Eye drops help!

[Bootsie]

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Had Max 5 weeks. He is a rescue Lhasa. He had conjunctivitis and would not let me near his eyes to administer drops. Vet gave him tablets but said eyes would need frequent bathing. I think its coming back again as he will not let me anywhere near his eyes. Watched all the videos and read all the tips but nothing is working. Using force traumatised him and still could not get them in. Worried for his future health if I can't sort this out. Feeling so frustrated and feeling like I am letting him down. Any suggestions at all please.

 

[JoanneF]

Can you put some on a clean piece of cotton and wipe his eyes with it - it's not perfect, but it might get some of the solution on to his lashes at least?

And perhaps ask your vet if there's a cream or ointment rather than drops if that would be easier?

 

[JudyN]

What worked for my dog was wiping his eyes with wet cotton wool pads. He would accept that, and gradually I used slightly wetter pads, then squeezed them to drop water on his fur close to his eye, until I could give his eyes a reasonable bathe and wipe away any gunk. If your dog is already suspicious you might have to hold off for a bit, then pair holding the pad close to him while giving him treats (so he sees the pad as a good thing), and then taking it in steps very slowly, paired with treats and lots of praise at each stage.

Another thought - how is your Lhasa in the bath? If you're able to bathe him, you could start by wetting his head a bit more than usual, and build up to letting water run over his face - might that work? Or take him for a walk in the rain and then pretend you're drying him off... with a wet flannel you can squeeze over his face.

You've not had him long, so the more you can do to not stress him the better - fingers crossed something here will work.

 

[Bootsie]

Thank you so much for replying. Unfortunately he (Max) runs away when he sees the cotton pads. I have another dog and use the pads on him and give him treats and praise him hoping Max will see Milo is not afraid and gets a treat. I have only managed to bathe Max once and did manage to get a little warm water around his eyes but he somehow managed to jump out of the bath with dog shampoo all over him! Not sure I will get him back in the bath again soon!
I'm anxious because he does try to bite and has bitten (not badly) my partner.
I'm trying to win his trust but his eyes keep me awake at night!

 

[Bootsie]

Can you put some on a clean piece of cotton and wipe his eyes with it - it's not perfect, but it might get some of the solution on to his lashes at least?

And perhaps ask your vet if there's a cream or ointment rather than drops if that would be easier?

 

[Bootsie]

Thank you for replying. The cotton pads are a problem, he runs away and hides if he sees them and don't get them out until I am near him to use them. It's going to be a slow process and I just worry about his eyes until he trusts me enough to let me help him.

 

[JudyN]

Ah, the poor lad. It sounds like for now, you need to remove as much stress as possible till he's able to relax more. And then maybe just have the pads in the same room as him so they become part of the furniture. And keep your fingers crossed his eyes stay OK for a while...

You might want to consider muzzle training him. Ideally, of course, you want to avoid doing anything that would make him want to bite, but if it is unavoidable, being able to put a muzzle on him will help you and/or the vet do what needs doing in a much quicker and calmer manner. We have something on muzzle training here: Accustoming a dog to a muzzle It might be that for some time, the best you can hope for is for Max to happily lick his treat of choice from the muzzle, so it isn't scary but that's OK - it takes as long as it takes (and you just have to hope you don't need it before then...)

 

[Bootsie]

I'm posting this as part of a set of helpful 'easy reference' articles for common questions and problems. Feel free to add additional info on muzzle training in this thread but please start a new thread for specific questions relating to your dog.

This article was written by Jacksdad (with very minor edits) - thank you @JacksDad


Audition different food items with your dog. Don't expect behaviors. just give a bit of a bite of something dog safe, but real food and watch the reaction. Does your dog start offering behaviors, or behaving on some manner that suggests "more please"? Now you know what gets your dog's attention and will likely work for. Don't focus on what you can buy from the pet store, often dog safe real food is the actual good stuff from the dog's perspective. Real food is often cheaper, as well as healthier in most cases. For example, you can do a heck of a lot of training with plain cooked chicken breast without your dog getting a lot of weight gaining calories.

When needs like this come up, they often come with the "I need this trained YESTERDAY" urgency. which leads to the tendency to just "pop" the muzzle on, which results in early "success" followed by resistance in future attempts to place the muzzle on.

Having something like a muzzle can be uncomfortable. this weight on your dog's face. the confinement. the restriction of breathing, drinking, barking etc. the degree to which differs depending on the muzzle.

So taking into account what just the muzzle in your hand, or its appearance or it moving towards your dog's face predicts is definitely something to factor into your training. muzzle appears...SUPER YUMMY TREAT. muzzle disappears, no treat. muzzle laying on the ground, dog pokes at it...SUPER YUMMY TREAT. Muzzle in hand moving just a bit towards the face, SUPER YUMMY TREAT. So, what does this object we call a muzzle predict to your dog and thus become associated with. option 1...uncomfortable thing "slapped" on dog or option 2, it predicts SUPPER YUMMY TREATs.

So building what is called a Conditioned Emotional Response (or CER. this is related to classical and/or respondent conditioning) really helps with the training. your dog learns to associate the muzzle with good treats and fun time with you.

Next you do want to break down putting on the muzzle and security. lots of possible small steps in there that can be paired with LOTS of SUPER YUMMY TREATs and this is a training that you do not want to be stingy with. for example, your dogs pokes their nose into the muzzle. Does that earn one treat or more than one? The answer should be more than one. I like to use 5 one after the other and always given through the muzzle. do not deliver the reinforcement when your dog has backed out, otherwise you are reinforcing the back out of the muzzle vs putting face in to muzzle.

example of break down of pieces to train.

apearance of muzzle
muzzle in your hand
muzzle in hand, moving towards dog
muzzle in hand, with bit of food in muzzle luring dog into muzzle. give second, third, fourth treat while nose is in muzzle. treats happen where you want the dog "to be" at this point.

So just seeing, having it move towards, poking nose in are all independent skills that build on each other. holding nose in the muzzle for any length of time is an additional skill.

So, now you want to get your dog to hold their nose in the muzzle.
hold muzzle in one hand, with something to lure your dog into the muzzle already in the muzzle. soon as dog puts nose in...one, two, three, four, five treats give at about 1 second intervals, do the best you can. The pause...one thousand and one...and a final treat IF your dog stayed in the muzzle.

you have just took the first step for you dog to hold their nose in the muzzle for 5 seconds. you want to work on phasing out the treats in the first 5 seconds, so that the reinforcement will be based on 5 seconds of nose in the muzzle.

lure dog into the muzzle. one thousand and one, then 1, 2, 3, 4 treats, pause and if your dog again does not pull out of the muzzle, one more treat.

then when your dog is ready for the next step. lure into muzzle. one thousand and one, one thousand and two, then if still in muzzle, 1,2, 3 treats...pause...if still in the muzzle one more treat.

this could take a couple days easily to work through at this point.

The first time your dog holds it's nose in the muzzle for 5 seconds before getting a treat, the reinforcement is 1, 2, 3, 4, 5.

now is time to work on just holding up the muzzle, see if your dog all on their own puts their nose in the muzzle. if so, big reward.

next start building duration. you want a good solid reliable 10 seconds. while working on that. start moving your hand towards the straps, moving them closer and closer to the goal of being able to hold the muzzle, dog puts nose in all on their own, you then strap/buckle, then the big reward.

if you go to fast and your dog opts out...that is fine. don't panic, don't think anything other than "ooops, went to fast, asked to much". slow it down, go back to your most recent successful place, start back towards your "failure" point.

be sure to pay well with the treats, do not be stingy. your dog is learning to tolerate something unpleasant. you MUST make it worth their while or it will always be a battle.

if you have questions, do not hesitate to ask.

Hi there will have to try to. get Max used to a muzzle so I can treat his eyes. Max is a Lhasa /Shitzu so not much nose to put a muzzle on.. Any suggestions as to what to use?

 

[JoanneF]

I got our muzzle from this company, I found them very helpful (and they have lovely colours).

Muzzles | The Muzzle Shop 2/2

Lightweight plastic dog muzzles for all breeds and sizes of dogs. Designed for greyhounds to allow the dogs to pant freely, in a varity of sizes in small, medium large and extra large. Birdwell and Don Pare, coursing, racing, bikejor, canicross, running and postoperatively to prevent a dog...

www.themuzzleshop.com

 

[JudyN]

Remember that the ideal is for a muzzle to be more like a safety belt - it's there just in case. So it's still important to build up trust, at whatever speed it takes, and try to accustom him in time to eye drops (or wipes if that ends up being easier), ear drops, paw handling, general handling all over.... And you also don't want him to see the muzzle as 'this means something BAD is going to happen'. But if you need to do something before he's ready for it, the muzzle could make a lot of difference.

Another thought on bathing the eyes - I wondered if you could stroke him with a flannel under your hand (as if drying him after a wet walk), and gradually accustom him to the flannel rubbing his head, then use a damp flannel.... It might work better than the pads if he's already decided they are scary.