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Junior delinquent!

R

Robins mum

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Hi everyone!

Yes! I have another problem! ..............

I wonder if it will ever stop!

So now at 2 years and 10 months old, Robin has had a huge hormonal kick! Recall is none existent except when in the home! He is sniffing scent everywhere. The worst part of this is that my lovely gentle boy has turned into a monster that I cannot hold and is now leaping on innocent entires everywhere! I have to say that to date he has NOT bitten, but he leaps round the poor dogs in a circle barking about 2 " from their bodies! The only injury to date was a know it all happy go lucky guy who had the most beautiful young golden retriever entire that Robin bounced on after a few minutes of their fiddling about who was gonna walk where, the one person walking back saying she was frightened, and the man being non compliant with my begging request to please move his dog further back and turn his head away which was what I was doing (or trying to do) with Robin, after a few minutes I made the wrong decision to say right I will walk over here then, Robin just spontaneously combusted and the poor bloke was trying to shove Robin away with his feet Robin was moving so fast I could not get him back for what seemed like a lifetime but in reality was probably only a few seconds, then the bloke said Robin had bitten him!


OBVIOUSLY , Robin had NOT bitten, but the guy had a tiny spot of blood on his sock so he had certainly collided with Robins teeth but if he had bitten he would have lost his foot!

Nevertheless, I now have a dog I cannot trust! I cannot hold, no halter type leads will fit him, no muzzle will fit him, trainers are incapable of helping. (well the ones I have tried so far anyway! Although having said that I have a video lesson with Nigel Reed, who does seem to speak a lot of sense to me - but of course he CAN hold his dogs! I'm too darn weak that is a problem, Robin leaps I fly!

I suppose I could pour concrete down my trousers ...........................

Any suggestions? ......... please :(
 
Walk where you're less likely to meet entire males (I know that's easier said than done).

Have you tried a Halti, Gentle Leader, Canni Collar, Perfect Pace... and any other alternatives out there? I know you're concerned about the safety of these, but you have to balance that against the risk of injuring you, and also the consequences if he harmed you or another person or dog. Have you tried a front-fastening harness, which will turn him back towards you? You might want to get a trainer to demonstrate these options. Have you looked on Borzoi forums to see what headcollars, harnesses, etc. fit their dogs?
 
JudyN said:
Walk where you're less likely to meet entire males (I know that's easier said than done).

Have you tried a Halti, Gentle Leader, Canni Collar, Perfect Pace... and any other alternatives out there? I know you're concerned about the safety of these, but you have to balance that against the risk of injuring you, and also the consequences if he harmed you or another person or dog. Have you tried a front-fastening harness, which will turn him back towards you? You might want to get a trainer to demonstrate these options. Have you looked on Borzoi forums to see what headcollars, harnesses, etc. fit their dogs?
Click to expand...


All great, sound advise - thank you very much.

The shape of the Borzoi skull is such that Halti, and similar styles simply do not fit! I tried a muzzle on him today and it just was no use at all - gonna end up with a blind dog!!! The gentle leader again is not a good shape for them, the perfect pace I have not heard of, and looking at it on a german shepherd photo, it looks great - but it is the blooming shape of the Borzoi skull with a head smaller than their necks that is the huge problem, I've been out searching again today but nil suitable found.

I do have another harness on the way and I do have great hopes for this! I've been trying to contact the Northern Borzoi club for a week, phoning and sending emails - no joy so far!

It is the speed with which he changes from 'yup! sitting quietly mum, being real good, and just watchiiiiiiiiiiing and he has gone! I just don't stand a chance the volocity is unbelievable! I did wonder about tying his legs together!

I am terrified of taking him out currently, and of course he IS winding up every second he is not able to run free! I really, really, don't know which way to turn! after the incident with the golden retriever I was just about to ring the vet to have him pts when my friend walked up, having witnessed most of what had happened from a distance and after I had left she spoke with the man, who showed her a tiny spot of blood apparently, so not a bite for sure! Anyway she stopped me from ringing the vet, but I really don't know what is the right thing to do! I'm sure you all know how much I love this dog, but I cannot put people and other animals at risk.
 
I've seen Ruffwear Webmaster harnesses recommended for borzois. There are also borzoi muzzles out there (not sure how easy they are to find in the UK though). But a muzzle won't address the real problem, which is his behaviour. It might encourage other owners to keep their dogs at a distance though.
 
JudyN said:
I've seen Ruffwear Webmaster harnesses recommended for borzois. There are also borzoi muzzles out there (not sure how easy they are to find in the UK though). But a muzzle won't address the real problem, which is his behaviour. It might encourage other owners to keep their dogs at a distance though.
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Hi, yes I have a Ruffmaster, also, but it is not the Webmaster which has the third belly strap. I found
JudyN said:
Walk where you're less likely to meet entire males (I know that's easier said than done).

Have you tried a Halti, Gentle Leader, Canni Collar, Perfect Pace... and any other alternatives out there? I know you're concerned about the safety of these, but you have to balance that against the risk of injuring you, and also the consequences if he harmed you or another person or dog. Have you tried a front-fastening harness, which will turn him back towards you? You might want to get a trainer to demonstrate these options. Have you looked on Borzoi forums to see what headcollars, harnesses, etc. fit their dogs?[/QUOT
Click to expand...
 
JudyN, the Halti do a no pull harness and that seems superb, however, they only go up to large and although I did try it it was clearly not going to go on him! - HOWEVER! rainbow coming! I am speaking with them and hoping they will agree to make one especially for Robin! I'm very excited, but they have not conclusively agreed yet - back and forth with measurements and photos! fingers crossed! Currently doing all I can to keep him away from dogs I do not know! While trying to ensure he gets adequate playtime, with his doggy mates! One step at a time!
 
Good equipment is important, and I hope you get sone joy from Halti. However, it seems to me there is a much more fundamental problem here. This dog should not be let off the lead.
You may think a bite is trivial because there's not much blood. An awful lot of people - myself included - would not agree. To be circled and bitten by a large dog can be a very frightening experience indeed, especially if it is clear that the person with the dog does not have control of it. Let's not forget that a young, fit and healthy dog walker was killed by the dogs she was walking with recently.
That's an extreme case, but people can be left with a very profound fear of dogs if they are attacked - and for those people, dogs are very difficult to avoid these days.
A dog running fast towards someone can cause life changing injury. I know this, because I fractured my tibial plateau when an off lead GSD ran towards me at full speed to try and barge my dog. It was over 2 years before I could walk long distances, and I'm likely to need a knee replacement. The owner didn't even stay around long enough to see me put in the ambulance. I was on crutches for 4 months.
So frankly, I find your jokey approach to what is a very serious situation offensive and irresponsible. You need either to rehome this dog to someone who can rehabilitate him, or do what a lot if people with difficult dogs do and hire a field for exercise so that he can never threaten another dog or person again.
 
Feverfew said:
Good equipment is important, and I hope you get sone joy from Halti. However, it seems to me there is a much more fundamental problem here. This dog should not be let off the lead.
You may think a bite is trivial because there's not much blood. An awful lot of people - myself included - would not agree. To be circled and bitten by a large dog can be a very frightening experience indeed, especially if it is clear that the person with the dog does not have control of it. Let's not forget that a young, fit and healthy dog walker was killed by the dogs she was walking with recently.
That's an extreme case, but people can be left with a very profound fear of dogs if they are attacked - and for those people, dogs are very difficult to avoid these days.
A dog running fast towards someone can cause life changing injury. I know this, because I fractured my tibial plateau when an off lead GSD ran towards me at full speed to try and barge my dog. It was over 2 years before I could walk long distances, and I'm likely to need a knee replacement. The owner didn't even stay around long enough to see me put in the ambulance. I was on crutches for 4 months.
So frankly, I find your jokey approach to what is a very serious situation offensive and irresponsible. You need either to rehome this dog to someone who can rehabilitate him, or do what a lot if people with difficult dogs do and hire a field for exercise so that he can never threaten another dog or person again.
Click to expand...


I can clearly see you are suffering PTSD, I can totally understand, however, please do not lump me in with the irresponsible and even jokey and offensive. I am most certainly irresponsible, I DO hire a field but sadly do not have sufficient funds to do so 3 x a day 7 days a week at £15 per hour! I am NOT lightly giving my companion away to some unknown quantity dog rescue! You have to relinquish all control they will not even allow you to keep your dog until a potential home has been sought! That is bloody wrong, irresponsible and inhumane! I am not those either!

Robin is now ONLY let off the lead in a quiet well fenced area, but I cannot control people walking in with their dogs, so I always catch him (if possible) and walk away since this last episode, where I do not consider it to have been totally My, or Robins fault but a number of unfortunate errors on my part and most definately the owner of the other dog who would not take things seriously, would not move his dog (I was on the edge of the towpath so nowhere to move and I was not going swimming in that dirty place!) H said time and time again while continuing to walk up the towpath, " its fine he's all right!" and completely ignoring my shouting that I could not hold my dog if he lunged at his dog! I also say again that my dog DID NOT BITE anyone or anything!
 
Robins mum said:
I can clearly see you are suffering PTSD, I can totally understand, however, please do not lump me in with the irresponsible and even jokey and offensive. I am most certainly irresponsible, I DO hire a field but sadly do not have sufficient funds to do so 3 x a day 7 days a week at £15 per hour! I am NOT lightly giving my companion away to some unknown quantity dog rescue! You have to relinquish all control they will not even allow you to keep your dog until a potential home has been sought! That is bloody wrong, irresponsible and inhumane! I am not those either!

Robin is now ONLY let off the lead in a quiet well fenced area, but I cannot control people walking in with their dogs, so I always catch him (if possible) and walk away since this last episode, where I do not consider it to have been totally My, or Robins fault but a number of unfortunate errors on my part and most definately the owner of the other dog who would not take things seriously, would not move his dog (I was on the edge of the towpath so nowhere to move and I was not going swimming in that dirty place!) H said time and time again while continuing to walk up the towpath, " its fine he's all right!" and completely ignoring my shouting that I could not hold my dog if he lunged at his dog! I also say again that my dog DID NOT BITE anyone or anything!
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Ha ha! of course I would have liked to have typed without the error! I am most certainly NOT IRRESPONSIBLE!
 
@Robins mum it is not acceptable to state that someone has a specific mental health condition based on one brief post - even a mental health expert would not consider doing that. Please retract that comment.
 
JudyN said:
@Robins mum it is not acceptable to state that someone has a specific mental health condition based on one brief post - even a mental health expert would not consider doing that. Please retract that comment.
Click to expand...

I don't agree, I am no expert, however, I have signficant experience to have made that comment. However, I should perhaps not have put that on this forum, it was definately not meant to upset, purely to confirm recognition of the distress felt.
 
But this is exactly the problem isn't it? There's always someone else to blame, and there are always contradictory statements.

You say he is never off lead except in quiet fenced areas, yet here you are, off lead on a towpath! Of all the places to walk a dog like that, a towpath is one of the worst, because you cannot avoid other dogs and people coming head-on.

As for Robin's teeth 'colliding' with someone's body, good luck with that in court. It might be worth remembering that under the Dangerous Dogs Act, a person may only feel afraid of being attacked for an offence to be committed, and whether you think that is a reasonable regulation or not, that's how things stand at the moment.

My Romanian dog is entire, and I would absolutely dread meeting an owner like you on a walk. He would be terrified to be intimidated by Robin in that manner - we are not talking here about 'puppy licence', but your fully grown dog doing exactly as he likes, with no influence from you, and basically behaving like a thug. I don't doubt he's a lovely dog - I have never met a dog who isn't - but if you think this is all ok and a big joke, and soneone else's problem anyway, you need a reality fix, and quick.
 
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@Robins mum as we have all said before Maybe its time you seriously consider letting this boy go to a more suitable home before something serious happens and he loses his life through no fault of his own ........
 
Feverfew said:
But this is exactly the problem isn't it? There's always someone else to blame, and there are always contradictory statements.

You say he is never off lead except in quiet fenced areas, yet here you are, off lead on a towpath! Of all the places to walk a dog like that, a towpath is one of the worst, because you cannot avoid other dogs and people coming head-on.

As for Robin's teeth 'colliding' with someone's body, good luck with that in court. It might be worth remembering that under the Dangerous Dogs Act, a person may only feel afraid of being attacked for an offence to be committed, and whether you think that is a reasonable regulation or not, that's how things stand at the moment.

My Romanian dog is entire, and I would absolutely dread meeting an owner like you on a walk. He would be terrified to be intimidated by Robin in that manner - we are not talking here about 'puppy licence', but your fully grown dog doing exactly as he likes, with no influence from you, and basically behaving like a thug. I don't doubt he's a lovely dog - I have never met a dog who isn't - but if you think this is all ok and a big joke, and soneone else's problem anyway, you need a reality fix, and quick.
Click to expand...

Thank you for your comments albeit incorrect! You clearly did not pick up on the fact that I had Robin on a lead! Infact TWO leads on him A slip lead round his neck and a twin clip on his harness, holding breast and back. I also would like to know what your 'owners like me' actually does mean! Getting a little childish here I think...... The whole reason I keep posting is because I am hoping that someone might have learned something new to help! Because Im not sure about you - but I accept I will never know everything! someone might have read something yesterday that they did not know and what might just help!

Robins' recall is spot on for the majority of times, but like everydog cannot be guaranteed 100% of the time! I avoid people as much as I can since the incident I can also assure you that this is NOT an everyday occurrance but when his adrenaline is stirred that extra bit that young dogs really should not go to.

If for one minute you think I am taking this lightly - or that I find it amusing you are a sad sick person! I love animals! I respect them 100% I am able to walk my dog with a loose lead at heel the majority of the time, it is these sudden changes that are causing the problem - I am convinced this is hormonal, I don't recall anyone picking up on that? .......................
 
Thank you, I have been trying for 2 weeks to get a response from the Northern Borzoi Association because he needs to be in a better place for his benefit. I cannot just give him to a rescue, he would be mortified he would benefit from going from me directly to a new home. They don't do that they mess around take them away from home plonk them in somewhere else then find a home which may or may not be suitable! His breeder would have taken him back had he been well, but he isnt so he can't so I'm stuffed as is Robin!
 
They dont just plonk them somewhere it would irresponsible of them to just rehome him to a home with the problems there are ...they have to find a foster place and asses him and see if the problem actually lies with Robin or you ...
I have taken in numerous sighthounds deemed awful and dangerous by previous owners to not be that bad in a different environment...
Did you contact the lady I gave you her email ...
 
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