Advice Please

[saraquele]

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long post BEWARE lol

i would love to know if anyone has any suggestions re Bliss :wub:

as a lot of you have probably seen she is terrible on the lead in the ring :b

its not that she is bouncy but she moves terrible !! gets so OTT that she looks like she is doing the breast stoke coming towards you and doing the "hitler" walk from side on :- "

now Bliss has been well socialised from day one , nothing phases her , she is scared of NOTHING so its not nerves .

she has been going to ring craft for the past 4 months of her life so is used to that .

she pulls like mad on the lead when in the ring so if i go faster to keep up with her , she goes faster :b

if i slow down and try and keep her steady she pulls on the lead which makes her head come up then her whole front end comes up :blink:

ive tried all paces and nothing suits her .

ive tried diffrent show leads but again , no diffrence :b

ive tried serenum ( made her loopy :- " )

rescue remedy and scullcap and valerium :b

at home she is lovely :wub: a typical 8 month old pup but nothing more , she has a wonderfull nature and is a joy to own , she walks well on the lead out on walks .

she has plenty of exercise , road walks and off lead running

she is fed on denes low calorie tinned meat (only thing to keep her weight off ) which is VERY low protein and no addatives and a small amount of low cal james welbeloved , again no addatives .

my options are to either pull her from the ring for now ( she is qualified for crufts 2008 ) and just let her grow up , or keep going but that will probably mean keep getting chucked :b which on her movement fair enough but on her conformation i hate seeing her thrown out

BTW she has EXCELLENT movement trotting round the garden at home but dosent show it in the ring :- "

i have thought about seeing if someone else will take her in at leeds for me , just to see if its me she is playing up :- "

so come on guys

suggestions on a postcard please !!!!!!!!!!!!!

sorry its so long but i wanted to fill you in as much as possible

 

[saraquele]

forgot to say , i do not get angry or annoyed with her and i am not at all nervouse in the ring , may sound sad but to me it is only a day out with my dog and if i get placed great if not theres always next time so it wont be nerves / anger etc going down the lead :thumbsup:

 

[charlene]

My Myy, same age as your Bliss is very much the same. The only thing that works with her is to give her free leach ie. I dont feel her at all in the other end. If I have any control with the leach, she puts her head down and starts to pull. Im sorry, I know I explained badly, but perhaps you understand what I mean.

sounds like you have tried everything though, so :huggles: , sometimes it just takes time. And it IS awful when they show their best in the garden but are just about opposite in the ring.. :teehee:

 

[saraquele]

My Myy, same age as your Bliss is very much the same. The only thing that works with her is to give her free leach ie. I dont feel her at all in the other end. If I have any control with the leach, she puts her head down and starts to pull. Im sorry, I know I explained badly, but perhaps you understand what I mean.
sounds like you have tried everything though, so  :huggles: , sometimes it just takes time.  And it IS awful when they show their best in the garden but are just about opposite in the ring.. :teehee:

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thank you for your reply , i understood perfectly :thumbsup:

i cant give her a free leash as she will just go faster :lol:

 

[kris]

she could be playing you up!my hubs professionally handled a number of dogs and bitches that noone else could do anything with but for him theyd go perfectly!he made it look so easy that once or twice the owners tried to handle them again and what a disaster! :- " what is she like outside the ring when you move her?does she do the same?also i think at the age she is it could be just puppy naughtiness!sometimes its better to take them out for a while,let them grow up a bit then take them back and start again.if shes getting knocked for her movement then its no good forcing it as shes only going to keep going down the line which isnt doing her reputation any good.i only ever showed a dog when it was in A1 condition and well trained and schooled.to do any less was i think to do a disservice to the dog,also people then know when you bring a dog out its to win not to lose so you tend to get a rep for having good dogs that are in excellent condition and that show well.pups do go through stages like this sometimes you need a change of handler sometimes just give them some time.its not the end of the world if they dont show as a pup i had dog i had to wait 2 years to do anything with,but he was worth waiting for. :thumbsup:

 

[saraquele]

she does the same with me at home on lead , it seems diffrent to normal puppy naughtiness :blink: its like she is fighting me all the time ?? she is sooooo independent and dosent really "bond" with you ???

i can not let her off lead in a public place as she just goes off , she has a very short attention span , luckily i have a friend with a 4 acre field i use to let her loose and a decent sized back garden , she will play "fetch" with me at home but when in the field i may as well not be there :- " she will be looking for me sometimes but not too botherd if you know what i mean :blink:

after she has been playing / rabbiting a while she will return when she is called .

i agree with you that i am doing her a disservice by showing her when she is not "on form" just dont know if she is playing me up OR this is how she is and i just have to wait .

she is worth waiting for so i dont mind too much , just out of intrest do you know of any handlers ? as i say she is entred at Leeds and i thought i may take her and see how she went with someone else , just so i can see if its her playing me up if she behaves for someone else :blink:

 

[quintessence]

I wonder if she would enjoy going to dog training as opposed to ringcraft. This has worked beautifully for my friend's Springer, the people at our local club are used to wayward show dogs turning up and seem to bring them on very nicely. There is also less stress on you, no-one's watching you because they all have their own dog to look after. My friend took a BOB two weeks ago and I wouldn't have said he was the same dog, his ring manners are much better. (In addition he can do down and stay, handler out of sight, but that's just showing off) )

I know only too well what you are going through Sharon, but my problem with Sparky is a little different, if only they would hold shows in my lounge he would be unstoppable.

Jenny

 

[saraquele]

(w00t) i agree , i should video her movement in the garden and take it to show the judge when im in the ring (w00t)

its a good idea about training as opposed to ring craft , Bliss can "sit" but thats about it , only cos i havent taught her anything else :lol:

 

[kris]

if she isnt paying you much attention then maybe its cos theres more interesting things going on around her.you have to make sure theyre focused on you and that their attention is focused on you.if you saw little razzle i think youd be surprised at her!for a jack she isnt normal!she focuses on me all the time.she follows me to the loo and if shes off the lead she constantly watches where i am and makes sure shes got me in her sights all the time.she never goes too far away and yet i havent done any training with her.i didnt let her off the lead until i was sure shed watch me and follow me and wouldnt run off.i adore her and she adores me. :wub: its a two way street.she gets lots of cuddles and attention and so she wants to be with me and wants to please me.we both enjoy each others company and of course she wants to be with me cos she enjoys it.hubs is same when hes showing a dog for someone else.the dogs invariable adore him and yet he spends little time with them apart from at shows and when hes first training them for showing.he never chastises them(apart from show training) and its always fun time with him so the dogs enjoy being with him.if they do something wrong either the owner or myself would do the correcting.( i had a professional handler handle a dog for me for a few years as he got the best out of the dog and he worked with the same principles,and he was a very well known pro handler)i dont know whos going to leeds hun cos i dont show any more so ive lost touch with a lot of the people i used to know.isnt there anyone here who could take her in for you?theyd need to meet her beforehand and to do a bit of show training with her. it could be that what jenny says might work.sometimes a bit of training where theres no showing involved will work.also if she isnt focused on you a bit of training where she has to focus on you would help.she has to watch and listen to you and focus on what youre doing.at the moment she isnt focusing on anything but enjoying herself and having fun! :lol: we had to do that with the dobermann male i mentioned above who we did nothing with for 2 years.maybe Bliss is just going through a stage where she wont cooperate or maybe she needs taking out of the ring for a while.not every dog is ready to show when you want to show them! wish you lived nearer so i could watch what shes doing and maybe help more.

 

[seaspot_run]

If this were my dog I'd try one of two things. See if she does better with someone else showing her OR go to obedience class instead of ringcraft for awhile. It sounds like she just doesn't respect you and knows you can't give her a solid correction in the show ring. Either that or she's scatterbrained and unfocused, and obedience training will help with that as well (as will maturity--we HOPE).

Regardless, you do her no favors when you have her seen so often at less than her best.

As it's not expected of a UK show Whippet that they must hit the end of the lead and go like an Alsatian or a Hungarian Pointer on crack, I don't see why you can't just teach her gait properly by your side on a loose training lead and collar as if you were preparing her for obedience competition. The "fast" speed for heeling is sufficient to show conformation gait.

I have had a couple of VERY headstrong young Whippets that I was only able to show on a chain training collar while they were youngsters. I got a pretty gold-plated one so that it looked fancy, but it was still a chain training collar, nonetheless. Without that ability to give them a collar correction, they would have just tried to chase the dog in front of them. Not a pretty sight. But some of these dogs ended up being among my most pleasurable to show as mature adults because they still had plenty of energy and pep. It's much nicer to try to train a Whippet to hold back than to try to jolly a sullen, sulky, balky one who doesn't want to go. So, there's your silver lining, if you will have it.

Karen Lee

 

[saraquele]

ive tried EVERY trick in the book to get her to focus on me from day 1 , special treats / toys / cuddles etc for when she does good , jax did have a play around with her at stafford and agrees she has a very short attention span :blink:

she is into everything , is never really still , a very busy puppy :teehee:

she loves her cuddles off me and we have one to one time etc , she is very easily distracted and if i give her tit bits she will be intrested for a few minuets then off doing what she is doing again

i think i will see if i can get some one professional or a lot more experienced than me to show her at Leeds then if she is naughty for them i will pull her for a while , prhaps take her to the odd , local open show but leave the champs alone for this year :blink:

i wish you lived closer too , i could do with someone elses opinion , an outsider looking in can often spot whats going wrong :thumbsup: if anything

 

[saraquele]

If this were my dog I'd try one of two things.  See if she does better with someone else showing her OR go to obedience class instead of ringcraft for awhile. It sounds like she just doesn't respect you and knows you can't give her a solid correction in the show ring.  Either that or she's scatterbrained and unfocused, and obedience training will help with that as well (as will maturity--we HOPE).
Regardless, you do her no favors when you have her seen so often at less than her best.

As it's not expected of a UK show Whippet that they must hit the end of the lead and go like an Alsatian or a Hungarian Pointer on crack, I don't see why you can't just teach her gait properly by your side on a loose training lead and collar as if you were preparing her for obedience competition.  The "fast" speed for heeling is sufficient to show conformation gait.

I have had a couple of VERY headstrong young Whippets that I was only able to show on a chain training collar while they were youngsters.  I got a pretty gold-plated one so that it looked fancy, but it was still a chain training collar, nonetheless. Without that ability to give them a collar correction, they would have just tried to chase the dog in front of them.  Not a pretty sight.  But some of these dogs ended up being among my most pleasurable to show as mature adults because they still had plenty of energy and pep. It's much nicer to try to train a Whippet to hold back than to try to jolly a sullen, sulky, balky one who doesn't want to go.  So, there's your silver lining, if you will have it.

Karen Lee

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i totally agree with you on several points (w00t)

1) i do not feel she has a great deal of respect :- " she is spoiled and lives the life of riley :b but she dosent get away with everything , i do have rules and at home , as a dog , she is great .

2) i think :blink: she is more scatter brained and unfocused

3) i agree with you as well that id rather have her like this than no intrest as you say when she is 2 she will show like a trooper :thumbsup:

i think i will go with obedience training , will see if i can get anyone to try her at leeds than pull her from the ring for a while

many thanks for all your advice , all of you :huggles:

 

[kris]

just had a thought.when you take her in the field and shes tearing round looking for bunnies,maybe shes associating this with bunnies when shes on grass in the ring at a champ show?is she the same at indoor shows?also by doing this youre making yourself less interesting than running round having fun.you have to find out what makes her tick.different horses for different courses.she might be food focussed,or whatever.jac just said to me get a rabbitskin and play with her so that you are made more interesting as you initiate the play and shes going to concentrate on you cos you have what she wants.dont use it to rag by the way.has she chased bunnies or actually caught them?

 

[saraquele]

just had a thought.when you take her in the field and shes tearing round looking for bunnies,maybe shes associating this with bunnies when shes on grass in the ring at a champ show?is she the same at indoor shows?also by doing this youre making yourself less interesting than running round having fun.you have to find out what makes her tick.different horses for different courses.she might be food focussed,or whatever.jac just said to me get a rabbitskin and play with her so that you are made more interesting as you initiate the play and shes going to concentrate on you cos you have what she wants.dont use it to rag by the way.

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she is the same indoors , she just gets soooo excited by the other dogs that all calm thoughts and me are way out the window :- " im looking after my friends springer for 2 weeks , starting monday , im wondering if a playmate at home may make other dogs less intresting at shows ? she meets lots of dogs on walks and literally does back flips on the lead to play with them but as i say i cant let her off in public , even then , say she was really intrested in playing with another dog , if i let her off she would then ignore the other dog and bugger off :lol:

when at 12 weeks old i let bliss , her mum and her bro off the lead , elliot and jan stayed close and bliss just ran into the woods on her own , totally not phased that her mum and bro had left her , took me ages to get her back :- "

your gonna have to come for a brew one day :thumbsup:

 

[kris]

will do!well bring razzy roo for a visit too!both me and jac have ideas that we think will work.ill pm you. :thumbsup:

 

[Seraphina]

I had dogs like that. :b I found that stopping to show for a while did not help, if anything it made it worse. The best thing was to give them just the right amount of exercise before the show. With my Danes it was 8km slow canter with my horse. But if you overtire dog he will most likely not move at all (done that too).

Not being able to let Bliss run free is probably part of the problem. Could you run her with bicycle? Or take her somewhere fenced?

I would walk her as much as possible before going in the ring. First let her sniff as much as she wants to, then say OK enough and we are working, And just practice going up and down until she settles. :luck: :luck: :luck:

 

[saraquele]

will do!well bring razzy roo for a visit too!both me and jac have ideas that we think will work.ill pm you. :thumbsup:

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Bliss would LOVE to play with Razzle :wub:

your welcome anytime , i take it your bringing lead weights for her feet :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[saraquele]

I had dogs like that.  :b   I found that stopping to show for a while did not help, if anything it made it worse.  The best thing was to give them just the right amount of exercise before the show.  With my Danes it was 8km slow canter with my horse.  But if you overtire dog he will most likely not move at all (done that too).

Not being able to let Bliss run free is probably part of the problem.  Could you run her with bicycle?  Or take her somewhere fenced? 

I would walk her as much as possible before going in the ring.  First let her sniff as much as she wants to, then say OK enough and we are working,   And just practice going up and down until she settles.  :luck:   :luck:   :luck:

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she does go to a fenced field , 4 acres , apprrox 4 times a week , depending on weather and gets a good lead walk every day , well again depending on weather , when i dont go to the field she has a flexi lead / long line that she can be on too .

plus i try to have 3, 15 mins sessions with her a day working her brain :lol:

ie playing fetch , hiding the ball , hiding treats , i will start to do more obedience with her and the person who has the field is also a behaviourist , ive spoken to her but she hasnt seen her in action so im going to have a lesson with her too :thumbsup:

lucky you being able to take your dogs out with the horse :wub: what a dream :wub:

 

[Seraphina]

I had dogs like that.  :b   I found that stopping to show for a while did not help, if anything it made it worse.  The best thing was to give them just the right amount of exercise before the show.  With my Danes it was 8km slow canter with my horse.  But if you overtire dog he will most likely not move at all (done that too).

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lucky you being able to take your dogs out with the horse :wub: what a dream :wub:

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That was sometime ago. At present I live in suburb and none of my friends would contemplaint to let me near their horse - just in case I fall off. Maybe just as well, I would need a ladder to get into the saddle. :b

Can you take Bliss for free run on the day of the show? My Stella (7 months old now) also gets now and then excited and prances around little bit in the ring. It is not easy to get the ballance right between the dog being sluggish or too excited. In the end it is easier to calm down dog with high spirits than the other way around.

 

[saraquele]

sometimes it would be possible , depending on the weather to start with , we do mud here very well (w00t) and time , usually having to leave home early to get to the show dosent leave a great deal of time for walkies in the morning :- "

i do preferr having a loopy one than a sluggish one , as you say with time and patience a crazy one will mature and chill out where as i dont think you can ever get a sluggish one going :thumbsup: