Two Timing

[Macha]

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I notice it isn't uncommon for breeders to have two bitches whelping within days or weeks of each other. Sounds like much work having all those puppies around.

My questions - how separate to you have to keep a pregnant or nursing bitch and her pups from your other dogs, and for how long?

Can two bitches and their litters of around the same age share quarters? Or is there too much protectiveness or rivalry?

I have seen a whippet bitch nursing some pups from another litter besides her own (although their own mother was about) but these pups were 6 and 7 weeks old at the time.

 

[Macha]

so far 86 views and no replies except from myself!

 

[Evie]

I don't breed and have absolutely no experiance of it, so can't comment. Perhaps others reading this are in the same boat? :b

 

[chelynnah]

Well the title of the thread is interesting, but doesn't give much info about what you're asking. As I've yet to breed my first litter I can't help you - so I'd have been one of those many numbers that looked but no answer.

Sorry

Wendy

 

[saraquele]

again i dont know the answer . i can see it both sides (well i am a libran (w00t) )

i guess if your racing or showing and you want the season ahead of you it can be better to have the bitches whelp close together ???

but i know its been fun but hard work with just 4 :lol:

jan is fine with my other bitch and at around 5 / 6 weeks is fine with her round her pups but mouse dosent like the pups so have to stop them from eating mouse (w00t)

no personal experience so cant add any more im afraid :b

 

[stormydog]

so far 86 views and no replies except from myself!

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well that reply to yourself scared the buggers into replying anway (w00t) (w00t) phillipa youd scare a ghost my love :sweating: :sweating:

j o hn

 

[lalena]

well, I can't comment on bitch/bitch etc relations, but our girl amber has been pretty good with our other dog dante [her son from her last litter] being near her new pups. we kept them totally separate during their first week, second week allowed him in the same room at a distance, third week single introductions , and now at four weeks ambers completely happy with dante running around and playing with the pups. hysterical to watch; this muscle bound dog getting chased by four ickle puppies, rolling on the floor and letting them chew, nibble and even hang off his face :teehee:

at the end of the day it all depends on the individual dogs. some bitches, though brilliant at other times, can turn psycho during seasons or after whelping, and i've met a couple who've gone the other way; generally disliking others normally but have become soppy and docile.

another reason some breeders have multiple litters is incase something goes wrong with one of the dams; if one needs to go to the vets, or even dies, then there's another bitch available to take on the litter.

 

[Blossom]

I can only comment on cats as I breed British Shorthairs and Selirk Rex. This year I had 2 litters born 6 weeks apart, it was hectic and I did keep the litters separate as one of the queens is rather over-protective of her babies! I will try in the future not to have litters together but it'll prove impossible I expect as next year I will have 5 girls wanting babies!!

 

[dessie]

I've only just seen this but can comment!!

I stupidly did it once and once only when I was breeding my Cocker Spaniels!!! I mated them both, thinking one was bound to miss, ha! ha! We had 13 puppies in total about 3 days apart and it was a nightmare! Such hard work.

I always keep my bitches in one of the spare bedrooms, away from all the other dogs, until the puppies are on their feet, so I just put their two whelping boxes side by side. One was a first time mother (who would feed the pups all day long but didn't like the cleaning up bits) and the other had already had had a litter (and she was very houseproud!). I could put all the puppies in with either bitch or mix them up and the only thing the bitches would not do is get in one another's whelping box but neither minded the other one being around or got jealous about the pups.

Once the puppies came downstairs into the kitchen was when the hard work really began. If I wasn't feeding them I was cleaning them out! And as for the the noise in the early morning! Lizzie (first and only time mother!) didn't want to know about them any more. Merry used to go in and out with the pups at will, which is what I always let my bitches do, right up to the time the pups go to their new homes.

Luckily selling Cockers was like selling hot cakes and they were all gone by 10 weeks!

And thank goodness Whippet puppies are NOTHING like Cockers!! But I will never, ever mate two bitches at the same time again!!

Just re-read your post and would add that my pregnant bitches are treated exactly like the rest of the dogs until the day they have the pups........ it is a perfectly normal state, they are not ill!!!

 

[Macha]

my question isn't specifically about bitches rearing pups together, but about how much separate quarters you need available for bitch and pup when there's another canine in the house

 

[dessie]

my question isn't specifically about bitches rearing pups together, but about how much separate quarters you need available for bitch and pup when there's another canine in the house

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Well I thought my answer was fairly comprehensive! I kept the two bitches in my spare bedroom with the whelping boxes (36" x 36") side by side! Normally I would only have one bitch whelping at a time but she still is away upstairs and the other dogs are not allowed near. The bitch herself can come up and down as she wants.

Once the puppies are up on their feet (about 4 weeks old) they are brought down to the kitchen. I am lucky in that I have a big L-shaped room of which one part is kitchen, the other part just an empty room where the adult dogs sleep. The puppy pen goes in that part so they can see the big dogs without actually mixing with them. The pen is two panels long by one panel wide, panels are probably (can't remember exactly) 39" long. The puppies have a cage (36" x 24") in the pen that they can sleep in. As they get bigger they come out of the pen, under supervision, and go out into the garden or wherever to play several times a day. Once they are downstairs their mother just integrates back into the household and goes in and out with the pups when she wants to.

 

[05whippet]

my question isn't specifically about bitches rearing pups together, but about how much separate quarters you need available for bitch and pup when there's another canine in the house

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Well I thought my answer was fairly comprehensive! I kept the two bitches in my spare bedroom with the whelping boxes (36" x 36") side by side! Normally I would only have one bitch whelping at a time but she still is away upstairs and the other dogs are not allowed near. The bitch herself can come up and down as she wants.

Once the puppies are up on their feet (about 4 weeks old) they are brought down to the kitchen. I am lucky in that I have a big L-shaped room of which one part is kitchen, the other part just an empty room where the adult dogs sleep. The puppy pen goes in that part so they can see the big dogs without actually mixing with them. The pen is two panels long by one panel wide, panels are probably (can't remember exactly) 39" long. The puppies have a cage (36" x 24") in the pen that they can sleep in. As they get bigger they come out of the pen, under supervision, and go out into the garden or wherever to play several times a day. Once they are downstairs their mother just integrates back into the household and goes in and out with the pups when she wants to.

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That's pretty much the same way that I do it too Caroline,except that my whelping room is the conservatory off our snug where the other dogs are and has a full glass wall & door so that I can see into the room all the time, Mum also like yours can come and go as she pleases and there is a big sofa in there too so as the puppies get older and she wants a break from them she has somewhere other than in with the pups to lie, the whelping box which is 3ft x 4ft is in there until the pups are old enough and then I remove it and replace with a puppy pen which is 8ft x 4ft with a crate up one end and paper down the other and the same as your lot do the pups go outside several times a day to exercise and toilet. When the puppies are in the pen the door to the conservatory is left open and mum and the other dogs can go in and see the pups and have a sniff and I let mine outside in the front paddock with the other dogs from about 6wks to integrate.It's all very hard work raising a litter,especially a winter one when everywhere is a bog and it's freezing and you can't let them out as much as you'd like or they need!!!!

And there would be more of a chance of bumping into the pope,than me having two litters at the same time!!!!!!! (w00t)

 

[Macha]

thanks for the information

regarding multiple litters, I did notice in a recent kc publication that several whippet breeders had two litters born very close together

I wouldn't be at all surprised to learn that bitches who live together often come in season at the same time ( is that the case?)

 

[bardmand]

thanks for the information
regarding multiple litters, I did notice in a recent kc publication that several whippet breeders had two litters born very close together

I wouldn't be at all surprised to learn that bitches who live together often come in season at the same time ( is that the case?)

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Oh, a question I can answer even if I'm not a breeder: Yes, bitches living together often have synchronised cycles.

 

[dessie]

Yes, quite often that is the case but it doesn't mean to say you have to mate all of them!!

 

[bardmand]

Even if I'm not a breeder, I can think of some additional reasons why some would choose to breed to bitches at once (some have in part to do with the syncronised cycles):

1. It is easier and less expensive to take time off work to rear puppies once than twice.

2. It is easier to sell puppies at certain times of year.

3. One or both combinations could be hard to accomplish later on for some reason or other (the sire is old or a foreign visitor, one of the bitches is getting older etc.)

4. You want to keep a puppy, but only from one of the litters, but you still don't want to run on a pup for as long as it takes for the next litter to arrive.

 

[Macha]

I watched a tv programme about animal gestation, etc

One bit was about dingos. Some of the bitches who haven't conceived will foster-nurse pups for other bitches while they go out and hunt for food. I don't know why the barren bitches don't do the hunting and feed the nursing bitch but it was connected with dominance. The alpha bitch gets the pups, passes on her maybe superior genes AND does the hunting. The programme attributed the phenomenon of phantom pregnancies in domestic canines to traits inherited from wild dogs.

And I have now heard a few stories about bitches co-mothering.

 

[saraquele]

I watched a tv programme about animal gestation, etc One bit was about dingos. Some of the bitches who haven't conceived will foster-nurse pups for other bitches while they go out and hunt for food. I don't know why the barren bitches don't do the hunting and feed the nursing bitch but it was connected with dominance. The alpha bitch gets the pups, passes on her maybe superior genes AND does the hunting. The programme attributed the phenomenon of phantom pregnancies in domestic canines to traits inherited from wild dogs.

And I have now heard a few stories about bitches co-mothering.

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my dad told me that one of his bitches years ago would produce milk and feed another bitches pups , my dad only ever had 3 litters but on the 2 that were not trudy's she fed both litters alongside the mum :thumbsup:

i also watched the programm last night and it was brill :thumbsup: