so attention seeking does not become a issue. Yes, your pup is dog and has certain amount of different traits and needs, but also they have so much similarities, so in my head, my previous comment about bringing your terrier and child 'same way' kind of does make sense. Once their basic needs are met...showed how to do the toileting, learning how to going on with walking and playing, nourished with appropriate diet, allowed them to develop and show their personality, given love and affection..rest will follow in it is own time. Both will learn as they grow up, when they are ready and we just guide that development ;)
    Right..I better pack up and come down from my high horse before I go right over the top :rolleyes: I'm sure you will be able to get what I'm trying to say with these million words.
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2020
    niamh123 and Mayblossom like this.
  9. DixD

    DixD Guest

    I think this is quite a complicated situation, further complicated by, what I understand, I wasn’t sure, is a child with autism, basically a different way of thinking, in the family. I know, from a previous thread, there are members who have autistic children and dogs, and may have some advice to offer from their experiences. I think the thread was about a collie pup, who was very stressed, and ended up being rehomed (the rehoming was a separate thread, and I think this is where the OP mentioned his daughter was autistic). Josie, the moderator, may be able to provide a link to this thread , @Josie.
     
  10. Finsky

    Finsky Well-Known Member Registered

    Messages:
    568
    Likes Received:
    425
    Trophy Points:
    63
    It is complicated indeed. I don't say it cannot be done, after all other children (or the family in general) often do adapt to live with complications, so do dogs & puppies but it will take huge amount of energy and patience to find the way that makes it all work. Maybe the patience is one of the biggest lessons as pup's learning may show slow progress and in mean while it may create issues of its own. But with best effort they will catch up and get there.
    I have 'puppy trained' older dog, she was 1.5 years old when I got her, lived most of her life until then in a cage but she turned into lovely girl, admitedly it took some time and lots of understanding and patience.
    Maybe the original poste will have to result to a partial separation of the dog from the kids..still proceed to 'normal' training and eventually when the pup is older..it will be able to think to itself and realize there is special circumstances with autistic child in play. I am not trying to instruct how the poster should deal with other children, but as I already mentioned...they need to agree and learn to behave differently for puppy to have a chance to succeed in the family.
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2020
  11. john allen

    john allen New Member Registered

    Messages:
    14
    Likes Received:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    3
    Wow you have certainly have a challenging situation and some great advice has already been given from other members. My own experience with Jack Russell terriers is somewhat limited, coming from friends who have had them.
    They are very energetic and excitable dogs and as a result can be quite challenging to train. They are highly intelligent and love to please like most terriers, but when trained they make excellent companions, like the Border Terrier I currently look after.
    You appear to have been involved with the training of other dogs in your life, so please excuse me if I mention any thing you already know.
    It is most important that you get your JR. to begin listening to you as soon as you can, knowing the difference between what is acceptable and unacceptable behaviour.( voice expressions - praise being extremely important) All dogs are naturally pack animals and you are the leader of their pack and you need to establish yourself as this, again as soon as you can in order to get your JR listening to you. Then you can begin more formal behavioural training, including playtime. Love and respect on both sides is key.
    You obviously have a lot on your hands and training your JR will require patience, time and tolerance. This will no doubt involve you scheduling in a daily slot for this, which could form part of the daily walks.
    No doubt you will want to include your children in this as well, once you have bonded well with your JR and have it listening to you.
    Hope this helps in someway. The best of luck.
     
    Finsky likes this.
  12. Finsky

    Finsky Well-Known Member Registered

    Messages:
    568
    Likes Received:
    425
    Trophy Points:
    63
    LOL....your comment to 'get it listen first' made me laugh. Yes, indeed that. There is period of time that the pup does not take much notice of us and our talk. But regardless it is a stage that will we will still have to carry on regardless and eventually there come that moment of time they actually look at us amazed ..'are you talking to me!?'. Once that 'contact' into their brain is made...then like you said...they will take notice us.
    I've had couple of JRs..though not from pup and they showed surprising amount of independent thinking...it just needed to encouraged and not forced to come into end result what would make us lot of sense. (I'm going ahead now and it is not relevant to his post...but oh the stories I could tell :rolleyes::D)
    I think the life with terriers more of as...'I'm the teacher and I'm teaching the dogs their basic boundaries...if they behave within those limits...anything else goes and I'm not too bothered'. To me it is depressing to see over trained and corrected terrier that is not allowed to show its natural cheeky character.
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2020
    john allen likes this.
  13. DixD

    DixD Guest

    JRTs were the “go to” dog for mini agility at one time because they’re so quick, agile and intelligent. And then I think Borders took over. They have retained the real working dog ethos, and seem happy when they have a job to do, whatever that may be. I didn’t realise wee dogs could jump horizontally about 4 ft in the air, till I saw a couple of JRTs, in the local RSPCA, who couldn’t see over the bottom half of the door, leaping up and down!
     
    niamh123, john allen and Finsky like this.
  14. Josie

    Josie Administrator Administrator Registered

    Messages:
    3,508
    Likes Received:
    3,329
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I’ll have a look but lots of threads so may be a bit tricky!
     
  15. DixD

    DixD Guest

    thanks,Josie. I think it was a couple of weeks ago. :)
     
  16. niamh123

    niamh123 Well-Known Member Registered

    Messages:
    358
    Likes Received:
    270
    Trophy Points:
    63
    I have a JRT and a daughter with Autism when we got him as an 8 week old pup 4 years ago my daughter was quite distant towards him but she had recently lost her best friend Travis a Curlycoated retriever her best friend and was still grieving after him.I did all Floyds training when my kids weren't around if it was only a 10 min session,he was also allowed off lead excersize from 8 weeks old Niamh now loves him although Liam is her favourite as she chose him the 2 of them are never apart and although he is still classed as a puppy (16 months ) he will go deaf when we are training him but listens to everything Niamh asks.I would take things slow with your puppy do little and often when the children are not around even if it's when the kids are in bed or eating their meals,once something is learnt by a JRT they won't forget:) jr.jpg
     
    JoanneF and Finsky like this.
  17. Teddy560

    Teddy560 Well-Known Member Registered

    Messages:
    282
    Likes Received:
    274
    Trophy Points:
    63
    I'm not going to lie, it is difficult. We got Ted when my children were 1 and 3. My youngest used to stand at the window crying when I took him out for the toilet :confused: we had a crate and a stairgate across the kitchen for when we all needed a break from each other. Ted was a very full-on puppy too... till he was about 1:p. So maybe just focus on the absolute necessary training for now (I.e. toilet training) and put some measures in place where puppy and kids can have a break from each other?
     
    Biker John and Finsky like this.
  18. john allen

    john allen New Member Registered

    Messages:
    14
    Likes Received:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    3
    How are things progressing now? Training puppies as I am sure you know requires consistency, patience and tolerance and together with the other challenges you face bringing up 3 children, one only two and another with autism, you certainly have a lot on your hands. As Teddy560 suggests the best route is just to concentrate on basic training. Try setting aside, maybe 15 minutes twice a day, initially on your own with your JT, until you establish yourself as his leader and he listens to you. The fact that you all love him to bits just has to make this worth the effort and what a great companion and friend he will become when you have succeeded.
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.