Sooty Sam

[nigelmcfc]

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To me it doesn`t matter what size a whippet is , as long as it is sound and capable of doing the job it was bred for in the field it doesn`t matter whether it`s 17 in or 21 in, I don`t show whippets btw

Sooty Sam (to get back to the original post) was a largish whippet at around 23in , but he could work day and night , he has sired many other great workers, to me that`s it end of story

 

[midlanderkeith]

To me it doesn`t matter what size a whippet is , as long as it is sound and capable of doing the job it was bred for in the field it doesn`t matter whether it`s 17 in or 21 in, I don`t show whippets btw
Sooty Sam (to get back to the original post) was a largish whippet at around 23in , but he could work day and night , he has sired many other great workers, to me that`s it end of story

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Hey up nigel, hows you. read your post the other day about your gypsy was it, marking dry stone walls. mines exactly the same she misses nowt, hooking nose on her

keith :cheers:

 

[nigelmcfc]

Hey up nigel, hows you. read your post the other day about your gypsy was it, marking dry stone walls. mines exactly the same she misses nowt, hooking nose on her

keith :cheers:

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HI Keith, Gypsy`s doing great , her nose is incredible she hasn`t been wrong yet , she`s just coming up to 11 months old and is getting used to working with the ferrets ,shes caught a few rabbits during the day, not had her out on the lamp yet , might give her a try very soon...

 

[Lakey]

All well and good but how many smaller type of whippets win in shows ?
Lets start shipping them all in from the USA and adopt the USA breed standard becasue the English type Whippet is fast becoming a thing of the past in the English show scene  :rant:

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There is no 'smaller' type. Height has nothing to do with breed type and I would disagree that the majority of Whippets seen in the British show ring at present are Americanised.

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If height has nothing to do with it why is it stipulated in the breed standard ?????????

Please get real

This type of debate with size should be on the showing thread, sorry for going off on one on a working whippet thread :b

 

[masta]

All well and good but how many smaller type of whippets win in shows ?
Lets start shipping them all in from the USA and adopt the USA breed standard becasue the English type Whippet is fast becoming a thing of the past in the English show scene  :rant:

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There is no 'smaller' type. Height has nothing to do with breed type and I would disagree that the majority of Whippets seen in the British show ring at present are Americanised.

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If height has nothing to do with it why is it stipulated in the breed standard ?????????

Please get real

This type of debate with size should be on the showing thread, sorry for going off on one on a working whippet thread :b

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because as with most showing the breed standard is adjustable bearing on who's judging,and who's on the other end of the lead

 

[CHRIS DOYLE]

All well and good but how many smaller type of whippets win in shows ?
Lets start shipping them all in from the USA and adopt the USA breed standard becasue the English type Whippet is fast becoming a thing of the past in the English show scene  :rant:

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There is no 'smaller' type. Height has nothing to do with breed type and I would disagree that the majority of Whippets seen in the British show ring at present are Americanised.

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If height has nothing to do with it why is it stipulated in the breed standard ?????????

Please get real

This type of debate with size should be on the showing thread, sorry for going off on one on a working whippet thread :b

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because as with most showing the breed standard is adjustable bearing on who's judging,and who's on the other end of the lead

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I like Masta's previous comment :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

 

[Mark Roberts]

I feel this threads valid here as Sooty Sam was a working dogs and as far as i'm aware he never showed of raced.

if you want a big dog for working get a whippet/greyhound, once a whippet gets to big it looses all the whippet style of running\action and looks more like a greyhound/lurcher.

 

[*Lesley*]

There are big and small in everything :- "

Relatives of Sooty sam

A small one :wub:

 

[*Lesley*]

A big one :wub:

 

[beaker]

I feel this threads valid here as Sooty Sam was a working dogs and as far as i'm aware he never showed of raced.
if you want a big dog for working get a whippet/greyhound, once a whippet gets to big it looses all the whippet style of running\action and looks more like a greyhound/lurcher.

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agree with you here mark, just because a dog is worked and looks/size aren't that important to a working dog, doesn't mean that you should loose sight of what a whippet should be,

besides, there are some dogs with sooty sam in their pedigrees that are in the show ring :thumbsup:

i love this bit from "the english whippet"...

"The Whippet Standard lays down what a whippet should look like but unless one has knowledge of why a whippet should look like the standard one has no basis for judgement of one's own or other people's dogs" :thumbsup:

 

[dessie]

I feel this threads valid here as Sooty Sam was a working dogs and as far as i'm aware he never showed of raced.
if you want a big dog for working get a whippet/greyhound, once a whippet gets to big it looses all the whippet style of running\action and looks more like a greyhound/lurcher.

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agree with you here mark, just because a dog is worked and looks/size aren't that important to a working dog, doesn't mean that you should loose sight of what a whippet should be,

besides, there are some dogs with sooty sam in their pedigrees that are in the show ring :thumbsup:

i love this bit from "the english whippet"...

"The Whippet Standard lays down what a whippet should look like but unless one has knowledge of why a whippet should look like the standard one has no basis for judgement of one's own or other people's dogs" :thumbsup:

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Precisely, I just take exception to those who do not show their Whippets blaming judges for what they look like. Whippets are Whippets and if they are Kennel Club registered they should all conform to the same standard whether they are shown, raced, coursed or worked. Unfortunately though, people who show are NOT the only ones to pay scant regard to the standard, height being only one contentious point. How about ears, tails, upright shoulders, no spring of rib, lack of depth etc, you could go through the whole standard. The proviso at the end of the standard about faults is applicable to the WHOLE standard and not just height so please do not quote out of context either.

But I would repeat again, the KC standard is only a description of what any breed looks like, its temperament etc etc. It is not written in stone and it is open to people's interpretation and we all see things differently. And, like it or not, change does happen.

 

[sparky]

this has gone a little off topic from the posters origanal question. -_-

 

[larruu]

HEAR, HEAR DESSIE - BEING A BIT ON THE TALL SIZE DOESN'T SLOW A DOG UNLIKE OTHER FAULTS MAY. I GET FED UP WITH PEOPLE BANGING ON ABOUT HEIGHT

 

[BeeJay]

"The Whippet Standard lays down what a whippet should look like but unless one has knowledge of why a whippet should look like the standard one has no basis for judgement of one's own or other people's dogs"

Ah but. The breed standard changes from time to time and who are the people who are changing it? Seems to me that they are the show folks. So over time if there is NO input from the 'working' and racing folks then the breed standard will change to fit the show bred whippet. And IMO it will continue to move away from producing a performance whippet.

 

[dessie]

"The Whippet Standard lays down what a whippet should look like but unless one has knowledge of why a whippet should look like the standard one has no basis for judgement of one's own or other people's dogs"
Ah but.  The breed standard changes from time to time and who are the people who are changing it?  Seems to me that they are the show folks.  So over time if there is NO input from the 'working' and racing folks then the breed standard will change to fit the show bred whippet.  And IMO it will continue to move away from producing a performance whippet.

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The last time THE KENNEL CLUB wanted to review all breed standards (not just Whippets) they did so via the Breed Council, with representatives from all the breed clubs in consultation with their membership plus there was an open meeting that any interested party could attend, put forward/listen to suggestions and debate them. The proposed amendments were then put forward by the Breed Council to the Kennel Club, who then decided what they, the Kennel Club, would or would not amend.

Probably most who attended that open meeting were people who show their whippets which suggests to me that people from other fraternities either weren't interested or couldn't be bothered. The opportunity was there to have your say, don't whinge if you did not take it.

 

[dessie]

And IMO it will continue to move away from producing a performance whippet.

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What do you mean by 'performance whippet'????

Whippets were evolved to hunt and catch small beasties like rabbits. My Whippets are perfectly capable of doing that.

 

[Mark Roberts]

[SIZE=14pt]JUST IN CASE ANYONES FORGOT WHAT THE ORIGINAL POSTER ASKED[/SIZE]

I have recently become the proud owner of a whippet whose pedigree figures Sooty Sam heavily. Noticed the advert in Countrymans Weekly. Can anybody shed any light on who he is/was?

 

[BeeJay]

At least the question did get answered before we went off topic.

He was a big, black whippet whose descendants have become very well known in working whippet circles because they make great working dogs.

 

[mally]

And IMO it will continue to move away from producing a performance whippet.

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What do you mean by 'performance whippet'????

Whippets were evolved to hunt and catch small beasties like rabbits. My Whippets are perfectly capable of doing that.

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Having been to a few shows recently, many of the whippets i saw were over weight and had no muscle tone whatsoever IMO the only things they would ever catch is a cold in there condition. However if they were in a fit condition i would not dispute there ability to catch the odd rabbit.

I would never keep a whippet if it wasn't doing what it was bred for Racing or working. I'm taking Jess ratting in the morning another job whippets are really good at.

 

[glennSKii]

I have recently become the proud owner of a whippet whose pedigree figures Sooty Sam heavily. Noticed the advert in Countrymans Weekly. Can anybody shed any light on who he is/was?

He was very heavily used in breeding. here are the offspring so far attributed to him on "the whippet archives"

Arrow Blue

Badger Boy

Beautiful Lady

Berwyn Black Boy

Black Ace

Black And White Racer

Black Arrow

Black As Coal

Black Billy

Black Cherub

Black Flapper

Black Huntsman

Black Lace Princess

Black Lamper

Black Mandy

Black Striker

Blue Eddy

Blue Rabbiter

Blue Racer

Blue Ratter

Born Black

Boy Delight Of Vanya

Brendans Lady

Cariad Fine Lady

Celtic Welsh Pride

Clwyd Charmer

Crescents Lass

Danny's Flyer

Fall Guy

Fancy Flyer

Fast Fly

Fast Lady from Meliden

Ffordd Lad

Fighting Chance

Fly's Girl

Fosseland Hawk Fly By Night

Fox Chaser

Garden's Lane Girl

Good King Of The Blues

Honey Spring

Hot Muffin

Ian's Flyler

Jenmie-Boy

Jenny's Girl

Jenny's Lass

Kenex Blue Bell

Kenex Oddblue

Kenex Samfly

Kenzed Bobslad

Kenzed Caper

Kenzed Lastlad

Kenzed Tezlady

Lad of Meliden

Lady Of The Night

Lamper Two

Lamplight Black Fan

Lillys Lass

Little Annie

Little Molly

Long Run

Mandys Boy

Meliden's Lass

Micjen Girl

Midnight Man

Mikey's Little Lady

Minstral Flyer

Motown Magic

Mountains Lad

Mystic Sight

Neath's Nice Boy

Norker Two

Panda Lad

Perfect Pet

Perfect Pitch

Pretty Little Ebony Queen

Quick As Lightening

Rabbit Rouser

Rabbit Runner

Ratter One

Regency Royal Fox

Road Racer

Runner Rabbit

Sam Sally of Niisyf

Smokey Worker

Sooty Honey

Special Little Rat

Spritely Rabbit

Stokes Rabbitter

Supa Blue

Sweets For My Sweet

Ta's Bell Of The Ball

Tala'goch's Lad

Tobys Girl

Trap Blue

Whipper In

White Face

Will's Wonder

Winter Girl

Wirey Black Prince

Wonderful Dark Guy

Worker One

This is just the sons and daughters. Imagine how many offspring this list created! I can only hope that no one will ever stud out a dog so many times as this in the future.

His pedigree is listed here:http://thewhippetarchives.net/details.php?id=8859