A Question.!

[scotty wong]

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hi ya.now i've done a search and had a read up but am still a bit confused. what i'm trying to work out is how much difference is there between the show/race and courseing types?

i would guess the show would be most different(although i notice no where near as in many other breeds eg. the gun dogs) but is there a great diference in the race and courseing? and is it possible to have both or a working(just a bit if fun work) and race etc in the same dog ? not in a serious way just for fun and exercise.

i'be read about it some and have got weights and bone strength all over the place!!!! (w00t)

cheers scotty

 

[jean.dunbar]

Hi Scottie,

I feel strongly that Whippets are bred for running and should therefore run whatever else they do. Many people disagree with me and I don't think you'll ever get a consenus. I run and show the same dogs: ofen on the same weekend, sometimes on the same day! There is only one breed standard to which all Whippets should aspire.

Jean.

 

[lurcherman]

there could be a reason why they are fast and agile and thats to catch rabbits and put food on the table for their master.. i can just taste that bunny pie now oooooom lovely..

 

[Strike Whippets]

You are able to race ANY type of Whippet as long as it fits into the size and weight limits..........Show breds are often too big to race and are much slower than racing breds .........The proper coursing breds are slotted inbetween show breds and racers speed wise, but again in some lines they go over size/weight .........It depends on what you seriously want to do with a Whippet as to what type you own .......I say for running or working you can't beat a racer, but for showing they'll look a tad silly .........then overall I think a good racer is complete class .......Fast, original and well constructed

 

[*Lesley*]

I have 2 show breds and 2 coursing bred all race and lure course(kane's just starting out)speed and build wise they are all different even the sisters ,I think a whippet will have a go at what ever you want it to and you can tell from them whether they are enjoying that way or not I'm pretty sure mine enjoy what they do :thumbsup:

Got 2 ferrets coming in August so we will see if they like the working life too

 

[scotty wong]

thanks for the replys.that seems farely straight forward.are the race lot smaller ?sorry to sound thick but have seen so many differnet sizes about some looking small and fragile( :unsure: )which i presumed to be the show(not sure why i thought that) but sounds if they was'nt. and some like small greyhounds(but better shape) which i thought would be racers or coursers as usually taller means faster!! but have now read its atrade of between weight and strenght?

cheers scotty

 

[Lloyd]

thanks for the replys.that seems farely straight forward.are the race lot smaller ?sorry to sound thick but have seen so many differnet sizes about some looking small and fragile( :unsure: )which i presumed to be the show(not sure why i thought that) but sounds if they was'nt. and some like small greyhounds(but better shape) which i thought would be racers or coursers as usually taller means faster!! but have now read its atrade of between weight and strenght?

cheers scotty

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I've got a show bred and a racer, they both love to chase things, just enjoy your dog, whatever the breeding, doing what it should do :thumbsup:

 

[scotty wong]

cheers all.will keep asking the people i see about where they got theres from until i work out what size etc i would like!!

cheers again scotty

 

[BeeJay]

Part of your problem I suspect is the difference between different bloodlines rather than just what the dogs are bred for.

Once you get your eye into the different show lines then there is a wide difference between them. Even amongst the dogs that are considered show quality.

With the racing bred dogs I personally think that there is an even wider difference.

Basically show breds are bred to succeed in the show ring AND to conform to the breed standard.

Coursing breds are bred to be under 20" in height which is the max that they can be and to perform well on the coursing field. Also many of them do well in the show ring. They have to be able to cope with the rigours of hunting over a variety of ground conditions.

The racing breds have disqualifications. They can't be under 14lbs or over 32lbs. Dogs can't be over 21' and bitches over 20'. Above all else they have to be fast, not fight on the track, not stop on the track and be strong enough to cope with the rigours of running flat (at their physical limit) out for a maximum of 200 yards straight and 240 yard bend and have enough stamina to do that and win over 4 rounds or even 5 if there are Supremes.

I race all of my whippets. I have 3 show/coursing breds and 2 racing breds. The racing breds are faster. Well much faster. Forget the weight issue they are simply faster. And why wouldn't they be when they have been carefully selected for speed and ability to race. However I have a lot of fun racing my show breds and they enjoy it too. Oh and all of my whippets are big. They range from 27lbs to 32lbs and from 19.25" in height to 20.5".

The black dog in my avatar has been placed repeatedly at Champ show level, is a terrible cheat at lure coursing, has won a 400 yard hill sprint and last Sunday in his first race meeting he won the Veteran Cons Final at the Independant Straight Open from off the back. He is show/coursing bred.

I forgot that he has his KC Silver Good Citizen award and is a fanatical hunter.

 

[scotty wong]

:cheers: :cheers: (w00t) now thats mad it clear thanks very much very helpfull.

scotty :cheers: :cheers:

 

[kim & Tilly]

thanks for the replys.that seems farely straight forward.are the race lot smaller ?sorry to sound thick but have seen so many differnet sizes about some looking small and fragile( :unsure: )which i presumed to be the show(not sure why i thought that) but sounds if they was'nt. and some like small greyhounds(but better shape) which i thought would be racers or coursers as usually taller means faster!! but have now read its atrade of between weight and strenght?

cheers scotty

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I always thought the show bred ones were the small delicate (about to break) ones

but their not, i have a show bred but i race her, she is 30lbs and 19 3/4 at the shoulder, i also have a coursing bred she is smaller and thinner.

Tilly (the show bred) loves racing - Bean (the courser) not so keen

 

[dessie]

Part of your problem I suspect is the difference between different bloodlines rather than just what the dogs are bred for.
Once you get your eye into the different show lines then there is a wide difference between them.  Even amongst the dogs that are considered show quality. 

With the racing bred dogs I personally think that there is an even wider difference. 

Basically show breds are bred to succeed in the show ring AND to conform to the breed standard. 

Coursing breds are bred to be under 20" in height which is the max that they can be and to perform well on the coursing field.  Also many of them do well in the show ring.  They have to be able to cope with the rigours of hunting over a variety of ground conditions.

The racing breds have disqualifications.  They can't be under 14lbs or over 32lbs.  Dogs can't be over 21' and bitches over 20'. Above all else they have to be fast, not fight on the track, not stop on the track and be strong enough to cope with the rigours of running flat (at their physical limit) out for a maximum of 200 yards straight and 240 yard bend and have enough stamina to do that and win over 4 rounds or even 5 if there are Supremes.

I race all of my whippets.  I have 3 show/coursing breds and 2 racing breds.  The racing breds are faster.  Well much faster.  Forget the weight issue they are simply faster.  And why wouldn't they be when they have been carefully selected for speed and ability to race.  However I have a lot of fun racing my show breds and they enjoy it too.  Oh and all of my whippets are big.  They range from 27lbs to 32lbs and from 19.25" in height to 20.5".

The black dog in my avatar has been placed repeatedly at Champ show level, is a terrible cheat at lure coursing, has won a 400 yard hill sprint and last Sunday in his first race meeting he won the Veteran Cons Final at the Independant Straight Open from off the back.  He is show/coursing bred. 

I forgot that he has his KC Silver Good Citizen award and is a fanatical hunter.

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Sorry to pick up on this, but people slag the showdogs off for being too tall (or big as they put it), even though we have no disqualifying points in showing, yet you are saying that the racing fraternity are not using the breed standard heights, which are smaller than those quoted???? I find this a little confusing to say the least

 

[BeeJay]

>Sorry to pick up on this, but people slag the showdogs off for being too tall (or big as they put it), even though we have no disqualifying points in showing, yet you are saying that the racing fraternity are not using the breed standard heights, which are smaller than those quoted???? I find this a little confusing to say the least

:lol: I know Dessie and one guess why they were increased. :lol: Put it this way it wasn't because of the racing or coursing bred dogs but so that people could race their ................... breds. Well that's what I was told AND why there was an increase in the weight allowance up to 32lbs. It still doesn't sit right some whippet racers.

 

[Joanna]

>Sorry to pick up on this, but people slag the showdogs off for being too tall (or big as they put it), even though we have no disqualifying points in showing, yet you are saying that the racing fraternity are not using the breed standard heights, which are smaller than those quoted???? I find this a little confusing to say the least
:lol: I know Dessie and one guess why they were increased.    :lol:   Put it this way it wasn't because of the racing or coursing bred dogs but so that people could race their ...................  breds.  Well that's what I was told AND why there was an increase in the weight allowance up to 32lbs.  It still doesn't sit right some whippet racers.

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What Dessie says is quite true though. As a criteria of pedigree whippet racing, the whippet must be KC registered. Should the breed standard be more of a bench mark for the WCRA rules? I have seen a few whippets who appear much taller than my Archie at 20 1/2 inches that have been successfully passported for racing :- "

 

[BeeJay]

>Sorry to pick up on this, but people slag the showdogs off for being too tall (or big as they put it), even though we have no disqualifying points in showing, yet you are saying that the racing fraternity are not using the breed standard heights, which are smaller than those quoted???? I find this a little confusing to say the least
:lol: I know Dessie and one guess why they were increased.    :lol:    Put it this way it wasn't because of the racing or coursing bred dogs but so that people could race their ...................  breds.  Well that's what I was told AND why there was an increase in the weight allowance up to 32lbs.  It still doesn't sit right some whippet racers.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

What Dessie says is quite true though. As a criteria of pedigree whippet racing, the whippet must be KC registered. Should the breed standard be more of a bench mark for the WCRA rules? I have seen a few whippets who appear much taller than my Archie at 20 1/2 inches that have been successfully passported for racing :- "

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and what I replied was that the racing height's and the weight were raised to cover the show bred whippets Joanna. It wasn't driven by the racers themselves.

We at least have disqualifiers the show folks don't. So if we have them then why don't they?

IMO the breed standard has little if any relevance re racing bred whippets. As the dogs bred to fit the breed standard are so much slower then that would be a backwards step for racing IMO. BTW if the racing height and weight disqualifiers had to be change for the show bred dogs because they don't fit the standard then.................... what does that say about the relevance of the breed standard.

As for dogs appearing to be much bigger than our own. That is so damn tricky. Colour can affect how tall a dog appears, so can back length, how upright the dog is ie how it carries it's head. Then there is the height of the owner too. My dogs look smaller I think because I am so big/tall.

 

[Joanna]

>Sorry to pick up on this, but people slag the showdogs off for being too tall (or big as they put it), even though we have no disqualifying points in showing, yet you are saying that the racing fraternity are not using the breed standard heights, which are smaller than those quoted???? I find this a little confusing to say the least
:lol: I know Dessie and one guess why they were increased.    :lol:    Put it this way it wasn't because of the racing or coursing bred dogs but so that people could race their ...................  breds.  Well that's what I was told AND why there was an increase in the weight allowance up to 32lbs.  It still doesn't sit right some whippet racers.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

What Dessie says is quite true though. As a criteria of pedigree whippet racing, the whippet must be KC registered. Should the breed standard be more of a bench mark for the WCRA rules? I have seen a few whippets who appear much taller than my Archie at 20 1/2 inches that have been successfully passported for racing :- "

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

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and what I replied was that the racing height's and the weight were raised to cover the show bred whippets Joanna. It wasn't driven by the racers themselves.

We at least have disqualifiers the show folks don't. So if we have them then why don't they?

IMO the breed standard has little if any relevance re racing bred whippets. As the dogs bred to fit the breed standard are so much slower then that would be a backwards step for racing IMO. BTW if the racing height and weight disqualifiers had to be change for the show bred dogs because they don't fit the standard then.................... what does that say about the relevance of the breed standard.

As for dogs appearing to be much bigger than our own. That is so damn tricky. Colour can affect how tall a dog appears, so can back length, how upright the dog is ie how it carries it's head. Then there is the height of the owner too. My dogs look smaller I think because I am so big/tall.

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Sorry Barbara, I wasn't disagreeing with you, just playing devil's advocate .

I have always found it quite odd that a pedigree whippet can vary so greatly from a teeny weeny 13 lbs to a massive 42lber.

 

[kim & Tilly]

God if they brough the height down, i wouldnt be able to race

 

[mally]

hi ya.now i've done a search and had a read up but am still a bit confused.   what i'm trying to work out is how much difference is there between the show/race and courseing types?i would guess the show would be most different(although i notice no where near as in many other breeds eg. the gun dogs) but is there a great diference in the race and courseing? and is it possible to have both or a working(just a bit if fun work) and race etc in the same dog ? not in a serious way just for fun and exercise.

i'be read about it some and have got weights and bone strength all over the place!!!!   (w00t)

cheers scotty

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

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Hi scotty Here is a Bitch i bred (Tilly) I work,race and show her and she's doing ok at them all she's 19 1/2" & 27 1/2lb

 

[scotty wong]

what a cracking looking dog there mally!!betthe bunies keep clear of her.hope i didnt offend any one about the "little fragile"coments i didnt mean them in a nasty way!! :- "

scotty

 

[*Lesley*]

thanks for the replys.that seems farely straight forward.are the race lot smaller ?sorry to sound thick but have seen so many differnet sizes about some looking small and fragile( :unsure: )which i presumed to be the show(not sure why i thought that) but sounds if they was'nt. and some like small greyhounds(but better shape) which i thought would be racers or coursers as usually taller means faster!! but have now read its atrade of between weight and strenght?

cheers scotty

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

I always thought the show bred ones were the small delicate (about to break) ones

but their not, i have a show bred but i race her, she is 30lbs and 19 3/4 at the shoulder, i also have a coursing bred she is smaller and thinner.

Tilly (the show bred) loves racing - Bean (the courser) not so keen

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Not so keen (w00t) she's very different from her brother then :unsure: