2nd Wcra Champs

[Rob Rixon]

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Analysing the data from the draw of the balls I can say that Paul Chappell got the draw as Random as can be considered possible. No owner drew their own colour more than would be expected and no bias was noted with the draw of a particular colour out first (or last).

Below is the table of the draw for the last 8 groups where all four balls were in the bag.

The first group did not have 4 runners and therefore not all balls were in the bag.

1-1 3 2-1 1 3-1 3 4-1 1

1-2 2 2-2 2 3-2 2 4-2 2

1-3 0 2-3 4 3-3 2 4-3 2

1-4 3 2-4 1 3-4 1 4-4 3

Key to the table 1-1 = Trap 1 to draw Red was 3 times

also 2-3 4 = Trap 2 to draw white was 4 times

To be totally even each draw should have happened twice - had this happen the draw would not be considered as Random. :teehee:

 

[bertha]

Analysing the data from the draw of the balls I can say that Paul Chappell got the draw as Random as can be considered possible. No owner drew their own colour more than would be expected and no bias was noted with the draw of a particular colour out first (or last).Below is the table of the draw for the last 8 groups where all four balls were in the bag.

The first group did not have 4 runners and therefore not all balls were in the bag.

1-1 3 2-1 1 3-1 3 4-1 1

1-2 2 2-2 2 3-2 2 4-2 2

1-3 0 2-3 4 3-3 2 4-3 2

1-4 3 2-4 1 3-4 1 4-4 3

Key to the table 1-1 = Trap 1 to draw Red was 3 times

also 2-3 4 = Trap 2 to draw white was 4 times

To be totally even each draw should have happened twice - had this happen the draw would not be considered as Random. :teehee:

Must be thick, what are you getting at???????????

 

[Garry Comber]

Analysing the data from the draw of the balls I can say that Paul Chappell got the draw as Random as can be considered possible. No owner drew their own colour more than would be expected and no bias was noted with the draw of a particular colour out first (or last).Below is the table of the draw for the last 8 groups where all four balls were in the bag.

The first group did not have 4 runners and therefore not all balls were in the bag.

1-1 3 2-1 1 3-1 3 4-1 1

1-2 2 2-2 2 3-2 2 4-2 2

1-3 0 2-3 4 3-3 2 4-3 2

1-4 3 2-4 1 3-4 1 4-4 3

Key to the table 1-1 = Trap 1 to draw Red was 3 times

also 2-3 4 = Trap 2 to draw white was 4 times

To be totally even each draw should have happened twice - had this happen the draw would not be considered as Random. :teehee:

Thanks for sharing this data with us all Rob.

It did take some thinking about, :sweating: but I think I got it now, is this right?

1 coat-red ball 3 times. 2 coat-red ball 1 time. 3 coat-red ball 3 times. 4 coat-red ball 1 time.

1 coat-blue ball 2 times. 2 coat-blue ball 2 times. 3 coat-blue ball 2 times. 4 coat-blue ball 2 times.

1 coat-white ball 0 times. 2 coat-white ball 4 times. 3 coat-white ball 2 times. 4 coat-white ball 2 times.

1 coat-black ball 3 times. 2 coat-black ball 1 time. 3 coat-black ball 1 time. 4 coat-black ball 3 times.

 

[bertha]

Analysing the data from the draw of the balls I can say that Paul Chappell got the draw as Random as can be considered possible. No owner drew their own colour more than would be expected and no bias was noted with the draw of a particular colour out first (or last).Below is the table of the draw for the last 8 groups where all four balls were in the bag.

The first group did not have 4 runners and therefore not all balls were in the bag.

1-1 3 2-1 1 3-1 3 4-1 1

1-2 2 2-2 2 3-2 2 4-2 2

1-3 0 2-3 4 3-3 2 4-3 2

1-4 3 2-4 1 3-4 1 4-4 3

Key to the table 1-1 = Trap 1 to draw Red was 3 times

also 2-3 4 = Trap 2 to draw white was 4 times

To be totally even each draw should have happened twice - had this happen the draw would not be considered as Random. :teehee:

Thanks for sharing this data with us all Rob.

It did take some thinking about, :sweating: but I think I got it now, is this right?

1 coat-red ball 3 times. 2 coat-red ball 1 time. 3 coat-red ball 3 times. 4 coat-red ball 1 time.

1 coat-blue ball 2 times. 2 coat-blue ball 2 times. 3 coat-blue ball 2 times. 4 coat-blue ball 2 times.

1 coat-white ball 0 times. 2 coat-white ball 4 times. 3 coat-white ball 2 times. 4 coat-white ball 2 times.

1 coat-black ball 3 times. 2 coat-black ball 1 time. 3 coat-black ball 1 time. 4 coat-black ball 3 times.

Thank you Garry! Now I understand. )

 

[lynxexpress]

Analysing the data from the draw of the balls I can say that Paul Chappell got the draw as Random as can be considered possible. No owner drew their own colour more than would be expected and no bias was noted with the draw of a particular colour out first (or last).Below is the table of the draw for the last 8 groups where all four balls were in the bag.

The first group did not have 4 runners and therefore not all balls were in the bag.

1-1 3 2-1 1 3-1 3 4-1 1

1-2 2 2-2 2 3-2 2 4-2 2

1-3 0 2-3 4 3-3 2 4-3 2

1-4 3 2-4 1 3-4 1 4-4 3

Key to the table 1-1 = Trap 1 to draw Red was 3 times

also 2-3 4 = Trap 2 to draw white was 4 times

To be totally even each draw should have happened twice - had this happen the draw would not be considered as Random. :teehee:

Thanks for sharing this data with us all Rob.

It did take some thinking about, :sweating: but I think I got it now, is this right?

1 coat-red ball 3 times. 2 coat-red ball 1 time. 3 coat-red ball 3 times. 4 coat-red ball 1 time.

1 coat-blue ball 2 times. 2 coat-blue ball 2 times. 3 coat-blue ball 2 times. 4 coat-blue ball 2 times.

1 coat-white ball 0 times. 2 coat-white ball 4 times. 3 coat-white ball 2 times. 4 coat-white ball 2 times.

1 coat-black ball 3 times. 2 coat-black ball 1 time. 3 coat-black ball 1 time. 4 coat-black ball 3 times.

Thank you Garry! Now I understand. )

Why do we have to make things so complicated why dont we just do the draw like we used to do and let it run its course.

If it aint broke dont fix it.

 

[Rob Rixon]

Why do we have to make things so complicated why dont we just do the draw like we used to do and let it run its course.If it aint broke dont fix it.

Hi Lyn

Don't think anyone has suggested that its broken.

It is just trying to have a level playing field for all runners.

But I note you are not keen on the draw for the final traps - what do others think.

 

[Carol Brown]

What a waste of time this has been.

Shame the person calculating this was not doing a more neady job on the day.

Oxford devised picking the ball out of the hat for Open Finals years ago with a much simplified method.

The colour ball you pick out of the hat is the trap you go in, not done in the way it is done now.

Last year when my dog reached the final the balls were lost, so you went in the trap on the program ruling given by the stand in Race Manager on the day.

There fore you do to all or not at all.

 

[Rob Rixon]

What a waste of time this has been.Shame the person calculating this was not doing a more neady job on the day.

Oxford devised picking the ball out of the hat for Open Finals years ago with a much simplified method.

The colour ball you pick out of the hat is the trap you go in, not done in the way it is done now.

Last year when my dog reached the final the balls were lost, so you went in the trap on the program ruling given by the stand in Race Manager on the day.

There fore you do to all or not at all.

Not sure if Paul reads K9 any more so in his defence.

As Racing Manager Paul Chappell felt that the fair way to do the draw is that you pick the colour of the coated dog that will go into the traps in turn - If fact this is the German way the draw is done. The committee agreed to the final trap draw and left the method to the Racing Manager.

Last year Paul couldn't make the Championship so someone else had to stand in - at the last minute.

In the French Open circuit, I can confirm the owners draw their own dog's traps - after known wide runners are removed from the draw. Like the old Oxford club.

Either way its Random. my point was to analyse the draw, not done on the day but at home during this last week.

I'm fairly sure Paul will be consistent with the way he likes the draw none - but who knows.

I agree with you Carol.

 

[Daywalker]

Hi,

I don't normally get involved in these discussions, but just had a query...

In the program my dog would have been in trap 2 in the final had the original method (i.e. the natural following on from the draw in the heats) so when the program is filled out that's where he was drawn. However at the traps he was then drawn in trap 4 - I always catch so I don't know the procedure - so then obviously that's the way the cookie crumbles etc.... (although a little disappointing as you feel your dog has been disadvantaged in certain cases e.g. on a bend or if drawn next to a dog that has a preference to the other side of your dog & gets bumped etc...)

...but then when my passport is returned the entry in the back says he was in trap 2 - and that's not a true reflection of where he was actually drawn on the day? Just wondering why it's not updated as to the trap they actually ran out of rather than the jacket they are wearing (as the column in the passport says trap) ...or should there be another passport column for jacket also?

Just my ponderings???!

Thanks

Gemma

 

[Garry Comber]

Hi, I don't normally get involved in these discussions, but just had a query...

In the program my dog would have been in trap 2 in the final had the original method (i.e. the natural following on from the draw in the heats) so when the program is filled out that's where he was drawn. However at the traps he was then drawn in trap 4 - I always catch so I don't know the procedure so then obviously that's the way the cookie crumbles etc.... (although a little disappointing as you feel your dog has been disadvantaged in certain cases e.g. on a bend or if drawn next to a dog that has a preference to the other side of your dog & gets bumped etc...)

Thanks

Gemma

With regard to the trap drawer for the finals this is how I believe it works;

As you were in the blue coat (number 2), you would have picked the second ball

The ball you picked would then have been placed on the second trap, regardless of colour (i.e. second ball=second trap)

Then when all the balls have been drawn the dogs go to the trap where the ball on the trap matches their coat colour..

If your coat colour (blue) had been the last drawn out of the bag it would have been placed on the 4 trap which your dog would have ran from

Hope this is clearer now, I can’t shed any light on the entries in the passport however

 

[stranger]

Hello england

i am from france i know rob rixon he is coming in my club in Liverdy near paris i hoppe everything is ok rob ?

just to tell you that now all over europe when your dog is a wide runner it's writting on the racingbook of the dog and when this dog is engaged anywere then he will allways have the outside box for each race allways ,for the others of the race most of the club have now such things like the loto nobody is drawing the balls they fall down like maybe the blue ball fall first then the dog with the blue jacquet will have the box one and so i don't know if it's a part of your topics because i m not so sure to understand evrything but i try it's good for me !!!hi!hi!sorry for my english also

bye :lol:

 

[Rob Rixon]

Hello england
i am from france i know rob rixon he is coming in my club in Liverdy near paris i hoppe everything is ok rob ?

just to tell you that now all over europe when your dog is a wide runner it's writting on the racingbook of the dog and when this dog is engaged anywere then he will allways have the outside box for each race allways ,for the others of the race most of the club have now such things like the loto nobody is drawing the balls they fall down like maybe the blue ball fall first then the dog with the blue jacquet will have the box one and so i don't know if it's a part of your topics because i m not so sure to understand evrything but i try it's good for me !!!hi!hi!sorry for my english also

bye :lol:

Hi Stranger - you English is good, please use K9 for your comments - we can understand you!!

We hope the racing at Liverdy is going well.

When in France we raced at the Opens at Parigne l'Eveque near le Mans where the balls were draw from a bag after the wide runners colours were with drawn. We have also raced in other countries where the draw is different.

In the UK Directional Seeding marks racing passports with wide runners but this is only rarely used

I know this is old news but below is the draw device we saw used in Belgium.

Rob..