18mth old Lab - Accidents in the house

[kgarthwaite]

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Hi, first time poster on here, hoping someone will be able to help.

Our Fox Red Lab is 18 months old and we got past the usual house training when he was really young. Never had any other problems in the house....until randomly a couple of months ago. Now we come downstairs to a 'treat' practically every morning.

Nothing in that time appears to have changed. Same routines, same food, same everything. He usually gets 3 walks a day and that was always enough. We started taking him out again just before bed (which I felt was overkill, but we had to try something), but even that is hit and miss - still over half of the time he does it. It's always cold by the morning as well which suggests he wasn't 'hanging on' for us to come down in the morning, he's doing this in the middle of the night. He's also started sleeping on the couch when we're not around, which we have never allowed and he knows he shouldn't be doing - that might be a factor in all of this, it might not, but thought I'd throw it into the mix (the couch is easily wiped down and it's less frequent than the other thing so I'm less concerned by it).

If anyone has any thoughts on why he might be doing this and what we might be able to do to stop it I'd hugely appreciate it. We're staying at my brother's house over Christmas and I'd really like him to get out of this phase before then as we don't want to have to clean that up before opening our actual presents!

 

[JudyN]

I'd suggest a vet check - a uti is a possibility. Also, what time does he has his last meal? Sometimes by delaying the last meal you can delay the time when he needs to 'go' - or if you feed him earlier than usual, he might go before bedtime.

It might help if he's allowed to sleep on the sofa at night - if he thinks that's the nicest place to sleep, he might sleep more soundly there. Would it be possible to put a throw on it so you don't have to worry about him making it grubby and hairy?

 

[JoanneF]

Can I ask, how do you react when he has an accident?

 

[kgarthwaite]

I'd suggest a vet check - a uti is a possibility. Also, what time does he has his last meal? Sometimes by delaying the last meal you can delay the time when he needs to 'go' - or if you feed him earlier than usual, he might go before bedtime.

It might help if he's allowed to sleep on the sofa at night - if he thinks that's the nicest place to sleep, he might sleep more soundly there. Would it be possible to put a throw on it so you don't have to worry about him making it grubby and hairy?

He used to eat his food as soon as it was put down, but now he eats some of it and then comes back to the rest later, which could be a factor. Might it be worthwhile us taking his food away after a certain time? Or not feeding him until later so that he's not 'ready' to 'go' until the morning?

He sleeps very soundly on his own bed, which is very comfortable. I don't want to encourage sleeping on the couch in that room, otherwise he might think he can sleep on the couch elsewhere (for example at my brothers house when we go there at Xmas)

 

[kgarthwaite]

Can I ask, how do you react when he has an accident?

I've only 'told him off' for it a couple of times, when he's been out just before bed and still done it during the night. Other than that he just gets a disappointed look or comment. From the very first time he did it, he's always known it was bad and he's incredibly sheepish when we come down. Even when he hasn't done it, he's still very sheepish until we've checked the area and then he'll go wild!

 

[JoanneF]

I've only 'told him off' for it a couple of times, when he's been out just before bed and still done it during the night. Other than that he just gets a disappointed look or comment. From the very first time he did it, he's always known it was bad and he's incredibly sheepish when we come down. Even when he hasn't done it, he's still very sheepish until we've checked the area and then he'll go wild!

This could be contributing to the problem. Dogs are very tuned into our body language and your reaction to his accidents isn't making him guilty or sheepish - what we interpret as that is almost always appeasement behaviour. Dogs don't do 'bad', they just do what works for them.

He knows you are unhappy, so in his mind, the best way of not contributing to your unhappiness is for him to toilet when you aren't there. Simple solution for him, 'if my human doesn't see me toilet, he won't get cross with me'.

Hard as it is, try not to react at all to accidents.

 

[JudyN]

As he was OK when he ate all his food in one go, I would try lifting his meal after, say, 20 mins if he hasn't finished, it. Though as he's less keen to eat, also check that his appetite & general health are OK, and that you're not actually feeding him too much.

Cheaper food contains a lot of filler, and of course the more goes in, the more comes out - if you are feeding a food that contains grain, consider changing to grain-free or raw.

I agree with JoanneF that telling him off isn't a good idea. He's unlikely to connect your annoyance with the actual act of pooing. I would even greet him and make a fuss of him in the morning before checking for accidents, and then check when he's out of the room so he doesn't sense your annoyance.

 

[kgarthwaite]

Thanks both, interesting. I'll try reacting differently and see what that does. I didn't think of him doing it on a night specifically so that it was when we're not around to see him.

The change in his eating habits pre-dates this current issue (he was ill last winter and changed his habits once he was better again). He's getting no more or less than he used to, it's just been a change in how and when he eats. We'll look at his food though as I've no idea if it contains grain or not and take it from there

 

[Hemlock]

Commercial food often changes its ingredients to go with whatever is cheapest at the time. Might be something he's reacting to there.

You can try feeding him earlier or later, see if that makes a difference, as JudyN said earlier in the thread. He isn't doing it to annoy you. Do you accompany him outside for last ablutions or just put him outside and assume he'll go?

 

[kgarthwaite]

Commercial food often changes its ingredients to go with whatever is cheapest at the time. Might be something he's reacting to there.

You can try feeding him earlier or later, see if that makes a difference, as JudyN said earlier in the thread. He isn't doing it to annoy you. Do you accompany him outside for last ablutions or just put him outside and assume he'll go?

We take him out for a walk. If we just let him out in the garden he doesn’t do anything. It’s a pain though especially at this time of year, especially when he already gets 3 walks a day and it was never needed before. Hopefully once we try out some of the suggestions we’ll not need to take him out a 4th time any more

 

[JoPin]

Hi, first time poster on here, hoping someone will be able to help.

Our Fox Red Lab is 18 months old and we got past the usual house training when he was really young. Never had any other problems in the house....until randomly a couple of months ago. Now we come downstairs to a 'treat' practically every morning.

Nothing in that time appears to have changed. Same routines, same food, same everything. He usually gets 3 walks a day and that was always enough. We started taking him out again just before bed (which I felt was overkill, but we had to try something), but even that is hit and miss - still over half of the time he does it. It's always cold by the morning as well which suggests he wasn't 'hanging on' for us to come down in the morning, he's doing this in the middle of the night. He's also started sleeping on the couch when we're not around, which we have never allowed and he knows he shouldn't be doing - that might be a factor in all of this, it might not, but thought I'd throw it into the mix (the couch is easily wiped down and it's less frequent than the other thing so I'm less concerned by it).

If anyone has any thoughts on why he might be doing this and what we might be able to do to stop it I'd hugely appreciate it. We're staying at my brother's house over Christmas and I'd really like him to get out of this phase before then as we don't want to have to clean that up before opening our actual presents!

No particular advice unfortunately but my 18 month old flat coated retriever has recently started doing the same. We've tried lots of things so far which all seem to work for a short time or even a month or so but then he starts again.

 

[kgarthwaite]

No particular advice unfortunately but my 18 month old flat coated retriever has recently started doing the same. We've tried lots of things so far which all seem to work for a short time or even a month or so but then he starts again.

What things have worked for you, even if only for a short amount of time? We've been taking his food away on an evening as per the comments above and things have improved, but he's still doing it on certain nights. It's hard to truly judge though as we've had a busy couple of weeks and his usual routines aren't being adhered to

 

[JoPin]

We tried changing his meal time and restricting his water after a certain time (his accidents are mostly wees). We let him sleep in our room for a couple of nights to make sure it wasn't a case of him not being able to hold it in but he slept soundly with no accidents then was fine for a few days when we moved him back to his normal spot. Tried letting him out every 45 minss in the evening to have wees and getting up in the night to let him out too. He seemed to be going in one particular place even though we were using the enzyme cleaner which had always worked before so we blocked access to that area using a bench and some chairs. That was the most effective and he was fine for over a month but he's just started weeing in other areas this week again. It doesn't seem to be a separation or anxiety thing as he goes happily to bed and doesn't do it if left alone during the day or evening and he has our other dog for company who is his best pal so it's a mystery.

 

[Feverfew]

Some very good advice on here, primarily doing health checks, as it sounds as if he may be unwell, and also looking at the quality of his food and not letting him know how annoying you find it!
If health concerns are ruled out, you could think about communication with your dog: are you reading his questions and requests correctly throughout your time with him across the board? Because I think that in trying (understandably) to anticipate when he wants to go to the toilet (e.g., three walks a day, evening walks), you may be overlooking his attempts to communicate with you outside that routine.
I encountered a similar situation with a terrier who despite being house-trained, started urinating at night at around 13 months, which later spread to daytime as well, even if her human companions were present. They had prevented overnight urinating by shutting her in a crate, but the daytime problem then escalated, pointing to an emotional problem rather than a physical one.
We addressed it by looking for any small signs of communication she had with her humans, about anything - wanting to eat, wanting to go outside, wanting to get on the settee. It might be a tiny glance at the settee for example, but her humans would then offer her various options, some of them intentionally incorrect, such as offering to open a cupboard door when the dog was intent on going outside. Her human then 'corrected' herself and opened the back door instead to let the dog go outside.
What this did was build up a certain degree of perseverance on the dog's part in making requests and communicating her needs to her humans. More importantly, I believe the dog now benefitted from knowing she would be listened to, and that she could communicate her needs and they would be heard.
It took only a week for the urinating to stop, without use of the crate. And although it sounds a bit off the wall, I have since used it with other dogs and it has solved several other behavioural problems, including isolation distress. It was combined with a lot of work on confidence, e.g. longline walking rather than letting her deal with unfamiliar dogs on her walks, and lots of days off doing enrichment etc, but essentially improving communication between the human and the dogs made life better for everyone!