What Do You Think,

[Dusilla]

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In pictures Eos looks quite small for a Greyhound. But were Greyhounds smaller in those days? She also wasn't originally from England, but prince Albert brought her from Germany.

Her are some pictures of her:

http://www.abcgallery.com/L/landseer/landseer32.html

http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Plains/2929/eos.jpg

I just started to ponder this, while I'm soon writing the "Origins of the Whippet" section to one of our club's publications.

 

[Seraphina]

Eos certainly looks small, about the size of nowadays Whippets. I would not expect Greyhound to be quite so little, although anatomically she is more Greyhound than old-fashioned Whippet.

Lida

 

[OEH]

I think a very small greyhound. I think whippets from the period were much slighter, particularly the hind quarters and waist.

 

[bardmand]

Had the breed name whippet even started being used at that time? I think she is a small greyhound, but then, were not small greyhounds where whippets as a separate breed started?

I guess greyhounds in those days were generally smaller than today's show greyhounds, but also that they varied quite a lot in size. Although, the average height of people has increased quite dramatically since then, so proportions seen in the picture could be misleading, so that Eos could have been even smaller than she appears in the picture. I don't know for sure how tall Prince Albert was, though.

She looks so beautiful, it does not really matter what you call her, though.

 

[oakmoorehill]

I'd say very small greyhound she just seems to have more of a look of my greyhound than the my whippets although much smaller than him .

Just had a look in my greyhound book and it says Eos was a greyhound

It doesn't give any idea of size it just say they had to be big enough and powerful enough to bring down a wild boar

 

[jools]

I don't think she is a whippet, just not right, for a modern day one anyway.

Whatever she was, she was beautiful, she sooked like a much loved dog.

 

[Dusilla]

Thank you all for voting and answering! The vote was unanimous: Eos was a Greyhound.

 

[Karen]

I think Whippets have just got so big over the years we think old time Greyhounds look small!

 

[Seraphina]

I think Whippets have just got so big over the years we think old time Greyhounds look small!

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Both of these breeds got lot bigger over the years.

 

[~elizabeth~]

Had the breed name whippet even started being used at that time? I think she is a small greyhound, but then, were not small greyhounds where whippets as a separate breed started?

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I think the term 'whippet' is somewhat misleading in terms of the history of hounds with distinctive whippet type. To quote Walsh and Low:

"...in the evolution of the whippet we have the 'little running dog' whose existance is proved by writers, painters and sculptors. His type carries on like a river into which flow side streams from the English greyhound, Italian greyhound and terriers of various sorts. But one is forced to the conclusion that whippets share the dominant genetic purity of greyhounds or they would not have survived the many infusions of cross-breeing over so many years and so many purposes. It cannot be coincidental that the same size, type, and quality exisits in the modern whippet as can be seen in som any examples in art, painting, sculpture and bronze. Prior to the date when the term 'whippet' was commonly used for the dog as we know it, it was probably known as the English Greyhound, a small greyhound or even an Italian Greyhound.... Size, after all, is a relative quality. Coomassie, a greyhound bitch of 24 inches wond the Waterloo cup in 1877...

We believe that with selective breeding from the same genetic pool one could, in a few generations, produce an Italian Greyhound and Greyhound from original whippet stock...We do not believe that any amount of selective breeding would produce any sort of terrier. Our conclusion... is that, far from being any sort of cross the whippet is essentially a small greyhound sharing the same dominant genetic purity of the breed."

As to the version of whippet history found in every textbook, that whippets were originally a hybrid with variously Manchester, Fox and long-legged terriers, the absence of black and tan and extreme rarity of saddle-marking (even with over 100 yrs of line breeding which favours recessive characteristics) suggests that this is just not so.

 

[OEH]

As to the version of whippet history found in every textbook, that whippets were originally a hybrid with variously Manchester, Fox and long-legged terriers, the absence of black and tan and extreme rarity of saddle-marking (even with over 100 yrs of line breeding which favours recessive characteristics) suggests that this is just not so.

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That's a really good point. I have been wondering about this one recently. If there is manchester in them why doesn't black and tan ever come out.

 

[Seraphina]

As to the version of whippet history found in every textbook, that whippets were originally a hybrid with variously Manchester, Fox and long-legged terriers, the absence of black and tan and extreme rarity of saddle-marking (even with over 100 yrs of line breeding which favours recessive characteristics) suggests that this is just not so.

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That's a really good point. I have been wondering about this one recently. If there is manchester in them why doesn't black and tan ever come out.

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But it does come out occassionally. I would expect in the past they would have been culled, as they would have been prove that the line was not "pure", or the breeder would be acused of the bitch being mismated.

Here is a link to recent black and tan pup in the USA

http://hometown.aol.com./shamasan2/2005MandyPups.html

 

[JAX]

I think Whippets have just got so big over the years we think old time Greyhounds look small!

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When greyhounds were just coursed they were smaller than what we see today , as they mainly lived on what they caught .whereas today with all the `complete feeds we now get a larger dog , The show Greyhounds ,IMO, have changed so much they really dont look like a `proper `Greyhound at all and I doubt very much wether they could catch there own dinner , I had a freind who bred both types and he took me on a days coursing , you wouldnt believe the differance in running abilty :wacko: I realsie Show whippets have also changed from the `original `whippet` :b , but we know of lots of our showbred dogs that have caught live game ., mine included o

 

[OEH]

But it does come out occassionally.  I would expect in the past they would have been culled, as they would have been prove that the line was not "pure", or the breeder would be acused of the bitch being mismated.Here is a link to recent black and tan pup in the USA

http://hometown.aol.com./shamasan2/2005MandyPups.html

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What an interesting litter :thumbsup: - just brindle missing

 

[05whippet]

As to the version of whippet history found in every textbook, that whippets were originally a hybrid with variously Manchester, Fox and long-legged terriers, the absence of black and tan and extreme rarity of saddle-marking (even with over 100 yrs of line breeding which favours recessive characteristics) suggests that this is just not so.

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That's a really good point. I have been wondering about this one recently. If there is manchester in them why doesn't black and tan ever come out.

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But it does come out occassionally. I would expect in the past they would have been culled, as they would have been prove that the line was not "pure", or the breeder would be acused of the bitch being mismated.

Here is a link to recent black and tan pup in the USA

http://hometown.aol.com./shamasan2/2005MandyPups.html

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The little Black & Tan is sooo sweet :wub: Nice litter, as said great variety of colors there

I think it's really interesting how breeds have changed so much through the years,but even now there is a big difference in the sizes and types of dog.Take for instance the Whippet, the AKC's Breed Standard is different to the KC's regarding size amongst other things, and what the dog is bred to do relates to it's size also, as race bred Whippets seem smaller than say your average show one.Also there is a big difference in size of track bred Greyhounds and Show bred ones too.I just think it depends what the dog is bred for. )

 

[~elizabeth~]

The little Black & Tan is sooo sweet  :wub:   Nice litter, as said great variety of colors there 

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It's face is so different from the the others though, shorter and broader :unsure:

 

[JAX]

Be interesting to see what colour the parents are . and their `lines` too . The black and Tan looked to be longer cast than the others to me . Not too sure wether I liked it or not :b .

Many years ago we had one in the UK , quite a nice dog , I think it had the odd Dondelayo line . but it wasn around long and the owner/breeder disappeared with it

I thought it was quite a nice dog too , but then I was VERY new to the breed , so maybe it wasnt :lol:

 

[05whippet]

The little Black & Tan is sooo sweet  :wub:   Nice litter, as said great variety of colors there 

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It's face is so different from the the others though, shorter and broader :unsure:

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Actually I thought the Blue boy was quite different too,far longer face on profile.

Still think the Blk & Tan is sweet,maybe not English type but still a sweet pup.

I think I'm odd anyway :teehee: I like the rangier,longer cast Whippets.

 

[Seraphina]

Anybody interested in looking at the shamazan website;

http://hometown.aol.com./shamasan2/index.html

I could not find there pics of the parents or pedigrees, but I get too impatient and give up. :luck:

I do not think the B&T pup's head being so different, maybe the markings making an optical illusion?