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Weeing for Attention

Discussion in 'General Dog Forum' started by VictoriaSonny, Dec 8, 2020.

  1. VictoriaSonny

    VictoriaSonny Member Registered

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    Hi Guys,
    Our 5 month old puppy hasn’t had accidents in the house for over 2 months now. We have an issue with attention barking (different story)! Anyway, when he barks for attention and bites our feet, we leave the room and shut the door until he’s calm. Then go back in and return to whatever we were doing. Tonight Sonny barked and lunged at the feet on two occasions for attention so we left the room and returned as we’ve been doing. He then walked out to the hallway and wee’d on the mat. He normally cries at the back door to go out for both wee and poos. Is this for attention? Thanks :)
     
  2. JoanneF

    JoanneF Well-Known Member Registered

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    No, dogs simply don't do things like this to get attention, to spite us or anything like that. It's more likely he was just excited by his attempts to play, and got caught short. Its actually quite common for puppies to regress with toilet habits around this age but that is usually caused by the owners taking their eye off the ball. At 5 months, I'd nor be relying on him to let you know, I'd stick to a routine of proactively taking him out every 90 minutes (or whatever times work) whether he signals or not.
     
  3. VictoriaSonny

    VictoriaSonny Member Registered

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    I didn’t know this was common. However he went for a wee outside about 5 minutes before hand which is strange for him to need to go that quickly. X
     
  4. JoanneF

    JoanneF Well-Known Member Registered

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    Boy dogs (and some girls) don't always completely empty their bladders though.
     
  5. VictoriaSonny

    VictoriaSonny Member Registered

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    I see. Thanks @JoanneF
     
  6. JudyN

    JudyN Moderator Moderator Registered

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    It's quite common for owners to have to take their pup out for a wee, come back, then go straight back outside again for 'second wee'.
     
  7. Tinytom

    Tinytom Well-Known Member Registered

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    When a dog barks it is for a reason the same reason a baby crys i dont believe its just for attention. ..dogs and babies just dont have the capacity to think like that ...:oops:
     
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  8. Finsky

    Finsky Well-Known Member Registered

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    There is another reason for weeing that you may or may not come across later on...
    I found with one of my girls that as a teenager, she had a month period of 'teenage nervousness'. On the surface she was her lively and fearless herself and all of the sudden she would let little trickle escape when being petted. We did take her to vets when this started to happen to have her checked for UTI but all was clear :rolleyes: It was only occasional thing and not even every day. But once we clicked onto her certain behavioural pattern just as accident was about to happen, we would not pay so much attention to her and all settled down and she 'dried out' again. I've seen this happening with young dogs, but at the time I didn't connect the dots at first of what it was all about.
    So that you are aware in case things will start going backwards again in the future...;)
     
  9. VictoriaSonny

    VictoriaSonny Member Registered

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    We’ve spoken to a behavioural specialist and they think it’s barking for attention as he does it when he demands us to play with him. I think he has the capacity to think like that, he’s a clever little devil! Haha!
     
  10. JoanneF

    JoanneF Well-Known Member Registered

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    I think there are different sorts of 'barks for attention' though - like ”play with me” versus ”I've got myself into a situation and I need you to help me now”.

    I guess you could even interpret that all barks are for some sort of attention, and the key is knowing which ones we can shush and which ones we need to respond to. And with a puppy, until they have the confidence and capacity to sort out their own ”situations” a lot of us will err on the side of caution.
     
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  11. Tinytom

    Tinytom Well-Known Member Registered

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    What is your pups daily routine. ...
     
  12. VictoriaSonny

    VictoriaSonny Member Registered

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    Now this varies from day to day. Up at 7am - walk/lead training, sometimes crate from 930am - 12/1, walk/leadtraining/playtime for an hour. Crate from 1/2 - 4/5pm, walk/leadtrain/play from 4/5 through the evening. Bed at 11pm. Obviously feeding breakfast, lunch and dinner. Sometime if my partner finishes early/doesn't work at all he's walked and played with all day. So it does vary. He's not a destructive puppy, loves his crate, I watch him on the camera and he's asleep most of the day when we are both out, doesn't bark or cry - no sign on anxiety about being alone. Happily chews his toys :)
     
  13. JudyN

    JudyN Moderator Moderator Registered

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    That's a LOT of crate time for any pup, and particularly so for one of his breeding and age! And you mention lead training and play, but no other training/brain games. Have a read of this thread, and try to spend much more time interacting with him using these types of activities: Mental enrichment for dogs
     
  14. VictoriaSonny

    VictoriaSonny Member Registered

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    You’ve said this to me before about crate time, but it’s no longer than 3 hours a time and others I have spoken to for opinions have given me a different response. We of course do other training of commands and tricks and activities like snuffle mats and treat dispensers to get his brain thinking. I will do the other suggestions you posted about mental enrichment though. Like I said, it does vary. Sometimes he’s not in his crate at all during the day but when he is he’s not distressed. We also attend classes once a week.
     
  15. JudyN

    JudyN Moderator Moderator Registered

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    It's true, there's a huge range of opinions on crates. But putting the crate to one side, it strikes me as a lot of downtime for what I'm sure is a clever dog with an active brain, and you have to look at the dog in front of you rather than just what people say 'should' work. It may be better for him to be out of his crate more, with you throwing in a few mini-training/enrichment sessions as you're going about your day ('accidentally' dropping socks and getting him to retrieve them for you, getting him to shut cupboard doors...). Of course, that won't work if you're normally out whilst he's in his crate.
     
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  16. merlina

    merlina Well-Known Member Registered

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    There's a reason crates are illegal in some of the countries we think of as the most civilized and humane. I've seen dogs- particularly sensitive working dogs- become very disturbed by so called 'crate training'. I think if your very young dog is showing symptoms of distress you really should rethink.
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2020
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  17. VictoriaSonny

    VictoriaSonny Member Registered

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    I’ve noticed that some people on this forum start to become quite judgemental rather than helpful. If you have nothing to add in relation to my post apart from judgement, then say nothing. He is NOT distressed in his crate in the slightest.
     
  18. merlina

    merlina Well-Known Member Registered

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    Ah well, me and Mark Twain then: the more I learn of people the more I like my dog.
     
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  19. RGC

    RGC Active Member Registered

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    Nobody can say that this forum lacks erudition.
     
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  20. JacksDad

    JacksDad Active Member Registered

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    Dogs can get into a bark for attention. this is because ANY attention is reinforcement, so they learn "I bark, I get attention". it is not devious, it is simply learning what works to get a a need filled.

    I have yet to come across any evidence that dogs will use urination to achieve this.

    The solution though is NOT just doing the "time outs" (you leaving the room), the solution has 3 parts.

    1. how to get attention. what is an acceptable means to get attention if not bark.
    2. making sure their physical and mental needs are met.
    Then only if 1 and 2 have been addressed do we go to...
    3. time outs. barking to get attention is not reinforced because it cause us to disengage from our dogs.

    on rare, rare occasions I have suggested start 3 earlier than above suggests, but 1 and 2 still MUST be implemented to have the complete solution.

    If we never train what to do, the dog has no idea what makes the human happy. All they know is to do what comes naturally to a dog...bark, jump on etc.

    often people do see a bark is a bark is a bark. But in reality, barking is just one of a couple ways our dog can communicate with us. there might be a need like going to the bathroom that triggered the barking. So you should not blindly do "dog barks, I leave the room" unless you are 100% sure there isn't a life need being asked to be addressed such as ... pee break outside. if we just assume the barking is the annoying "pay attention, play with me..me... me... me " barking, then you might miss the "I got to pee" bark and find when you come back from "leaving the room" as a correction/time out...a pee spot on the floor might be found.

    While your puppy may not be distressed, there is legitimate concern about the time you indicate the puppy is crated. it's not so much the over all amount of time, but the long stretches between breaks. Keep in mind, this is a puppy with development needs such as mental stimulation and physical outlets for all that puppy energy. Long stretches in the crate increase those needs. which could be a factor in the earlier discussed "demand barking" for attention.

    Puppies do not tend to need long periods of activity before needing another nap. I would recommend breaking up the time and taking 15 to 30 min puppy breaks. make sure there is a chance to bathroom. time to get the "wiggles" out, some play with you. some mental challenges etc.

    Another concern is people are often given bad advice about the sizing of the crate. for what you describe in terms of use, the crate absolutely should be big enough for your dog to stretch out, change positions easily etc. people are often told to get small sized crates that barley allow the dog to move, stretch out, change positions etc. while there is a place for such crates, they are not appropriate for the type use you are describing. So be sure the crate is large enough for movement.

    An alternative is X Pens. you can line them with pee pads as a safety, put in a bowl of water, dog bed, some toys etc and let your puppy hang out in a larger space.

    I know some might have a concern that this option might cause an issue with house training. It will NOT be an issue IF you are proactive with taking your puppy out.

    crates absolutely have their place. Dogs should be comfortable with them and used to spending time in them. After all if they end up in an overnight stay at the vet, a crate is where they will be. You are NOT wrong for using one. But given what you shared, I can see where there could be concern. And that concern could simply be due to the limits of what you have shared. And that is ok too...you shouldn't feel you have to bare your sole to us. it is the public internet after all. So take the concern for what it is, well intention concern.

    Something to keep in mind, you might find the "bossy" / "demands" for attention problem also becomes addressed by adjusting how the crate is used. meaning more breaks with activity for your puppy in smaller, but more frequent windows of time.
     
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